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Torpedo7 helmet concern
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:56 pm
by sblack
I was in the market for a new helmet and noticed some helmets on Torpedo7 listed other standards but not AS/NZS 2063:2008. I sent them a querry regarding this and got the following response:
Thank you for your email.
If our description states Australian/NZ Standards or nothing at all, these helmets meet race standards.
If it shows up with a different code these are still ok to use, but not for race/event standards.
Please let me know if there is anything else I can help you with.
I've sent an email informing them that this may be the case in New Zealand but since they as a company have Australian warehouses and a .com.au website their reply is concerning, informed them that our laws are different here and suggested they update their descriptions to be clearer.
I'll let you know the response when it comes but for now just thought I'd give a heads up to be carefull if you're looking at purchasing a helmet from them or if you have bought one it may be worth checking it if you haven't.
Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:16 pm
by herzog
I bought a helmet off them recently and it has the Australian standard sticker.
Not that I'm fussed either way mind you.
Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:43 pm
by drnick79
Might want to be careful with not being AS and not being covered by TAC, etc 3rd party insurance.
S
Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:44 pm
by herzog
Can anyone point to a factual instance of insurance or restitution being denied to an injured cyclist because their helmet didn't have the sticker?
Or is this just an urban myth?
Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:50 pm
by drnick79
Good point, I guess I would rather just not run the risk.
S
Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:58 pm
by AUbicycles
What kind of sticker and number? can you provide a link because even for helmets prior to Ded 2010 there was still the AS/NZS 2063 requirement.
I am trying to understand the Torpedo7 response as it doesn't make sense - I could understand if they said
if there is no info on the website description, you can assume that it still has the safety standard. It doesn't make sense for them to say
without this sticker they CAN'T be used for racing but CAN be used legally on the road... they simply need this sticker to be used legally on roads.
Current info from NSW Roads and Transport on
Helmet Standards (Should be the same Auswide)
Note - AS/NZS 2063 was updated to AS/NZS 2063:2008 in December 2010.
Helmet standard
Look on the bicycle helmet for the sticker or label certifying that the helmet meets the Australian and New Zealand standard (AS/NZS 2063) and has passed stringent safety tests.
An approved bicycle helmet is a protective helmet for bicycle riders of a type that complies with AS/NZS 2063 and has a mark certifying compliance with the above standard.
Helmets manufactured after 31 March 2011 must have an identifying mark from a body accredited or approved by the Joint Accreditation System of Australia and New Zealand (JAS-ANZ) certifying compliance with the above standard.
Accredited companies
Accredited companies that certify bicycle helmets can be found on the JAS-ANZ website,
http://www.jas-anz.com.au" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. As of October 2010, there are three JAS-ANZ accredited bodies that can certify bicycle helmets to comply with AS/NZS 2063. These are:
BSI
Global-Mark
SAI Global
And to
Cycling Australia Helmet Standards
Cycling Australia wrote:AUSTRALIAN STANDARD AS/NZ 2063 - Bicycle Helmets
The helmet regulation was introduced as a result of cyclists having to comply with the Australian Road Rules. The basic rule is that in all Australian events on the road and track an approved helmet with the Australian Standard sticker (AS2063) must be worn.
The only events where this may not apply are noted in Rule 3.2.02 and are explained as follows:
a) TRACK - In all track events competitors shall wear an approved AS2063, ANSI, Snell or EN approved helmet
b) ROAD - In all road events with the exception of International UCI events (provided permits have been obtained), an Australian Standards approved helmet AS2063 shall be worn.
The CA Board amended rule to permit all competitors to wear internationally approved helmets, if an Australian Road Rules exemption is granted. This is of particular relevance in the road time trial as it removes the requirement by commissaires to determine between international and domestic riders as well as providing fairness to all competitors in being able to wear an approved aerodynamic helmet.
The events for which such an application may be sought include, but may not be limited to;
UCI Road World Cups (Men and Women)
One-day Road Races or multi-stage Tours which have been approved for inclusion on the UCI calendar.
