Disc road frame for commuting

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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby JustJames » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:06 am

My increasingly-less-hypothetical :D research has let me to Novatec hubs, which are available in 130mm (standard road width) for disc brakes, an can take Campagnolo.

I've emailed OnOne to ask them what the rear dropout width on their Kaffenback frame is.

...and I'm very seriously considering building my own wheels. How hard can it be, right? :shock:
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Chef » Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:51 am

JustJames wrote:My increasingly-less-hypothetical :D research has let me to Novatec hubs, which are available in 130mm (standard road width) for disc brakes, an can take Campagnolo.

I've emailed OnOne to ask them what the rear dropout width on their Kaffenback frame is.

...and I'm very seriously considering building my own wheels. How hard can it be, right? :shock:


Much easier than most think - just takes time and patience.

Read this - the technique is simple http://www.icelord.net/bike/ArtOfWheelbuilding.pdf

Don't waste money on a stand unless you plan on building a lot of wheels - inverted forks and cable ties are the way to go...

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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Reman » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:57 pm

JustJames wrote:My increasingly-less-hypothetical :D research has let me to Novatec hubs, which are available in 130mm (standard road width) for disc brakes, an can take Campagnolo.

I've emailed OnOne to ask them what the rear dropout width on their Kaffenback frame is.

...and I'm very seriously considering building my own wheels. How hard can it be, right? :shock:


Most disc frames are 135mm to accommodate the rotor mount, there are some 130mm disc frames but they are rare as hens teeth and then wheels to fit them are even rarer. As for the Novatec hub, I believe that you can't get a 135mm disc rear hub with a Campy freehub. Though similar to BHS they may be able to do it on request.

As for building your own, I have done one wheelset already and looking forward to the next. I highly recommend it.
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby MichaelB » Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:33 pm

JustJames wrote:My increasingly-less-hypothetical :D research has let me to Novatec hubs, which are available in 130mm (standard road width) for disc brakes, an can take Campagnolo.

I've emailed OnOne to ask them what the rear dropout width on their Kaffenback frame is.

...and I'm very seriously considering building my own wheels. How hard can it be, right? :shock:


If you do want to build a set of wheels and need a 130mm rear hub, let me know.

Have a really set of sweet new Circus Monkey disc hubs that are BNIB. My project thoughts have chnaged hence their sale.

Cheers

Michael B

PS I'm 99% sure the Kaffenback thingo will be 135mm rear though
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby JustJames » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:44 pm

I've just had a mail back from the guys at On One...apparently the Kaffenback frame has 132.5mm rear spacing, and they have successfully used MTB 29er, Alfine (135mm) and standard road (130mm) in the frame. That's an interesting way of dealing with the 130mm vs 135mm sizing!

At this stage I've pretty much decided (so long, hypothetical!) to go ahead with the frame, and build up some wheels using Novatec hubs with Campagnolo freehubs. As Novatec can provide suitable hubs for my requirement in 130 and 135mm width, I guess it makes sense to get the frame first, and then progress from there.

(@MichaelB, if your Circus Monkey hubs can deal with discs and Campagnolo, please drop me a PM.)

Why Campag? Because I like Campag, and because my roadie speaks Italian. No religious war, really. I prefer Campag, but road Shimano for many years and have nothing rude to say about it. I haven't tried SRAM, but have heard good things about it. I know I've recommended Campagnolo a few times in threads in the last few days, but that's only because I think that Euro frames require Campagnolo in order to keep the Universe balanced. :D

At this stage, having followed a suggestion - the Kaffenback frame - in a thread started by somebody else, I prolly qualify from special thread-hijacking prize. :lol:
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby jasonc » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:48 pm

have been scratching my head...

so say you chose the kaffenback frame (or whatever it's called), how would you choose the right bottom bracket/crank?
as an example, it looks like you need a BB30 and associated crank.
with BB30, does that mean you'd have to have a FSA crank rather than a shimano?
And considering you'd be using disc brakes, does that make buying a full groupset not worthwhile?
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby JustJames » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:05 pm

It's a BSA (English) thread BB. This was one of the questions that I asked them. So any crankset that is available with an English thread BB, or that will work with an English thread BB will work.

