Disc road frame for commuting

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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby JBark » Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:19 pm

Ha, I've had those Hope Pro 2 Evo hubs in the cart at CRC more times than I can count. Just need the warranty on the bike to run out, so I can justify buying upgrades for it. :)
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by BNA » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:04 pm

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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby baabaa » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:04 pm

Go the hopes, I think they are ideal for commuting being so loud you can ditch the bell and just freewheel a bit when you see a zombie ped or a little white fluffy dog.
Out of my hubs, XT disc are soft, DT 370 sealed disc medium, white industries trials freewheel* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhWxFEN1b6k is just loud and the pro3 hopes are close* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dju9ubLI ... re=related ( the hopes are non disc but seem to spin just as well as the WI on philwood disc hubs)
* Note. These are not my vids, I am not that anal.
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby barefoot » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:00 pm

barefoot wrote:I reckon I can build my disc-braked road bike for $1k plus a frame. Either I'm planning on using lower-grade bits than Reman, or I'm going to wheel and deal harder. Or I could be kidding myself :-)


Oops.

Looks like I'm off to a good start... on a bike that I'm don't really have spousal approval on for another 2 years :oops:

* WTB Laserdisc Lite hubs. WTB site has them for US$275 R, US$180 F. Velogear.com.au currently has them for A$99 /set. Would be rude not to, I figured. 32 hole... I like lots of spokes, so that's fine by me. Means I can use a lighter rim.
* Velocity Aerohead OC. Velocity store has them for US$72.99 each. Upfront Cycles (just out of Adelaide) has 32h purple ones for A$22.95 each if you buy 4. I really like purple, and I'm sure I'll find a use for the other two :lol: . Assym rims on disc hubs is a fundamentally good idea... and allows me to use equal length spokes both sides, front and rear! Which brings me to...
* DT Comp spokes. Two sets at A$23 /36 from CRC. Apparently that's 17% less than RRP, but it's certainly cheaper than the A$1.50/spoke my LBS used to charge for Comps. Did I mention that I can use 32 equal length spokes on each wheel? Couple of spares... shouldn't need them if I build properly, but whatever.

And that, boys and girls, is a couple of hours wheelbuild time short of a disturbingly light, rather blingy, ridiculously cheap wheelset for this disc brake road bike that I shouldn't be building until my next significant birthday in 2015.

Rear hub: 265g
Front hub: 155g
Rims: 418g each
Spokes: ~200g /wheel
Nipples: ~65g total
----------------------
TOTAL: 1721g... which is pretty reasonable for a 700c disc wheelset that cost $200 :mrgreen:

Oops again :oops:

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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby JustJames » Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:20 am

Happy birthday Tim!


Remember, it's always better to beg forgiveness than to ask permission. :twisted:
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby MichaelB » Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:39 am

That's good buying, but purple ...... :shock:

Definitely need pics !!!
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Mugglechops » Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:59 pm

JBark wrote:I see the Novatec disc hubs mentioned a few times in the thread, thought I'd give my impression after commuting on them (D812) with my Merida CX4 for the the past 5 months/4000km.

1) They seem to spin incredibly well. Yeah, totally subjective, but spin the wheels with the bike upside down and they go for ages and ages.
2) The freehub is completely knackered after the winter rains here in Perth. Not exactly what I was expecting with a CX bike, and quite disappointed. Been getting quite a bit of slipping for the past week or so, took it apart this weekend and the pawls and the spots they sit in are completely corroded. Bit better after cleaning, but still not perfect.

Not even sure I'm going to bother getting it replaced under warranty, if it's just going to fail that fast again. Even the 10 year old Alivio hub in my MTB handled last year's rain without a complaint. I'll probably just use a buffing wheel on my dremel to remove/smooth out the corrosion, clean it up spotless, and run it until it fails. Then replace it with a Shimano XT hub later on, or something that can actually handle some rain. Just looked up those Bitex hubs, seems like people are quite happy with them, and the prices look to be very good.


I have 8000kms on my CX4 with the novatecs and haven't touched them. That includes a fair bit of wet riding too and some mud.
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby jasonc » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:06 am

Mugglechops wrote:I have 8000kms on my CX4 with the novatecs and haven't touched them. That includes a fair bit of wet riding too and some mud.


we just need pro-lite to do a 700c disc wheelset
my como's have about 6000kms on them
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Mulger bill » Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:22 pm

jasonc wrote:we just need pro-lite to do a 700c disc wheelset


YES PLEASE!!!

C'mon Deon, talk to HQ. Something sturdy in 28h would be nice... :D
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby jasonc » Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:27 pm

Mulger bill wrote:
jasonc wrote:we just need pro-lite to do a 700c disc wheelset


YES PLEASE!!!

