Racing and Commuter wheelset under 400aud

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Re: Racing and Commuter wheelset under 400aud

Postby jacks1071 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:39 pm

usernameforme wrote:I suggested 75kg because that seemed to me like the upper limit for a build like this to be ridden day in day out on varying terrain. 20/24 on a commuter wheel seems a little low to me for someone of around 85kg


We recommend the Bracciano for riders up to 100kg although they are tested in excess of that weight.

A 75kg rider could ride these everyday and it would be a significant amount of time before any serious maintenance would be necessary.
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by BNA » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:51 pm

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Re: Racing and Commuter wheelset under 400aud

Postby jacks1071 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:51 pm

R12RT wrote:
usernameforme wrote:I suggested 75kg because that seemed to me like the upper limit for a build like this to be ridden day in day out on varying terrain. 20/24 on a commuter wheel seems a little low to me for someone of around 85kg


Whoops! I'm in trouble.

I have put on some weight and peaked at 94kg. I hope my Braccianos can take the weight until I can get my weight down to me normal 85kg.

But hang on I'm still too heavy. :(


Quick, you should sell them to usernameforme before they collapse under you!!
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Re: Racing and Commuter wheelset under 400aud

Postby Mulger bill » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:54 pm

Ozkaban wrote:
usernameforme wrote:Scratch the idea of Reynolds Solitude, If you can get the Pro Lite Bracciano for $278 off CRC with the code COLD250 then thats probably the best bang for buck you'll find, If you are under 75kg then you shouldn't have any issues commuting on it (just my view, best to listen to the pro-lite sales rep) price is very similar to what the XR-270 build would cost with a similar spec. That said you are limited to silver if you need a shimano freehub. If you weigh slightly more Bicyclewheelwarehouse have some nice options (such as an ultegra/open pro build that will fit your budget and uses

Dunno about the 75kg limit on the braccianos. I'm 85kg and have had them on the bike for nearly 3k now. Still appear to be in as new condition... I commute and go for club rides on them but I don't race.

Same here :? Never saw any such limit mentioned during my wheel search. Got something to back it up?

EDIT Sorta beaten by Jacks
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Re: Racing and Commuter wheelset under 400aud

Postby jacks1071 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:16 pm

Mingjiemj2012 wrote:what is the wheelset that are relatively same level with the prolite bracciano wheelset? refer to shimano, easton, fulcrum n the list goes.. i think would be far more effective to compare through this


Cycling Plus magazine compared the Pro-Lite Bracciano to the following wheelsets:

Paul Hewitt
Bontrager Aeolus 5.0 ACC
Campagnolo Erus 2-Way Fit
DT Swiss 1850
Shimaon Dura-Ace WH-7450
Easton EA90 SLX
FSA RD-400EU
Mavic Cosmic Carbone SL
Miche Connect
Pianni PCX
Pro RC50 Clincher
Roval Echappee
Fulcrum Racing Zero

Reference: http://2011.pro-lite.net/index.php?opti ... &Itemid=48
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Re: Racing and Commuter wheelset under 400aud

Postby usernameforme » Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:21 am

I suggested 75kg because that seemed like the highest weight these wheels could take day in day out on not perfect surfaces WITHOUT too much maintenance, I would imagine anyone heavier would require the odd true here and there. I could be wrong as this is just my opinion
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Re: Racing and Commuter wheelset under 400aud

Postby R12RT » Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:30 am

usernameforme wrote:I suggested 75kg because that seemed like the highest weight these wheels could take day in day out on not perfect surfaces WITHOUT too much maintenance, I would imagine anyone heavier would require the odd true here and there. I could be wrong as this is just my opinion


5000km on my Braccianos with no issues with trueness.

This is over some indifferent road surfaces.

My weight when I got the wheels was ~87kg and peaked at 94kg. (Trying to get back down to 87kg.)

When I bought the wheels I wasn't really expecting ant weight related issues given they are rated up to 100kg and I would expect they would comfortably go higher.
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Re: Racing and Commuter wheelset under 400aud

Postby Ozkaban » Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:37 am

Mingjiemj2012 wrote:what is the wheelset that are relatively same level with the prolite bracciano wheelset? refer to shimano, easton, fulcrum n the list goes.. i think would be far more effective to compare through this


When I compared them I looked at the prices being charged for wheels in the UK, along with weights and reviews. I didn't use AU pricing because Prolite AU don't use a retail distribution channel which cuts out a layer of expense/profit. The closest I thought they came to with nothing more than internet research was the Fulcrum 3s or the Shimano RS80s. They may well be equivalent to better wheels, but I don't have deep enough pockets to buy them to compare!

