Headlights

Questions about purchasing bicycles and parts

Headlights

Postby shaneo92 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:04 pm

My new work schedule has me training early morning or late evening and I'm looking for a light that will provide me with enough light to see obstacles at up to 60km/h.

I currently have a Cateye HL-EL530 which isn't a bad light but it doesn't give as much range as id like and once I get going debris and potholes seem to appear out of know where .

I should add that I'm cycling on the road and I'm not looking to blind drivers, I just want to be able to see where I'm going at my normal riding pace. It seems a lot of lights out there provide way too much power or not enough...

I looked at the Magishine MJ-880 but it seems to be too much and the MJ-838 I was told wouldn't give a wide enough spread.

I have a budget up to $200, let me know your thoughts.
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by BNA » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:28 pm

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Headlights

Postby paladin » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:28 pm

Shane,

I just went through this same process. I also had a 530. Good light but as soon as dark wet roads with no lam posts not very effective.

Did a lot of reading and just received my new Ay Ups.

Went outside and compared Ay up to 530. Like comparing torch to a match!

Currently 10% discount as well.

About 270 delivered. Spend the extra $70 you won't regret it.
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Re: Headlights

Postby elStado » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:48 pm

I also bought a pair of Ay Up lights after stuffing around with cheaper and less effective solutions.

Yes they might seem expensive, but they are great quality, very bright and an Aussie company. Fast delivery, great customer service and no questions asked warranty replacements = too easy!

These the most popular: http://www.ayup-lights.com/products/78/

Get the lights with either a intermediate beam, these are best for all round road cycling. Aim the lights down at the road instead of eye-level and you won't be blinding anyone.

There's been multiple threads on this topic already, do a quick search and you will find much more info and discussion on the topic.
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Headlights

Postby whitey » Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:26 pm

I bought a cheaper light then got some Ay Ups. Money well spent for me-especially now it's so dark.

Well designed and functional. Had a problem with the charger after 12 months and Ay Up handled the warranty quickly and efficiently.

There is a new brand called Bikeray that's worth looking at that's a bit cheaper.
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Re: Headlights

Postby Mulger bill » Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:56 am

Yep, AyUps. Don't just be seen, be respected.

The only thing that could be considered a negative it that the mounts stay on the bike when you take the lights off but seeing as they are low profile anyway...
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Re: Headlights

Postby NhiTrac » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:49 am

I've always been curious with my MS P7 equivalent having an output rating of 1000 lumens, compared to say Ayups which are around 600 or 800 lumens (I think?). I wonder if the P7 in real life is actually less and the Ayups are actually better...

Can anyone that has done an upgrade from a P7 unit confirm this?

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Re: Headlights

Postby wardie » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:06 am

I use Bike Ray lights and they are perfect for riding in the pitch black.

http://www.bikerayaus.com.au/bikeray3.htm
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Re: Headlights

Postby MattyK » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:48 am

Magicshine/clones with P7s put out about 550 lumens in the real world (calibrated integrating sphere).

Comparative data (uncalibrated/arbitrary units):
http://reviews.mtbr.com/lights-shootout ... asurements
Ay-up 2010: 34
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Re: Headlights

Postby jacks1071 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:24 am

MattyK wrote:Magicshine/clones with P7s put out about 550 lumens in the real world (calibrated integrating sphere).

Comparative data (uncalibrated/arbitrary units):
http://reviews.mtbr.com/lights-shootout ... asurements
Ay-up 2010: 34
Magicshine 2010: 37


Many of the new MTB lights are TOO BRIGHT for use on the road, I know there is an Australian Standard for a low-beam headlight - I bet some of these new lights would be illegal for road usage in their high-power mode. Blinding an on-comming vehicle is not going to increase your level of safety.

For me, Ayup's are the best lights going. Mine are several years old, still on the origional batteries and they are Australian, what more could you want? For hard-core mountain biking maybe you'd appreciate a brighter light but I've never been left wanting off-road with the Ayup's although 99% of my Ayup usage is on the road.

I do have a set of the Ayup 40% brighter version which are over-kill for road usage and they reduce your battery run time somewhat so I wouldn't recommend that option except for MTB usage.
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Re: Headlights

Postby MattyK » Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:42 pm

@jacks1071 - I was replying to the post two above mine, not implying that "more power = better". Basically the point is "never trust manufacturer's claims, unless they have independent data to back it up" - google "swhs" if you want some independent info.

FWIW my magicshines are also several years old, on the original batteries, and two of them cost less than one Ayup...

What you DO with the lumens is more important than how many you have. In Australia the only law I'm aware of is that you must have a white front light that can be seen from at least 50 metres. So, no upper limit on output, and no restriction on where you throw that light or how it is perceived.

Germany has the right idea with laws defining the actual beam shape, and the amount that is allowed to spill upwards, much like an automotive low beam (google StVZO). My Magicshines will scare drivers into submission from about 100 metres, which to a certain extent is good as noone pulls out in front of me, however I'm sure it's irritating to look at. I'm sure Ayups are in the same boat with their symmetical beam. On the other hand the HIDs on my BMW put out about 7000 lumens and aren't the least bit dazzling due to the broad beam and strict upper cutoff.
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Re: Headlights

Postby NhiTrac » Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:51 pm

MattyK: Really appreciate that link mate. Some great information in there. Though I'm a bit confused with the table as one column has 'claimed lumens', then next to it, it has ' measured lux' which I understand are a different unit of light measurement? Wouldve been great if it actually had 'measured lumens' etc... But I'm probably understanding this wrong.