I think...I'm on a mahoosively steep learning curve here!
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby jasonc » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:32 am

JustJames wrote:It's a BSA (English) thread BB. This was one of the questions that I asked them. So any crankset that is available with an English thread BB, or that will work with an English thread BB will work.

I think...I'm on a mahoosively steep learning curve here!


any english threaded BB - so could a shimano BB be used? or do you require a BB30 style thingamabobbin?

the learning curve for me will come AFTER WAF approval.... now that is a BIG curve
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Reman » Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:09 pm

Spoke to the minister and was denied government funding for my project. :x

I was a bit worried that the frame I was looking at, a 60cm Red Kinesis Crosslight Pro6 frame will become unavailble by the time I could persuade the good minister to release funds. So, I have stumped up for the purchase myself just for the frame and still hope to get funding approved for the balance of works in the new year. :wink:

Ordered from shinybikes.com, the price ended up at 386 pounds deliverd which at current exchange rates is about $582. Which I think is a pretty good price.

Now to plan my requisition request for the other $1400 in parts to build the bike up. :shock:

Only question is, do I continue in this thread for a parts discussion, or start a new one....... :?:
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby jasonc » Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:21 pm

Reman wrote:Only question is, do I continue in this thread for a parts discussion, or start a new one....... :?:


it was your thread to start with, go nuts.

another $1400?

how the hell am i going to be able to do it for the budget i had in mind (~$1500)
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby barefoot » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:43 pm

jasonc wrote:another $1400?

how the hell am i going to be able to do it for the budget i had in mind (~$1500)


Might I be so obvious as to suggest... with cheaper parts?

You can buy off-the-hook CX bikes for less than that. To DIY will cost comparatively more than buying one pre-built, but for every bike you're going to be compromising quality/durability/weight/bling for price. You buy as good as you can afford... whether that's DA, Sora, or no-name.

I reckon I can build my disc-braked road bike for $1k plus a frame. Either I'm planning on using lower-grade bits than Reman, or I'm going to wheel and deal harder. Or I could be kidding myself :-D

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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby jasonc » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:08 pm

barefoot wrote:
jasonc wrote:another $1400?

how the hell am i going to be able to do it for the budget i had in mind (~$1500)


Might I be so obvious as to suggest... with cheaper parts?


well i was thinking
shimano 105 (compact)
avid bb7 disk brakes
alloy frame, carbon fork
everything else would be happy to get what works
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby barefoot » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:32 pm

jasonc wrote:
barefoot wrote:
jasonc wrote:another $1400?

how the hell am i going to be able to do it for the budget i had in mind (~$1500)


Might I be so obvious as to suggest... with cheaper parts?


well i was thinking
shimano 105 (compact)
avid bb7 disk brakes
alloy frame, carbon fork
everything else would be happy to get what works


That's pretty much what I'm working on, other than ~$1k for a Chinese Ti frame instead of alloy, and building my own wheels.

It's going to take some work to get that kind of build kit for $1k, but I reckon it's doable. So you'd have to be looking at a $400-ish frame... which would be very tight...

But hey, that's all part of the fun isn't it?

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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Bentnose » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:10 pm

Seems to be a few people considering this, I was considering similar spec to jasonc with a CX50 crankset for $1500 plus frame. You really need to take a long term view of the project if you can an keep an eye out for specials, eg I was looking at the Zipp Service Course handlebars on CRC, currently $47 down from $120, if your willing to take your time your time and also wait for vouchers, you can get a good build, need to buy the frame first though.
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Reman » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:36 pm

jasonc wrote:
Reman wrote:Only question is, do I continue in this thread for a parts discussion, or start a new one....... :?:


it was your thread to start with, go nuts.

another $1400?

how the hell am i going to be able to do it for the budget i had in mind (~$1500)


Well I've priced it out to $1400, but with say 20% off, which I don't think is unrealistic, it would bring it in to $1120. I think that's starting to look reasonable already.

So, the parts, without any discounts.