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Re: Racing and Commuter wheelset under 400aud

Postby Mingjiemj2012 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:14 am

Ozkaban wrote:
When I compared them I looked at the prices being charged for wheels in the UK, along with weights and reviews. I didn't use AU pricing because Prolite AU don't use a retail distribution channel which cuts out a layer of expense/profit. The closest I thought they came to with nothing more than internet research was the Fulcrum 3s or the Shimano RS80s. They may well be equivalent to better wheels, but I don't have deep enough pockets to buy them to compare!

Cheers,
Dave


izzit okay to compare a carbon with a aluminium wheel since they fall into different category for me?
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Re: Racing and Commuter wheelset under 400aud

Postby jacks1071 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:38 am

usernameforme wrote:I suggested 75kg because that seemed like the highest weight these wheels could take day in day out on not perfect surfaces WITHOUT too much maintenance, I would imagine anyone heavier would require the odd true here and there. I could be wrong as this is just my opinion


What is your suggestion/opinion based on?
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Re: Racing and Commuter wheelset under 400aud

Postby Ozkaban » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:54 am

Mingjiemj2012 wrote:
Ozkaban wrote:
When I compared them I looked at the prices being charged for wheels in the UK, along with weights and reviews. I didn't use AU pricing because Prolite AU don't use a retail distribution channel which cuts out a layer of expense/profit. The closest I thought they came to with nothing more than internet research was the Fulcrum 3s or the Shimano RS80s. They may well be equivalent to better wheels, but I don't have deep enough pockets to buy them to compare!

Cheers,
Dave


izzit okay to compare a carbon with a aluminium wheel since they fall into different category for me?


I forgot that the RS80's a carbon wheel, though it's a carbon/alu laminate. I don't think it makes a huge difference as it's a similar rim profile and similar weight. The braking suface is alu as well.
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Re: Racing and Commuter wheelset under 400aud

Postby ldrcycles » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:01 am

I have a set of RS80 C24s i got for $450 or 500, they feel really good climbing, and they have quite a good ride, not as harsh as some wheels i've used. They don't seem to be overly quick on the flat though.
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Re: Racing and Commuter wheelset under 400aud

Postby usernameforme » Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:49 pm

jacks1071 wrote:What is your suggestion/opinion based on?

mainly the spoke count. I wouldn't mind discussing this further with you, should we go to PM's not to hijack this thread?
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Re: Racing and Commuter wheelset under 400aud

Postby jacks1071 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:42 pm

usernameforme wrote:
jacks1071 wrote:What is your suggestion/opinion based on?

mainly the spoke count. I wouldn't mind discussing this further with you, should we go to PM's not to hijack this thread?


Lots of spokes is not necessarily an indication that a wheelset will be reliable for a heavy rider.

To build a strong wheel the key is a technician skilled enough to apply high and even spoke tension combined with quality components.

If at that point you'd like to add more spokes then go for it but an over-built wheel ie. more spokes than required for the rider's weight will be at an aerodynamic disadvantage to a wheel with enough spokes for the job.
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Re: Racing and Commuter wheelset under 400aud

Postby usernameforme » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:09 pm

I meant spoke count in relation to the rim and the hubs you use. If I remember correctly, Zipp published a study that shows a few extra spokes doesn't make THAT much of an aero difference, but it slowly adds up (a drop from 32 to 16 is drastic, but if you look at it incrementally not so, ie 16-20 small change, 20-24, small change, 24-28 small change, 28-32 small change, 16-32 noticeable difference). The weight of a few extra spokes is also negligible (20g for 4 CX-Rays)
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Re: Racing and Commuter wheelset under 400aud

Postby jacks1071 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:33 pm

usernameforme wrote:I meant spoke count in relation to the rim and the hubs you use. If I remember correctly, Zipp published a study that shows a few extra spokes doesn't make THAT much of an aero difference, but it slowly adds up (a drop from 32 to 16 is drastic, but if you look at it incrementally not so, ie 16-20 small change, 20-24, small change, 24-28 small change, 28-32 small change, 16-32 noticeable difference). The weight of a few extra spokes is also negligible (20g for 4 CX-Rays)


Last time I checked most Zipp wheels were 16/20 and 18/24 spoke count so I fail to see your point, maybe Zipp arn't taking the advice of their own study which you've failed to reference.
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Re: Racing and Commuter wheelset under 400aud

Postby Philipthelam » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:00 pm

Go with the pro lite braccianos from pro lit oz
http://www.pro-liteoz.com/store/index.p ... oductId=19
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Re: Racing and Commuter wheelset under 400aud

Postby Nobody » Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:20 am

jacks1071 wrote:Last time I checked most Zipp wheels were 16/20 and 18/24 spoke count so I fail to see your point, maybe Zipp arn't taking the advice of their own study which you've failed to reference.
It would be no surprise if Zipp's marketing department takes little notice of the engineering department in this regard, since Zipp primarily sells to wealthy racers. Sales for them are all about the performance edge, not durability.
Last edited by Nobody on Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Racing and Commuter wheelset under 400aud