The Australian Open Road Championships or similar event, where overseas or professionally contracted riders with a UCI registered team are competing and the results contribute to UCI ranking points.
3.2.06. Any modification to an approved helmet is strictly prohibited, including; swapping or tampering with stickers; structural or aerodynamic modification.
Failure to comply with this regulation will result in the rider being withdrawn from the event in addition to any other penalty that may be applied by the race official.
Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:00 pm
by jasonc
herzog wrote:Can anyone point to a factual instance of insurance or restitution being denied to an injured cyclist because their helmet didn't have the sticker?
Or is this just an urban myth?
note: IANAL
theoretically, they could argue that using a helmet not meeting AS has increased/caused injuries and therefore reduce/deny payout...
EDIT: and also fine you for not wearing a certified tin lid.
Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:23 pm
by zero
jasonc wrote:herzog wrote:Can anyone point to a factual instance of insurance or restitution being denied to an injured cyclist because their helmet didn't have the sticker?
Or is this just an urban myth?
note: IANAL
theoretically, they could argue that using a helmet not meeting AS has increased/caused injuries and therefore reduce/deny payout...
EDIT: and also fine you for not wearing a certified tin lid.
Unless your lawyer is incompetent, then the burden should be on the opposing parties to demonstrate that the helmet design used was materially less safe than an aus standards helmet, and that on the balance of probabilities the injuries were worsened by the relative performance of the helmet design compared to an aus standards helmet, and that the rider went to some effort or other to avoid an aus approved helmet. A casual rider purchasing from an australian retailer is probably not going to have been considered negligent in their efforts to procure an acceptable helmet, if it subsequently turns out to not have been approved.
However they wouldn't be able to escape the fine for not wearing an approved helmet, as that will be a strict offence.
Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:23 pm
by Ross
Does this apply to MTB helmets?
Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:39 pm
by AUbicycles
Ross wrote:Does this apply to MTB helmets?
Sure, though if you are riding off road then you wouldn't be legally required to wear a helmet, most sports cyclists however choose to wear a helmet and the helmet has to be sold as standards approved.
Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:21 pm
by Nobody
AUbicycles wrote:Ross wrote:Does this apply to MTB helmets?
Sure, though if you are riding off road then you wouldn't be legally required to wear a helmet, most sports cyclists however choose to wear a helmet and the helmet has to be sold as standards approved.
I think IP (Pete) who showed that if it's government owned land like a park etc, you still have to wear a helmet. It is only privately owned land that is legally exempt.
Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:48 pm
by AUbicycles
Interesting, I would have assumed that the road authorities jurisdiction end when you were off their facilities.
Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:41 pm
by mikesbytes
My helmets were purchased from Torpedo7 and were checked for compliance at Australian races
Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:30 pm
by Mulger bill
They must have changed things lately, time was they said either 2063 compliant or "for off road use only".
Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern
Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:00 pm
by sblack
AUbicycles wrote:I am trying to understand the Torpedo7 response as it doesn't make sense - I could understand if they said if there is no info on the website description, you can assume that it still has the safety standard. It doesn't make sense for them to say without this sticker they CAN'T be used for racing but CAN be used legally on the road... they simply need this sticker to be used legally on roads.
Don't forget Torpedo7 is actually New Zealand based. My guess is the rules are different over there, sounds like the standards only apply at races over there. Do they have mandatory helmets laws? Would make sense if they don't that you're free to wear whatever helmet you like.
AUbicycles wrote:Interesting, I would have assumed that the road authorities jurisdiction end when you were off their facilities.
It applies to road related areas which most places people ride would be covered under part C of the definition:
13 What is a road related area
(1) A road related area is any of the following:
(a) an area that divides a road,
(b) a footpath or nature strip adjacent to a road,
(c) an area that is not a road and that is open to the public and designated for use by cyclists or animals,
(d) an area that is not a road and that is open to or used by the public for driving, riding or parking vehicles.
Note. Vehicle is defined in rule 15.
Mulger bill wrote:They must have changed things lately, time was they said either 2063 compliant or "for off road use only".
