Giant Ultegra DI2 Vs Sram

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Giant Ultegra DI2 Vs Sram

Postby auswi2 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:06 pm

Hello,

I am seriously considering buying a new carbon bike and I like the look of the Giant Defy Advanced due to it more relaxed Geometry in place of the Giant TCR Advanced 0. I was at my local LBS this arvo and the manager I was talking to advised me that the Giant DI2 is really a mismatch of parts. I told him the price of the 2012 model and he said if I can read between the lines (you pay for what you get). I have had a look at the specs and the KMC chain is the only non Ultegra part on there which a lot of manufacturers seem to be putting these KMC chains on their bikes. He did mention a Triathlete used Di2 and it broke down 8 times so he won't ever go back to it.

He mentioned his shop will be heading towards SRAM group sets on their bikes due to the double tap system

As I have never ridden sram before I can't comment on it.

Can I ask your thoughts on the Giant Defy Advanced DI2 in term of Ride comfort, Quality of parts, Durability and Less maintenance.

Can I also ask for thought on Sram bikes and how they differ from The Shimano non DI2 range

Thanks

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by BNA » Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:27 pm

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Re: Giant Ultegra DI2 Vs Sram

Postby jasonc » Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:27 pm

auswi2 wrote:Can I also ask for thought on Sram bikes and how they differ from The Shimano non DI2 range


Just spent a week on a bike with Sram Red. Yes it works. Did I like it? No. Do I prefer my Ultegra? Yes.
Took me a couple of kms to get used to it (and then a couple of kms to relearn ultegra). The ultegra gear change feels lighter with enough feel in comparison to the Sram Red. Note - this was Sram Red from a couple of years ago. Not 2013 Sram Red.
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Re: Giant Ultegra DI2 Vs Sram

Postby Marty Moose » Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:36 pm

Got too worry about a shop that bad mouths a product he's not going to sell. All the big manufactures in that price bracket make a nice bike, you need to get what you like.

Sram double tap is fine it shifts nice when adjusted well, it does go out of adjustment more than Shimano. Its a more positive click than Shimano closer to campag. I've never had an issue using it and have been a long term Shimano user.

Ultegra di2 a mismatch...... Me thinks he's not being forthright.

Eight break downs of di2 would indicate the person has no idea what they are doing.One of the reasons I chose di2 with a very small weight penalty was ultra reliable and ease of maintenance.ALL of my mates who use it have found it to be rock solid when put together in the proper manner.


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Re: Giant Ultegra DI2 Vs Sram

Postby usernameforme » Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:58 pm

I'm going to complicate this further by mentioning Campagnolo
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Re: Giant Ultegra DI2 Vs Sram

Postby Marty Moose » Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:29 pm

usernameforme wrote:I'm going to complicate this further by mentioning Campagnolo

already have;)

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Re: Giant Ultegra DI2 Vs Sram

Postby biker jk » Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:43 pm

A friend of mine recently purchased as Giant Defy with Ultegra di2 and he's very happy with the bike fit, ride and gear changing. I personally would choose di2 over Sram because the gear changing will be better. It's also set and forget as there's no cable stretch to dial out. Changing gear under load is also better with di2. Sort of a no brainer really.
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Re: Giant Ultegra DI2 Vs Sram

Postby auswi2 » Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:24 pm

I agree DID is better. I am going to a Giant store tomorrow for a close up look and test ride and will also test ride a campy ASAP and make a decision from there. it seems there are no 2012 Defy Advanced Di2 like there are TCR Advanced 0 at the 2012 prices.

Cheers

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Re: Giant Ultegra DI2 Vs Sram

Postby AlMac » Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:46 pm

The consensus is (from my riding mates and the large number of review I have read) that all groupsets work well and are functional.

Decisions between groupsets are more ergonomics and personal choice than one being substantively better than others.

The Giant Ultegra Di2 is not a mis-match of parts. It will be fine - probably great even.

I've used SRAM but prefer Shimano. The SRAM worked fine. It looks nice too.