C'mon Deon, talk to HQ. Something sturdy in 28h would be nice... :D


do you really need a higher spoke count than the como - I'm really hard on my bike/wheels and don't struggle with the spoke count (remembering heavy spokes/hub/rim on the como)
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Mulger bill » Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:31 pm

Dunno, I've got Gavias.

Great wheels but I wouldn't commute on them, not the way I jump gutters.
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby JustJames » Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:53 pm

I'm going to (having a go at) building my own wheels, as a way of combining Campagnolo with discs.

My wheel build will be 32 holes front and rear. No point in worrying about spoke count when looking for strength.

As an aside, I made a start on bolting bits together today. If anybody is interested, check out my build blog, link in my sig, for more.
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Reman » Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:48 am

When you are running discs there is a greater load on spokes, especially the trailing spokes that get hit with something of a drive from the stopping force of the discs transferred via the hub to the spokes then on to the rim and tyre, almost like a backwards drive train.

I would suggest that the minimum spokes for road disc wheels would be 28H front and rear, with a "strong" wheelset being 32H.
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Reman » Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:25 pm

JustJames wrote:I'm going to (having a go at) building my own wheels, as a way of combining Campagnolo with discs.

My wheel build will be 32 holes front and rear. No point in worrying about spoke count when looking for strength.

As an aside, I made a start on bolting bits together today. If anybody is interested, check out my build blog, link in my sig, for more.


Hey James, checked the blog and its looking impressive. Jealous that you get to start to build and I'm going to have to wait until I can secretly purchase required components :wink:

You went with a Veloce group set, 2 questions, why veloce? And was it cheaper to buy as a set and sell the brakes or could you have bought individual bits as cheap?

I'm struggling with that part only because if I buy an Athena group set I would have to flog the brakes (for avid road bb7s) and the brifters (for chorus ultra shift) :?:
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby JustJames » Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:53 pm

Reman wrote:
Hey James, checked the blog and its looking impressive. Jealous that you get to start to build and I'm going to have to wait until I can secretly purchase required components :wink:

You went with a Veloce group set, 2 questions, why veloce? And was it cheaper to buy as a set and sell the brakes or could you have bought individual bits as cheap?

I'm struggling with that part only because if I buy an Athena group set I would have to flog the brakes (for avid road bb7s) and the brifters (for chorus ultra shift) :?:


Thanks for the kind words, Reman.

As this thread - which you started - led to my going down this route in the first place, you really do only have yourself to blame...so suck up that jealousy. :D

Why Veloce? Well, it had to be Campagnolo, and I'm trying to manage costs where I can. I looked at Centaur Red, for the black-and-red- bling but came back to Veloce, and got most of the bling courtesy of red chainring bolts from Cell.

Pricing the gruppo components is a minefield. Ribble had/have/may once again have good deals on groupsets where you pick the bits that you want, but when I wanted to buy, the groupset builder wasn't working. The cost saving by buying the full gruppo and selling the brakes wasn't huge but it was simple...and I'm a big believer in keeping life simple.

I'm hemming and hawing between BB7's and Bengal brakes from Pro-Lite. I know Deon from Pro-Lite is a regular on here, and seems to be a dependable guy, and it seems that the Bengals may be better than the BB7's, but the BB7's are the known option. Bengals may well win out with me as they may be less expensive, slightly, and may be available in black. I need to check whether I can run 140mm rear brake with the Bengals, as they are supplied with a 160mm rotor.

(Just checked CRC...and they are out of stock, but show BB7's at around $19...less than half the price of BB5's :roll: I guess it's easy to list a cheap price when you have no stock to sell! :idea:

Oh, and abandon your plan of buying bike bits in secret. Sooner or later you will want to wheel out n+1...and then you will be BUSTED!

If it's any consolation, I've been enjoying this process so much, I'm already pondering n+2, which may well turn out to be a single speed hard tail 69er. :lol:
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Reman » Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:47 pm

FWIW cheapest I found BB7s is at bike-discount.de at about $150 for 2 ($19 is probably calliper only), saw the site in another thread and thought I'd check the prices. They also seem to do pretty cheap components too. Do you need to go 140mm at the rear, or could you go 160mm? Do you have an idea on when yours will be finished?

I know I'll eventually have to wheel it out, but ATM I'm purchasing with my "own" money and Xmas is coming... :lol: Current build is running at $2,182, but unlike you I'm trying to defy the rules and make this the last N!

