Australian Cycling Forums - Bicycles Network Australia

Baldy wrote:

mezla wrote:My comments about mates rates still stand though.

Which is the part I find odd. Have you never been given a discount beyond what was advertised for goods or services?

Anyone with half a brain would have heard about online shopping, they can research prices and walk into any shop and ask them to match that price. Sometimes they might get the same price and sometimes they will be given no discount. But usually it will be somewhere inbetween. Only the person parting with their cash can decide the amount they are willing to pay.

That is not mates rates. Its just smart business on both sides.

What is the difference between mates rates and a reduced rate for return customers?

Also have a think about all the places where the ONLY option is to pay the ticket price. Go ask some isle zombie at Cunnings for a discount on a lawnmower...

Look I don't care if you shop online or not. I shop online too, regularly. My problem is you're suggesting that people who get "mates rates" at a LBS are ruining it for everyone else. When the practice of given discounts for return custom is widespread across all business.

I've tried to explain myself but I'm done with this thread.

mezla wrote:

Baldy wrote:I don't want to start an argument. I thought giving regulars a discount was a pretty standard sort of thing.

Man... I have no interest in arguing either, but you keep misrepresenting what I've said, so I have no choice. I'll spell it out.
I have no quarrel with regulars getting discounts, but that has nothing to do with giving non-regulars "reasonable prices".

It should be:
Regulars: Mates rates woot!
Non-regulars: Reasonable prices.

NOT
Regulars: Mates rates woot!
Non-regulars: Massive rip-off.

MarkG wrote:Bypassing Aussie distributors is called grey importing, and no they can't.
For a start, Shimano has their own distribution in Australia, as do Trek and Specialized

Plus you've got individual companies and franchises too who are all competing so it essentially the same thing ; Aussie store buys their Colnago bike from FRF Sports, like every other Aussie store does, and decides how much mark up they feel comfortable with. They usually are told the minimum they can mark up the product, so other stores aren't priced out of the running.

Companies like Specialized are good like that - you'll find the RRP of their products on line - ie S-Works shoes for RRP $399 are $399 every where.

Oxford wrote:% of what?

Oxford wrote:I think its best left to current market forces and caveat emptor.

Oxford wrote:That seems to me to be a rule to guide you as to what is reasonable and what is a rip off.

rkelsen wrote:

Oxford wrote:% of what?

The cheapest price I for which I can purchase the item from an online (usually UK-based) vendor.

To illustrate my point: If a wheelset could be bought for $200 online, I'd be happy to pay up to $240 for the same set from my LBS. Especially if it means that I can walk out of the shop with them today and not have to wait two weeks for delivery. Any more than that and I'd feel like I'm being taken advantage of.

I once paid $98 for a pair of Vittoria Rubinos from a local shop. This was before I started exploring online shops. How was I supposed to feel upon finding out that I could have bought the exact same tyres for $15 each from Wiggle? If I had been charged $35 or $40 for the set, I wouldn't have minded so much... But being violated like that made me vow to never by tyres from an LBS again.

Oxford wrote:There's more to it than price alone.

Ross wrote:So it's not neccassarily the LBS "ripping you off" with high prices.

Ross wrote:You seem to miss the point that often the LBS' are paying more from their wholesalers than what we can get the parts for online from UK.

RonK wrote:

Ross wrote:You seem to miss the point that often the LBS' are paying more from their wholesalers than what we can get the parts for online from UK.

No, we don't miss that point at all. Isn't it about time the lbs' started going back to the distributors and telling them that customers won't pay those prices. After all, if the lbs' are losing business and go broke, so will the distributor, eventually. So it not just up to the retailer to price competitively.

We have for a very long time had a very cosy, monopolistic distribution model in this country which is anti-competitive and drives up prices. But the world has changed, and this distribution model must inevitably change also.

Ross wrote:
Why would the distributors lower their prices? They have a captive market, the LBS' pretty much have to buy their products from them as they are the only supplier in Australia. It's not like it is for us consumers that can pick and choose between LBS "X" and LBS "Y".

JustJames wrote: And while the gap between local price and online price remains as huge as it is, many people will buy online, not because we like waiting for stuff to turn up but because the gap between LBS price and online price is enormous.

JustJames wrote:

Ross wrote:
Why would the distributors lower their prices? They have a captive market, the LBS' pretty much have to buy their products from them as they are the only supplier in Australia. It's not like it is for us consumers that can pick and choose between LBS "X" and LBS "Y".

Ross, if you'd studied marketing you'd know about the buggy whip syndrome.

Before the advent of the 'horseless carriage', most manufacturers of buggy whips thought that they had customers for ever...because you'd always need a buggy whip to make your horse/s go faster.

When the horseless carriage came along, people no longer needed buggy whips. Oooops!

The recurring point of this thread is that the distributors are emphatically not the only supplier in Australia, because many of us (as consumers) don't need the LBS at all. Sooner or later, somebody will decide to bypass the distributors because they will realise that the risks of having to provide warranty support pale into insignificance against the costs of having an empty LBS because we're all buying online. And while the gap between local price and online price remains as huge as it is, many people will buy online, not because we like waiting for stuff to turn up but because the gap between LBS price and online price is enormous.

MarkG wrote:I was on to my mate who owns a bike store about this thread today. He told me that Shimano reps come in to his store from time to time to make sure he's doing the right thing (ie not stocking grey items). He reckons they (importers), hate Wiggle etc more than he does lol

mezla wrote:So... can Aussie bike shops form some sort of buying conglomerate that ships to Australia in bulk and bypasses the current distributors? Remove the extra layer of profit?

jimboss wrote:

mezla wrote:So... can Aussie bike shops form some sort of buying conglomerate that ships to Australia in bulk and bypasses the current distributors? Remove the extra layer of profit?

Dream on.

End of the day, the crap shops will go under. The good ones will find away to make it work.

If the industry shrinks drastically enough then perhaps shop to brand relationships may be feasible. But let me tell you - you'd be hard pressed to find ashop owner who would actually want to take on the responsibility of importing gear themselves. It is not fun importing commercial quantities of anything and is quite a stressful exercise.

But face it. We are a tiny population halfway across the world. Our distributors have the buying power of major store in the UK. Think about that for a moment. Breathe in, breathe out. Move on.

Baalzamon wrote:And I know one shop which I will not name who goes to czech and finds what he wants and brings it back in nothing less than a full size shipping crate