I'm sticking with mechanical groupsets. I have enough batteries in my life.
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Re: Giant Ultegra DI2 Vs Sram

Postby Dr_Mutley » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:46 am

If the di2 broke 8 times, I'd suggest it's more a reflection of the builder than the product... If a component of the di2 system was faulty (which happens regardless of brand or mechanical/electronic) then shimano would have a new replacement in the mail ASAP from personal experience of their good support/service. If the builder can't assemble the group, or troubleshoot the issue then they should stick to something more in their scope of expertise, which in this case seems to be mechanical groups...

Personally, at the pointy end of the groupset offerings, they are all going to perform well, when put together right, with personal preferences and nuances being the main determining factor.

Personally, I would run SRAM red over mechanical DuraAce everyday of the week... Just my preference as I could never get DA7900 to work as good as red with my internal routed cervelos. However, I would would run electronic exclusively, if finances allowed it, as my experiences with Di2/Ui2 have been overwhelmingly good...

Ui2 on the giant would see u with a great bike.... SRAM red on the giant would see the same... Try and ride both groups and see what u think. It took one ride of Ui2 on a mates bike around the block (in thongs!) to work out it was awesome (in my eyes) and that I would build my next bike with Di2...
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Re: Giant Ultegra DI2 Vs Sram

Postby Shpox » Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:36 am

Currently on a mechanical Ultegra bike and have yet to try a SRAM groupset, but I think the personal opinion of the shopkeep as swayed you too much over explaining the product. It's not unsurprising. The main thing to keep in mind is feel but also maintenance. Di2 is meant to be a set it and forget it grouppo with a battery charge every month. I've had front derailleur issues and nightmares with mechanics that don't spend the time to adjust things right so Di2 to me is great. Two years from now your mechanical grouppo should function just as well as the day you bought it and if you're like me, I can feel if a shift is just a bit off or not quite right and it bothers me if things aren't perfect. You're also unlikely to get any chain rub as it auto-trims.

From what I understand, if you're all about weight, then the Red might be the way to go. I would be inclined to say an electric grouppo would be more prone to going wrong than a mechanical one if the manufacturer wasn't Shimano.

In regards to the bike, Giant make one of the best specc'd packages out there in addition to an excellent price. It isn't a mismatch at all, though they've gone for their own branded components largely because they have manufacturing capability. It's not something a fan of, but the quality is unlikely to be affected at all. You're buying the Toyota equivalent of a bike here.
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Re: Giant Ultegra DI2 Vs Sram

Postby Dr_Mutley » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:19 pm

Shpox wrote:Di2 is meant to be a set it and forget it grouppo with a battery charge every month.


Probably closer to 6 to 12months per charge depending on use...
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Re: Giant Ultegra DI2 Vs Sram

Postby dale79 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:31 pm

I get 800km between charges, but I charge it at 50% and I change gears a lot

I've done 3800 on a ultegra di2 group set and it has not missed a beat, perfect shifts everytime
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Re: Giant Ultegra DI2 Vs Sram

Postby jasonc » Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:33 pm

Shpox wrote:You're buying the Toyota equivalent of a bike here.


Except unlike Toyota it won't be the reason you fall asleep at the controls
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Re: Giant Ultegra DI2 Vs Sram

Postby Dr_Mutley » Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:03 pm

dale79 wrote:I get 800km between charges, but I charge it at 50% and I change gears a lot

I've done 3800 on a ultegra di2 group set and it has not missed a beat, perfect shifts everytime


If only 800kms gets u down to 50% (regardless of being a heavy gear changer or not) this would suggest u have one of 2 things happening...

1) battery with a lower than quoted capacity, or a charger that doesn't charge to full capacity

2) an incorrectly adjusted limit screw that drains the battery prematurely (common and easy to do))

I'm currently at 4500kms since my last charge, and are yet to get off solid green... I'm using DA Di2 who's servos are more efficient, but not to that differential... But at the end of the day, if ur happy then who cares?! :-) gotta agree, ui2/di2 rarely misses a beat...
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Re: Giant Ultegra DI2 Vs Sram

Postby dale79 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:29 pm

i havent checked the limit screws... will check them this week but i cant see that being a problem as shimano only rate the battery to 1000km on the ultegra system, everyone i know what DI2 all gets around the same KM out of it between charges..

to get 4500km out of it i would have to not change gears!
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Re: Giant Ultegra DI2 Vs Sram

Postby gistane » Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:26 pm

dale79 wrote:i havent checked the limit screws... will check them this week but i cant see that being a problem as shimano only rate the battery to 1000km on the ultegra system, everyone i know what DI2 all gets around the same KM out of it between charges..

to get 4500km out of it i would have to not change gears!