Currently the things I am still tossing up is if its worth going to Chorus Ultratorque cranks instead of power torque Athena (long term worth it), if I can justify a $250 3t team handlebar to match the red/black colour scheme (vs the white/black team version) and finally if I should go speedplay instead of m520 SPDs (probably not).
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby JustJames » Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:28 pm

JensonUSA show $130 for a pair of BB7's shipped to Aussie.

My build will prolly come in at around 2/3 of your total. And while I could have bought a Merida CX4 for that sort of money, this has been a much more interesting way of doing it, and a way of spreading the financial hurt a little.

I'd like to have the bike completed in time for the Sydney Spring Cycle, but I'm not sure whether I will make that, because I still need to get my rims (later this week I hope), measure up, order spokes (which I would get around mid Oct) and then build up wheels once the spokes arrive.

Roger Musson is very clear that I shouldn't be trusting manufacturer's measurements of ERD, so if anybody has a measured ERD for DT Swiss R520 rims, I'd be interested to hear from you!

Edited to Add: Red and black bars...no question about it.
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Reman » Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:37 pm

I think I'll need to add Jensons to my list of places to manually check for the best prices before purchasing.

I built my DT Swiss RR585s using the ERD from the DT Swiss website, and it worked out fine.
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby baabaa » Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:53 pm

Also have a look at this lot. Cheap and quick and lots of other stuff you can only get in us

http://www.outsideoutfitters.com/pm-169 ... brake.aspx .
I tend to buy the whole box if I need new rotors or pads as it works out pretty cheap and you then have spare parts on hand

If you are mainly on roading, go the bb7 road( silver) and not the black ( mtn). You can also open up the road wide enough when you are on dirt to avoid dust/ gravel rub but the black/ mtn open even wider so these really suit if it is muddy
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby JustJames » Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:38 pm

@baabaa

I would prefer the darker calipers for reasons of aesthetics. If I understand you correctly, there is no reason why I shouldn't use the MTB versions on a CX build - is that correct?
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Bentnose » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:59 pm

JustJames wrote:@baabaa

I would prefer the darker calipers for reasons of aesthetics. If I understand you correctly, there is no reason why I shouldn't use the MTB versions on a CX build - is that correct?


You'll find the MTB BB7's are compatible with V brake levers and the road ones are compatable with road levers, swapping them around will see poor brake performance ensue.
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Reman » Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:50 am

Yep, it's all about the cable pull ratio.
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby JustJames » Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:30 pm

BB7 Roads it is then!
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby baabaa » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:38 pm

Yes, you could go the mtn if you really must have the black.
I run mtn on the drop bar ss 29er and road on the cx with the same levers (Cane Creek SCR-5). Find no difference in the amount of pull, feel or the performance. Also worth noting the mtn do not come with inline adjusters in the box as they are built for flat bar levers with barrel adjusters. You really do need in line adjusters and worth getting some good ones like…
http://www.jensonusa.com/Brake-Parts-an ... -Adjusters
These seem to last longer than the avid in the box numbers.
I see you have gone down the on one planet x way. Nice bikes (I have a ss canti brake pomp I need to use more),any chance you can run full housing for the rear? For me this makes for a better overall smoother and easy care set up.
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby barefoot » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:22 pm

barefoot wrote:
rjk wrote:might be a mistake on the crc site but $26.67 ea for front and rear, grab them

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=87369


No stock.

Or I would have grabbed them a few days ago :-D

We'll see what happens to the price of that line when stock (supposedly) arrives on October 3.


Ah, I see the ETA of the impossibly cheap BB7 road calipers has been pushed back to November 11.

But now they're down to A$18.66 each.

If we wait long enough, they'll be almost free... and out of stock until next week :-D

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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Bentnose » Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:56 pm

baabaa wrote:Yes, you could go the mtn if you really must have the black.
I run mtn on the drop bar ss 29er and road on the cx with the same levers (Cane Creek SCR-5). Find no difference in the amount of pull, feel or the performance. Also worth noting the mtn do not come with inline adjusters in the box as they are built for flat bar levers with barrel adjusters. You really do need in line adjusters and worth getting some good ones like…
http://www.jensonusa.com/Brake-Parts-an ... -Adjusters
These seem to last longer than the avid in the box numbers.
I see you have gone down the on one planet x way. Nice bikes (I have a ss canti brake pomp I need to use more),any chance you can run full housing for the rear? For me this makes for a better overall smoother and easy care set up.


One question I do have is have you actually tried V brake levers with the MTB BB7's, you would then find the braking superior. I've found the type of setup you use to have spongy brakes when tried with V-brakes, they do work but are spongy compared to the correct lever, haven't tried it with the discs though.
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