Anyway, going from the table my cheap MS P7 copy is actually almost twice as bright as the 2010 Ayups (62 lux vs 34 lux)... I understand that brighter is not always better, but are there any other examples of why one would spend almost $300 for a set of lights, with the only thing going for it is it's certified water resistance and that its Aussie made?

Not bagging out Ayups, but i was seriously considering them until the above 'Bike Lights Shootout' article. Just want some solid evidence that my $300 are being spent in the correct area.

Why I want this information: I commute 35km each way along a motorway in total darkness during winter at ~32km/hr average... Though at times I do sit at 45km/hr for a while with top speed +55km/hr.

My current P7 system is good, but not great. Hence why I was considering the Ayups.

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Re: Headlights

Postby MattyK » Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:17 pm

What they've basically done is use a room as an uncalibrated integrating sphere. So the "measured lux" should be proportional to the total (real, not manufacturer stated) lumen output.

This figure has nothing to do with the way manufacturers rate lux, which is an indication of the (maximum) beam intensity at a distance of 10m.

With the jump between years I'm a little nervous about the consistency of readings from one year to the next... (Also note that the current year Magicshine uses a Cree XM-L, not a SSC P7 - this would account for a small increase in output)
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Re: Headlights

Postby shaneo92 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:53 pm

paladin wrote:Shane,

I just went through this same process. I also had a 530. Good light but as soon as dark wet roads with no lam posts not very effective.

Did a lot of reading and just received my new Ay Ups.

Went outside and compared Ay up to 530. Like comparing torch to a match!

Currently 10% discount as well.

About 270 delivered. Spend the extra $70 you won't regret it.


Just been looking at the Ay Ups, would you select the 40% brighter lightset or is this overkill?
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Re: Headlights

Postby paladin » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:04 pm

shaneo92 wrote:
paladin wrote:Shane,

I just went through this same process. I also had a 530. Good light but as soon as dark wet roads with no lam posts not very effective.

Did a lot of reading and just received my new Ay Ups.

Went outside and compared Ay up to 530. Like comparing torch to a match!

Currently 10% discount as well.

About 270 delivered. Spend the extra $70 you won't regret it.


Just been looking at the Ay Ups, would you select the 40% brighter lightset or is this overkill?


During my research there were two schools of thought...

As I would hate to have to regret buying lights not powerful enough I went the extra 40%. This way I have the option of "high" or "low"
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Re: Headlights

Postby Jeff » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:12 pm

+ 1 for the Ay Ups.

Brought these for last winter and they have been great. My commute is %80 cycleway going home at night and they light up the track brilliantly. Other riders though seem to use much stronger lights ( like a cars high beam ) just depends how strong you want them and how big a battery you want to carry.
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Re: Headlights

Postby shaneo92 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:25 pm

paladin wrote:During my research there were two schools of thought...

As I would hate to have to regret buying lights not powerful enough I went the extra 40%. This way I have the option of "high" or "low"


Thought that would be the better option...

One more question. Where does the battery mount is it a bottle cage type of mount or just to the frame?
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Re: Headlights

Postby paladin » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:44 pm

shaneo92 wrote:
paladin wrote:During my research there were two schools of thought...

As I would hate to have to regret buying lights not powerful enough I went the extra 40%. This way I have the option of "high" or "low"


Thought that would be the better option...

One more question. Where does the battery mount is it a bottle cage type of mount or just to the frame?


My only real concern is the change to the Handle Bar/ Stem furniture. Garmin off to side. And need to remove lights to remove Garmin so as to upload to Strave.

Ph well, what price safety?

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Re: Headlights

Postby shaneo92 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:54 pm

paladin wrote:
My only real concern is the change to the Handle Bar/ Stem furniture. Garmin off to side. And need to remove lights to remove Garmin so as to upload to Strave.

Ph well, what price safety?

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I was worried about that as well, might be good enough reason to get one of the Barfly mounts for the Garmin :D
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Re: Headlights

Postby shaneo92 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:11 pm

I just ordered the Ay Ups.

Thanks for your input.
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Headlights

Postby paladin » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:14 pm

Barfly or k-Edge Do like the aluminum look of kedge.

53$ seems a bit less safety more must have shiny thing
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Headlights

Postby paladin » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:15 pm

My pleasure!
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Headlights

Postby queequeg » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:48 pm

shaneo92 wrote:
paladin wrote:During my research there were two schools of thought...

As I would hate to have to regret buying lights not powerful enough I went the extra 40%. This way I have the option of "high" or "low"


Thought that would be the better option...

One more question. Where does the battery mount is it a bottle cage type of mount or just to the frame?


Two sets mounted:

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Re: Headlights

Postby DavidTomic » Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:38 am

queequeg wrote:Two sets mounted:


Overkill?
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Re: Headlights

Postby SmellyTofu » Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:59 am

I did the same thing but found it better with a set on the helmet
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Headlights

Postby queequeg » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:33 am

DavidTomic wrote:
queequeg wrote:Two sets mounted:


Overkill?


Nope. One set of narrow beam (the red ones). One set of intermediate. I run one set on half power on the morning and at full power coming home. Even with two sets, plus me in an EL vest, as well as a blinky light on the front forks, I still get SMIDSY from time to time. However, on the whole most people think I am motorbike or a car with a missing headlight, and they think twice before doing crazy stuff in front of me.

I see many people with two sets, but they have one on the bars and one on the helmet. I just keep them both on the bars
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