Disc road frame for commuting

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Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Reman » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:05 pm

Currently commuting on a flat bar roadie with v-brakes. Would like to move to a disc drop bar roadie to address some of the current limitations of rim brakes in the wet and effective top tube on a flat bar is short compared to same ETT on a drop bar, I'm 187cm tall FWIW. Did some different online road bike fit calcs and they came out with 56, 58 and 60cm ETTs with 130, 110 and 110mm stem, so I guess the 58cm ETT and 120mm stem would be a good mix of relaxed vs sporty geometry.

I'm interested in building a bike from the ground up and I was originally looking at a Dengfu or Hongfu CX carbon frame, but the lack of pannier and mud guard mount points made me look elsewhere.

Found the Salsa Vaya and Surly Disc Trucker frames, they are pretty much identical but I found a place with the Surly frame for about $485 shipped. I also looked at 29er MTB frames, but the geometry doesn't look fantastic for use as a drop bar, even the Surly looks a little relaxed.

Only issue is the Surly (and Salsa) frames are made for loaded touring so they both come in at over 2kg's just for the frame and another 1kg for the forks.

Does anyone know of any alternative disc road frames that may fit the bill for less than $1k? Or am I better off just sticking with the Surly?
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by BNA » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:47 pm

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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby jasonc » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:47 pm

I know you want to build, but what about one of these
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Reman » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:01 pm

jasonc wrote:I know you want to build, but what about one of these


I should probably mention that this is one part of a project to build a Campy Athena-equipped disc-braked drop bar commuter with self-built wheels for $2k. :shock:

Yes, I am probably mad.
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby MichaelB » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:19 pm

Look at some of the smaller UK frame makers such as Genesis. Kenisis is also another one that makes disc frames.

By having mudguard and rack mounts, you are consigning yourself to mainly touring frames.

My Kona Honky Inc has mudguard mounts, but not rack mounts (well, they can double as rack mounts ..). The only other road based double disc frame that has mudguard mounts is the Volagi Liscio, but it does not have rack mounts. They can be bought as a F&F as well, and should be available in Aus in September.

Oh, and yes you are mad.

Other option is a custom Ti frame from China, that can be had for under $1k. Look up Xian (I think), and you should get plenty of hits
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby MattyK » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:29 pm

I thought flat bars were usually longer ETT than roadies?? My Avanti Blade (large size) is 596mm, with a 110mm stem.
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Nobody » Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:23 pm

MattyK wrote:I thought flat bars were usually longer ETT than roadies??
You are correct.

@Reman:

This cheap disc frame.
Image
http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/FRPXKV2/pla ... _out_frame
Matched with this cheap disc fork:
Image
http://www.aebike.com/Dimension-Cross-f ... 11038.html

I have a Surly CC with the above fork. If I could do it all again I may have gone for the above combination.
Last edited by Nobody on Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby lethoso » Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:13 pm

Reman wrote:Only issue is the Surly (and Salsa) frames are made for loaded touring so they both come in at over 2kg's just for the frame and another 1kg for the forks.


For a commuter this isn't such an issue. Once you have a pannier of stuff on the bike an extra kg in a frame is neither here nor there really. Makes the roadbike feel that much better when I ride it on the weekend too :P

FWIW I'm happy with my (non-disc) cross check. The other frame I looked at getting was a Soma double-cross (also available in disc), but I was unable to find somewhere without exorbient shipping when I was looking (about 2 years ago now, so that's probably changed).
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby find_bruce » Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:30 pm

Nobody wrote:You are correct.

@Reman:

This cheap disc frame.
Image
http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/FRPXKV2/pla ... _out_frame
Matched with this cheap disc fork:
Image
http://www.aebike.com/Dimension-Cross-f ... 11038.html

I have a Surly CC with the above fork. If I could do it all again I may have gone for the above combination.


Any particular reason you recommend the dimension fork rather than the on one fork ?
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Uncle Just » Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:42 pm

I built up a drop bar, disc braked CX/roadie using a Kinesis Tripster alu frame from the UK. The fork design has been revised and is carbon. All up cost using many parts I already had came to roughly 1.5k. I only had to buy some BB7s and some other minor parts. Takes 700c and 26" wheels. Rides well and comes with provision for a rear rack and guards. Requires a minimum 1.5" tyre when using 26' wheels to keep BB height up. I would recommend it as a solid basis for a commuting /light touring frame.
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby jasonc » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:00 pm

could help a google found this
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Reman » Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:47 am

MattyK wrote:I thought flat bars were usually longer ETT than roadies?? My Avanti Blade (large size) is 596mm, with a 110mm stem.


Maybe I miswrote.

A frame used with flat bars has exactly the same ETT as a with drop bars. With the same stem length and saddle setup the position of the hoods means that that the reach to them is further.

My flat bar frame was the largest for the model at 58cm ETT, which for me is too short. But I reckon 58cm ETT in a drop bar would be perfect.
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Reman » Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:02 am

MichaelB wrote:Look at some of the smaller UK frame makers such as Genesis. Kenisis is also another one that makes disc frames.


Thanks, I'll look into those.

MichaelB wrote:By having mudguard and rack mounts, you are consigning yourself to mainly touring frames.


Very much true, After using panniers I never want to go back to a back pack. I had high hopes that I could find a CX frame that would fit the bill, they had the geometry and discs but no mount points :? There just doesn't seem to be much (frames that is) aimed at a fast commuter.

MichaelB wrote:Oh, and yes you are mad.


I took a leap of faith and got a Brooks saddle after reading all the positive reviews, now I'll add my voice to those who love them.