Postby usernameforme » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:22 am

speaking of aero, your bracciano rim isn't very aero so the spoke count isn't going to effect it much, its too narrow to give a smooth tyre transition
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Re: Racing and Commuter wheelset under 400aud

Postby jacks1071 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:15 am

usernameforme wrote:speaking of aero, your bracciano rim isn't very aero so the spoke count isn't going to effect it much, its too narrow to give a smooth tyre transition


Quantify and support your claim with some real evidence and maybe someone would listen to you.
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Re: Racing and Commuter wheelset under 400aud

Postby usernameforme » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:20 am

most aerodynamic rims these days have a 23mm or wider profile. This is to create a smoother transition from the tyre to the rim. Some companies even claim that 38mm is the minimum depth to get an aero advantage with the traditional V-shaped profile. Since your rim is so narrow compared to these rims, there isn't a smooth transition of airflow and the air "separates" at the tyre. I've got a diagram of this somewhere that I'll post when I find it

Instead of attacking my claim, why don't you provide your own evidence and prove me wrong?
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Re: Racing and Commuter wheelset under 400aud

Postby jacks1071 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:44 am

usernameforme wrote:most aerodynamic rims these days have a 23mm or wider profile. This is to create a smoother transition from the tyre to the rim. Since your rim is so narrow compared to these rims, there isn't a smooth transition of airflow and the air "separates" at the tyre. I've got a diagram of this somewhere that I'll post when I find it

Instead of attacking my claim, why don't you provide your own evidence and prove me wrong?


Ok so since you can't substantiate your first claim that 20/24 wheels arn't reliable for a rider over 75kg you're turning to aerodynamics now?

I'm going to assume that your claim is based on your own experience with the wheels you are building yourself and I'll leave it at that.

Some brands are pushing wider rims, others are not. The aerodynamic differences between standard width and normal width rims I understand are small, maybe immeasurable since no-one is particularly keen to publish their wind tunnel data on the subject.

Wider rims are more about increasing the air volume in the tyre - something you can do by going up one tyre size on a standard width rim.
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Re: Racing and Commuter wheelset under 400aud

Postby usernameforme » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:36 pm

jacks1071 wrote:
Ok so since you can't substantiate your first claim that 20/24 wheels arn't reliable for a rider over 75kg you're turning to aerodynamics now?

I'm going to assume that your claim is based on your own experience with the wheels you are building yourself and I'll leave it at that.


Pretty much :roll: . Aerodynamics was mentioned so I thought I would offer my view on it. My knowledge of how airflow works suggests to me having a wider rim would give the aerodynamics of a wheel an advantage. I offered it as my opinion, and you seem to be offering your opinion too, I don't see too much wrong with that?

jacks1071 wrote:Wider rims are more about increasing the air volume in the tyre - something you can do by going up one tyre size on a standard width rim.


They create a different tyre profile, putting a larger tyre on a standard rim may result in more tyre flop in corners and worse Aero as the transition to the rim is even worse.
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Re: Racing and Commuter wheelset under 400aud

Postby Nobody » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:49 pm

Not wanting to get in the middle of this "discussion", I'll just post a couple of links with some evidence and opinion (although from the manufacturers) as to why they believe wider rims are better.

http://www.hedcycling.com/true_speed.asp
http://www.hedcycling.com/ardennes/defa ... content=FR (Select "Aero Data")
http://www.velocitywheels.com/store/pro ... 18&c=14051

I think the title of this thread is a bit confusing since I consider racing wheels to be different to commuter wheels.
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Re: Racing and Commuter wheelset under 400aud

Postby Mingjiemj2012 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:21 pm

Nobody wrote:
I think the title of this thread is a bit confusing since I consider racing wheels to be different to commuter wheels.


owh what i mean is i wanna buy a wheelset that can be used for both commuting and racing uses. that all

anyway the discussion seem bit :D
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Re: Racing and Commuter wheelset under 400aud

Postby jacks1071 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:29 pm

usernameforme wrote:
jacks1071 wrote:
Ok so since you can't substantiate your first claim that 20/24 wheels arn't reliable for a rider over 75kg you're turning to aerodynamics now?

I'm going to assume that your claim is based on your own experience with the wheels you are building yourself and I'll leave it at that.


Pretty much :roll: . Aerodynamics was mentioned so I thought I would offer my view on it. My knowledge of how airflow works suggests to me having a wider rim would give the aerodynamics of a wheel an advantage. I offered it as my opinion, and you seem to be offering your opinion too, I don't see too much wrong with that?

jacks1071 wrote:Wider rims are more about increasing the air volume in the tyre - something you can do by going up one tyre size on a standard width rim.


They create a different tyre profile, putting a larger tyre on a standard rim may result in more tyre flop in corners and worse Aero as the transition to the rim is even worse.


Its interesting you have so much knowledge on wide rims since you keep telling everyone to build wheels with a Kinlin XR-270 which has similar dimensions to a Bracciano rim.
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