Kinesis frame/forks/headset/post clamp $581

Stem - 3T ARX Pro $39
Handlebars - FSA Vero Compact $25, though thinking of going to an FSA Wing Compact $60
Seat Post - Tifosi Carbon $33
Total $97

Groupset
Full Campagnolo Athena $426, except following subbed for brifters, brakes and chain
Chorus Brifters $234 - to get ultra shift
Avid BB7 Road brakes $117
KMC 11 speed chain $36
Total $814

Wheels (self built)
DT Swiss 415 rims $133
BikeHubStore hubs 32/32H $148
DT Swiss Competition 2.0/1.8 Spokes $44
Conti GP4000s $81
Tubes and rim tape $13
Total $420

Other stuff
Cinelli bar tape $13
Clark's gear and brake cables $23 - might be worth getting better ones?
Shimano M520 pedals $24
Carbon paste and headset spacers $20
Total $80

Grand total $1990 ($1710 with 20% off and free delivery)

As this will be a commuter I still probably need mudguards and a rear rack. All other bits and bobs will be transferred from current bike eg. Brooks B17, lights, etc.

Comments?
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby JustJames » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:51 pm

Reman wrote:...
Groupset
Full Campagnolo Athena $426, except following subbed for brifters, brakes and chain
...
Avid BB7 Road brakes $117
...
BikeHubStore hubs 32/32H $148

Comments?


I had a look at BikeHubStore, and I don't see how you can use disc-braked Campagnolo using their hubs.

What am I missing?
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Reman » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:01 pm

JustJames wrote:
Reman wrote:...
Groupset
Full Campagnolo Athena $426, except following subbed for brifters, brakes and chain
...
Avid BB7 Road brakes $117
...
BikeHubStore hubs 32/32H $148

Comments?


I had a look at BikeHubStore, and I don't see how you can use disc-braked Campagnolo using their hubs.

What am I missing?


I sent an email to them asking about swapping the freehub and they said they could swap the Shimano/SRAM freehub on their MTB disc hubs for a spare Campy freehub they had for a reasonable fee.
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Bentnose » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:52 pm

Where are you getting the BB7 road brakes for $117 a pair?
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Reman » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:41 pm

Bentnose wrote:Where are you getting the BB7 road brakes for $117 a pair?


http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=59434 $65.33 each for 2011, $73 for 2013s. Sorry if I got you excited.
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby barefoot » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:02 pm

Reman wrote:http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=59434 $65.33 each for 2011, $73 for 2013s. Sorry if I got you excited.


They still look exactly the same as the BB7 I've had on one of my MTBs since about 2003, give or take some cosmetic differences to the pad adjusting knob.

Of course, the road version is functionally different to the MTB version due to the shorter/harder cable pull (is it a shorter lever or a different cam?), but they're really not changing much over time. And neither they should... they just bloody work.

The 2011 one claims to be the same weight as the 2013 one, to the gram... just as an indication.

I wouldn't hesitate to grab a pair of the "old stock" cheapies. I'm kind of tempted to do just that.

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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby JustJames » Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:10 am

I've seen the BB7 caliper only sold online for cheap. Possibly the link above.

How important is it to use the Avid Clean Sweep rotor with these brakes?
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby Reman » Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:16 am

JustJames wrote:I've seen the BB7 caliper only sold online for cheap. Possibly the link above.


The link above definitely includes the rotor.
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby barefoot » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:18 am

barefoot wrote:They still look exactly the same as the BB7 I've had on one of my MTBs since about 2003


Correction: the one on my MTB is an Avid "BBDB".

That was before they started giving them numbers and released a down-spec version.

Looks just like a current BB7. Which looks like the BB7s I had on another MTB in the mean time.

Right first time.

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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby rjk » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:43 am

JustJames wrote:I've seen the BB7 caliper only sold online for cheap. Possibly the link above.

How important is it to use the Avid Clean Sweep rotor with these brakes?

You have to be careful what disc you get with the caliper, the bb7 has a larger pad that the bb5, so if the braking surface is to narrow you will get a pulsing feedback as the pad rubs on the connecting pieces.

i have just been thru this when buying a new set of wheels i ended up getting the cleansweeps because i knew they would work as that is what came with the bike originally
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Re: Disc road frame for commuting

Postby JustJames » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:47 am

Thanks rjk, that answers that question very neatly.

Original rotors it will be!
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