Campy stuff seems to be in a similar boat, I think you would see a boat load more of it around if the cheapest bike you can find equipped with it wasn't $4k :roll: Then again some people may choke on their espresso if they saw my final build in the flesh :mrgreen:
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Reman » Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:05 am

Nobody wrote:
@Reman:

This cheap disc frame.
http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/FRPXKV2/pla ... _out_frame
Matched with this cheap disc fork:
http://www.aebike.com/Dimension-Cross-f ... 11038.html

I have a Surly CC with the above fork. If I could do it all again I may have gone for the above combination.


Thanks, I'll have a look at those as well. What did you build it up for and how does it go? Any chance of some pics?
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby thomashouseman » Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:25 am

Good luck with your search. I like others on this forum found the Kona Honky Inc's to be a good compromise between road & commuting etc.

I've put panniers on mine and would never go back to backpack commuting, but yes, disc frames with pannier/guard mounts are few and far between.


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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Nobody » Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:27 am

find_bruce wrote:Any particular reason you recommend the dimension fork rather than the on one fork ?
You may notice that you can never seem to get a Kaffenback fork with disc. Also the axle to crown of the Dimension is a match.
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Nobody » Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:35 am

Reman wrote:What did you build it up for and how does it go? Any chance of some pics?
I built it up as a general purpose road/commuter bike. It does everything it needs to well. I'm not even sure I'd put a disc on the back if I had the chance to change everything as the extra aero drag and weight of a rear disc is probably not worth it for me. Pics? It's not a pretty bike (function before form). I might PM you a pic later.
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby find_bruce » Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:38 am

find_bruce wrote:Any particular reason you recommend the dimension fork rather than the on one fork ?
Nobody wrote:You may notice that you can never seem to get a Kaffenback fork with disc. Also the axle to crown of the Dimension is a match.

Thanks Nobody, but I am still confused as this kaffenback fork is showing as "lots in stock" in the disc only option (no stock of disc and canti) and the dimensions otherwise seem to be a match.
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Nobody » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:14 am

find_bruce wrote:Thanks Nobody, but I am still confused as this kaffenback fork is showing as "lots in stock" in the disc only option (no stock of disc and canti) and the dimensions otherwise seem to be a match.
Yeah, I think it's just my mistake. I've been going on the pic and not looking further, sorry. Just get that one then. Simple. :)
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Reman » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:23 pm

Ok, going through the options.

Surly Disc Trucker : pros - good price (~$500), has all mount points (discs, panniers, mudguards), nice colour, ETT >= 58cm, good seat tube angle (72.5), built like tank; cons - heavy (>2kg frame, >1kg forks)!

Planet X Kaffenback : pros - cheap, has all mount points; cons - heavy, looks a bit blechy (the orange is approaching nice), largest size has ETT < 58cm.
Genesis Croix de Fer : pros - has all mount points; cons - heavy, only white, largest size has ETT < 58cm
(Genesis have other bikes like the disc Vapour, but it doesn't look like you can buy them as a frame only.)
Kinesis Crosslight PRO6 : pros - has all mount points, nice colours (red!), ETT of 58cm, light (frame 1.8kg, carbon forks 0.5kg); cons - slightly steeper STA (73), more expensive (~$600)

All of that seems to boil down to Surly Disc Trucker vs Kinesis Crosslight PRO6 and TBH the red PRO6 frame is very appealing, even if it costs slightly more.
Image vs Image

:?:

Edit: Pro for Surly which has chain stay disc mounts, kinesis has seat stay disc mount.
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby jasonc » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:28 pm

Reman wrote:Ok, going through the options.
:?:


what about the kenesis tripster?
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Nobody » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:40 pm

Steel should give a better ride.
Durability of steel and failure mode (for a Surly anyway) are considered better.
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Reman » Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:25 pm

jasonc wrote:what about the kenesis tripster?


Ah, I missed it as it's not on the main kinesis site. The Tripster appears to be identical to the PRO6 frame except with the chain stay disc mounts. However CRC has it discontinued and PBK has limited sizes, so when I go to purchase (3-9months) it may not be available.
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby jasonc » Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:30 pm

Reman wrote:
jasonc wrote:what about the kenesis tripster?


Ah, I missed it as it's not on the main kinesis site. The Tripster appears to be identical to the PRO6 frame except with the chain stay disc mounts. However CRC has it discontinued and PBK has limited sizes, so when I go to purchase (3-9months) it may not be available.


I liked it because it was alloy rather than steel (I know that's not preferred by some of you here....) and therefore lighter. I do climbing on my commute and would prefer as light as I can make it.... that's my opinion. this isn't my thread....
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Reman » Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:41 pm

Nobody wrote:Steel should give a better ride.
Durability of steel and failure mode (for a Surly anyway) are considered better.


At the moment I am riding an alloy + carbon forks and the ride is pretty good (even with 23c GP4000s (AT) 100/120PSI) that's why the Kinesis looks pretty good to me, a known quantity F&F material that I'm happy with. Unless the steel option is stiffer (especially around the BB) I can't see any advantages going that way for ride quality. Frame stiffness was the original reason why I first looked at carbon and then Ti frames.
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby AndrewBurns » Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:55 pm

I got the boardman CX pro and it really is a nice frame/bike. You could always buy a complete one and sell the bits you don't want to recover some money? The frame and forks are identical between all of the Boardman CX varients so you could get the cheapest one and sell everything off, it's more work but I guess you could get the frame and forks down to the $500-600 mark?
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