Re: Do you really need an Aus helmet?
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:42 pm
Can someone share the reason why the Oz standard is superior to Euro / Nth American standards?
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Gullibility.kokoman wrote:Can someone share the reason why the Oz standard is superior to Euro / Nth American standards?
One major aspect, it requires routine, ongoing testing (something like 10 units from every production run). Overseas standards only do one-off tests I believe. The nature of the exact tests may differ also.kokoman wrote:Can someone share the reason why the Oz standard is superior to Euro / Nth American standards?
Dude, you're funny. Straps are the major difference. There are other differences in testing procedures, in that AS requires ONE unit to be tested through all scenarios, whereas some of the o/s standards use a NEW unit for each test procedure.arkle wrote:Gullibility.kokoman wrote:Can someone share the reason why the Oz standard is superior to Euro / Nth American standards?
arkle
The question is more likely are you willing to risk a fight with the lawyers and insurance agents? Is the property crown land, if so you are likely to need a licence and helmet to ride a moto legally (just saying, may not have legal access). The case that you can be done for DUI on private proerty (heresay, not proof) if you crash a car leads me to more conservative AS-stickered MTB riding.Mulger bill wrote: Question for those in the know...
Is the requirement for the AS sticker only a riding on road thing or would I be in the legislative and insurance poo if I totalled meself in the Wombat forest?
Except for the fact that they are illegal and against the Australian Road Rules. A police officer can pull you over at any time and ask to inspect your helmet. If its not Australian approved you can get fined. I am not sure on the price of the fine but it could be along the lines of the not wearing a helmet fine.sogood wrote:trailgumby wrote: However, the most common scenario as mentioned earlier is one of high end international models eg. Giro Aeon/Atmos and similar from other major brands. For private use non-competition use, I really can't see any valid reasons for not using one bought overseas (cheaper).
All quite ironic in view of the behaviour of those anti-MHL riders. Suddenly recognising the safety advantages and importantce of AS labelled helmets over O/S helmets.gistane wrote:A police officer can pull you over at any time and ask to inspect your helmet. If its not Australian approved you can get fined.
Back on topic after the attempted troll...sogood wrote:All quite ironic in view of the behaviour of those anti-MHL riders. Suddenly recognising the safety advantages and importantce of AS labelled helmets over O/S helmets.gistane wrote:A police officer can pull you over at any time and ask to inspect your helmet. If its not Australian approved you can get fined.
OK, a disclaimer: I'm not holding myself out as someone in the know. TINLA, assume I'm a fool or a liar, blah blah blah. That said:Mulger bill wrote: Question for those in the know...
Is the requirement for the AS sticker only a riding on road thing or would I be in the legislative and insurance poo if I totalled meself in the Wombat forest?
I reckon the only thing ironic about your statement is that you take it as fact. No copper can actually stop you and demand any sort of sticker on your helmet. I suppose he can note its manufacturer and check up but that's about it. There is no longer any requirement to have a sticker on or in the helmet.sogood wrote:All quite ironic in view of the behaviour of those anti-MHL riders. Suddenly recognising the safety advantages and importance of AS labelled helmets over O/S helmets.gistane wrote:A police officer can pull you over at any time and ask to inspect your helmet. If its not Australian approved you can get fined.
The testing regime is fairly similar with the main difference being the euro standard does each test with a new helmet. The Australian standard requires that each helmet pass the series of test.kokoman wrote:Can someone share the reason why the Oz standard is superior to Euro / Nth American standards?
Not a troll, but legitimate related arguments that cross two threads.Mulger bill wrote:Back on topic after the attempted troll...
I think you missed my point.outnabike wrote:I reckon the only thing ironic about your statement is that you take it as fact...sogood wrote:All quite ironic in view of the behaviour of those anti-MHL riders. Suddenly recognising the safety advantages and importance of AS labelled helmets over O/S helmets.
if they can do it for a motorbike rider (a workmate got done), then why not a cyclist?outnabike wrote:No copper can actually stop you and demand any sort of sticker on your helmet.
Which is the standard for motorcycle helmets. As you rightly point out, the specific requirements of the relevant standards are at issue. Trouble is, helmets fall under a different standard: AS/NZS 2063.outnabike wrote:In fact, the “statement of compliance” may be, as we read above from Australian Standard AS/NZS 1698:2006, “on a product, or on packaging or promotional material related to that product”.