I've noticed they still list this for their MTB helmets such as the
Bell Slant. In fact if you enter the site using the .com.au address the uncertified road helmets are not listed. The problem appears if you just use .com and don't notice it defaults to the NZ site or if you do a google search and end up at a helmet such as the
Bell Array. That was the one I noticed as I was searching for Bell Helmets when that came up and to my knowledge it isn't available to the Australian market.
Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern
Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:56 pm
by jacks1071
Velogear.com.au sell these Kali helmets cheap as chips and they have a sticker on them. I bought my wife one and she thinks its unreal.
Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern
Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:58 pm
by }SkOrPn--7
My helmet I got from T7 last year sports the latest AU/NZ standards stickers and meets all road and off road criteria if it doesn't sport "AS-NZS-2063-2008" numbers it isn't allowed to be worn as a safety device in this country so ask if the helmet your wanting to purchase has a sticker with that number in it.
Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern
Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:40 pm
by mikesbytes
According to cycling Australia, AS2063 is fine
http://www.cycling.org.au/?Page=17678
Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern
Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:41 pm
by AUbicycles
The Australian and NZ standards, as I understand, are unified.
Torpedo7 also have an Australian based and to legally sell they would most certainly ensure that they are compliant.
Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:23 am
by RonK
jacks1071 wrote:Velogear.com.au sell these Kali helmets cheap as chips and they have a sticker on them. I bought my wife one and she thinks its unreal.
Yes, I bought one from Velogear also, for the built-in GoPro camera mount. It definitely has an Australian approval sticker.
Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern
Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:20 pm
by jules21
drnick79 wrote:Might want to be careful with not being AS and not being covered by TAC, etc 3rd party insurance.
3rd party (e.g. TAC in Victoria) insurance is generally no-blame in nature. breaching road rules is generally what leads to collisions in the first place. if they didn't cover you for that, there wouldn't be a lot of insurance getting paid out. they can't deny you coverage for not wearing the right type of, or any helmet.
Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:07 pm
by mikesbytes
I'm just not seeing what the concern is. Looking at the first helmet I looked at I see;
This helmet is certified as complying with the requirement of AS/NZS 2063:2008
http://www.torpedo7.com.au/products/LRH ... oad-helmet
Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:25 am
by sblack
Yes, they do sell helmets with the standards. The concern is that as a company with an Australian presence it would be assumed that all their helmets would.
Try
the Bell Sweep although as I mentioned it's technically on their NZ site but not so obvious if you arrive from a search or by only entering .com instead of .com.au
Or from the Australian site the
Bell Slant. A little more obvious in that it states off road use only although as discussed above a lot of off road use still requires an approved helmet.
Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:42 pm
by mikesbytes
Agree the Bell Sweep is been sold without reference to the Aussie sticker. I would not buy it based on that.
The Bell Slant link isn't working, they may of withdrawn it from sale?
If I understand correctly, you are not required to wear a helmet off road, the helmet law only applies to public roads. Could someone please confirm/deny this statement.
Re: Torpedo7 helmet concern
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:38 am
by sblack
mikesbytes wrote:Agree the Bell Sweep is been sold without reference to the Aussie sticker. I would not buy it based on that.
The Bell Slant link isn't working, they may of withdrawn it from sale?
If I understand correctly, you are not required to wear a helmet off road, the helmet law only applies to public roads. Could someone please confirm/deny this statement.
Yes, it appears that some time today all the MTB helmets that are not certified have also been removed from the .com.au version of the site.
As for where he law applies, it applies to road related areas which is defined as:
13 What is a road related area
(1) A road related area is any of the following:
(a) an area that divides a road,
(b) a footpath or nature strip adjacent to a road,
(c) an area that is not a road and that is open to the public and designated for use by cyclists or animals,
(d) an area that is not a road and that is open to or used by the public for driving, riding or parking vehicles.
Note. Vehicle is defined in rule 15.
So from the way I read that if the area is open to the public and you're allowed to ride there then the helmet law applies.