I just got to about 2750km with my Ultegra DI2 and the battery indicator turned to solid red indicating it was at 25% charge left.

This riding has been from training and racing so quite a bit of gear changing.

I would expect from my riding the 50% charge to come from anywhere between 1500 - 2000kms
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Re: Giant Ultegra DI2 Vs Sram

Postby AlMac » Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:04 pm

I have about 15,000km on my Ultegra 6700 mechanical group.

I have replaced the cables once.

When set up properly it is set and forget.

To the extent it has shift issues they are minor and dealt with by small adjustments using the barrel adjusters.

The main issue, I suspect, with mechanical is that it responds in shift to how precisely you swing the gear shifter. This is less of an issue with SRAM which is very much click and shift.
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Re: Giant Ultegra DI2 Vs Sram

Postby hanzao » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:32 am

i was in the similar situation and.. went for ultegra Di2.. the bike is getting built now :)
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Re: Giant Ultegra DI2 Vs Sram

Postby Shpox » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:23 am

Question for those that are running SRAM red. How often do you find you need to make RD/FD adjustments or tuneups? Is it set it and forget it much like Ultegra?

I've always thought mechanical grouppo's need a bit of adjustments and then, with my share of my own share of nightmares with the FD. I'm curious as to what appeals more:

- The lack of maintenance to keep your groupset running smooth (or)?
- It's ability to shift smoothly and quietly?
- Assuming both of the above are negligable, weight?
- All of the above ?
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Re: Giant Ultegra DI2 Vs Sram

Postby Mrfenejeans » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:37 am

If you go down the Di2 track, make sure your LBS can 1. Do software updates etc for the Di2 and 2. Installed the approx. 10mmx10mm Metal Load plate on the frame just behind the front derailleur, as this prevents the FD from rubbing on the carbon, if this isn't installed it may impede on warranty claims (it was one of the first things Merida asked about when my LBS noticed cracks in the frame near the FD and the FD mount was bent and put in a claim)


*My LBS that services my Merida didn't sell me the bike.
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Re: Giant Ultegra DI2 Vs Sram

Postby human909 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:20 pm

Marty Moose wrote:Sram double tap is fine it shifts nice when adjusted well, it does go out of adjustment more than Shimano.


I'd be surpised by this. All most all out of adjustment is caused by cable stretch & housing compression. So it more depends on quality of cables rather than the mech.
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Re: Giant Ultegra DI2 Vs Sram

Postby Marty Moose » Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:25 am

human909 wrote:
Marty Moose wrote:Sram double tap is fine it shifts nice when adjusted well, it does go out of adjustment more than Shimano.


I'd be surpised by this. All most all out of adjustment is caused by cable stretch & housing compression. So it more depends on quality of cables rather than the mech.


Maybe some systems can cope with a little more stretch than other before shifting quality drops! I don't know I'm just feeding back what friends who use sram red/force have said and what I've seen. I have some mates who hated it as it made more noise and went out of adjustment more than their shimano. I also have one friend who thinks its the ducks guts he a really good rider and knows his way round a bike who am I to argue.
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Re: Giant Ultegra DI2 Vs Sram

Postby Dr_Mutley » Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:40 pm

The common thought is Red is noisier, but most of this is eliminated by running a DA chain & cassette...
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Re: Giant Ultegra DI2 Vs Sram

Postby biker jk » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:05 pm

Dr_Mutley wrote:The common thought is Red is noisier, but most of this is eliminated by running a DA chain & cassette...


New Red has eliminated the noise by using elastomers (rubber) between the cassette cogs.
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Re: Giant Ultegra DI2 Vs Sram

Postby Dr_Mutley » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:51 pm

biker jk wrote:
Dr_Mutley wrote:The common thought is Red is noisier, but most of this is eliminated by running a DA chain & cassette...


New Red has eliminated the noise by using elastomers (rubber) between the cassette cogs.

Ahhh then u can't fault it now with that and the improved FD shifting with the yaw
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