So when you purchased your helmet, the “statement of compliance” could have been printed on the box it came in, or on the “Instructions for Use and Care” required under Section 9 of the Standard and enclosed with your helmet, or on promotional material telling you how wonderful it is, or on a swing-tag or on a sticker across the entire visor, or it may take the form of a shiny sticker from a CAB company stuck on the helmet.
I think this is pretty sketchy advice. Certainly, lack of a sticker is not decisive. Lack of certification, however, is. This is a live issue with helmets bought offshore.outnabike wrote: Police are looking for something that doesn’t exist.
Conclusion
To riders: We suggest that you continue wearing your helmet as before and by all means buy a new one from a recognised manufacturer. Just concentrate on staying safe until this is all sorted out!
To the police: If a rider has a helmet on, that’s enough for now. You don’t look for stickers on seatbelts, just that they’re being used. Bookings for “unapproved helmet” are likely to prove unsound in court.
Yeah, Oooook then. You just keep on believing that your snide little digs at pro hemlet choice posters in every thread discussing helmets (that are not the MHL)aren't.sogood wrote:Not a troll, but legitimate related arguments that cross two threads.Mulger bill wrote:Back on topic after the attempted troll...
You were sayin'?sogood wrote:On the one had some anti-MHL advocates (not necessarily you) pushes how helmets are unnecessary, to the point of even causing injuries. On the other, those are arguing the importance of an AS sticker vs EU or US standards.
AVCC clubs regularly do helmet checks, so do the local CA club's.high_tea wrote:
As for the rights of clubs to require standards-compliant helmets: of course they can; it's a contract. They can stipulate the clothes you wear, the kind of bike you ride and all manner of other things because, well, them's the rules. The situation with helmets is no different.
Hi jasonc,jasonc wrote:if they can do it for a motorbike rider (a workmate got done), then why not a cyclist?outnabike wrote:No copper can actually stop you and demand any sort of sticker on your helmet.
and the court case would go like this:outnabike wrote:I am not being adamant that all the above is right 100% but if I get booked for a helmet issue of non compliance I will challenge it in court.
(emphasis in original)outnabike wrote:Hi jasonc,jasonc wrote:if they can do it for a motorbike rider (a workmate got done), then why not a cyclist?outnabike wrote:No copper can actually stop you and demand any sort of sticker on your helmet.
A cop can book you whenever he likes, if he thinks you are doing wrong. That doesn't make him necessarily correct. The point of all that stuff above is that it seems by law, a certificate of safety has to be provided for Ausy conditions, the onus of proof is for the purchaser.
It seems that the law has no right to expect the wearer to prove the helmets safety or other wise. That is what the testing by the manufacture is supposed to guarantee. The police can book you on suspicion of an incorrect helmet and that can then be examined in court.
In reality the police don't have the skills to tell if you removed the label accidentally, swapped it or whatever. You don't have to carry a tube of glue to re-a fix a label.
In actuality the same should apply to race officials of cycling clubs. It is ok to write a lot of requirements, but it is possible to be coming at the issue from the wrong angle.
At the end of the day due to all the ineptitude of the state and federal rules, In the case of a life threatening issue over negligence, the manufacturer could certainly be called to the table and have to prove his product is sound.
A motorist has to carry a license and that is all. He doesn't need a safety label on the safety belts.
I am not being adamant that all the above is right 100% but if I get booked for a helmet issue of non compliance I will challenge it in court.
This is the rule as enacted in Queensland; other states may vary, I'm not sure on this point.Bicycle helmets
(1) The rider of a bicycle must wear an approved bicycle helmet securely fitted and fastened on the rider’s head.
Maximum penalty—20 penalty units.
I don't see anything about the onus being on the wearer or anything like that. Near as I can judge, the onus, if you're talking about breach of the road rules, falls on the Crown. At the risk of digressing, helmets sold in Aus are legally required to comply with the standard. So I would have thought that someone who bought a helmet in, say, a bike shop and got pinged could have raised a defence of mistake (because they honestly and reasonably believed the helmet to be standards-compliant).approved bicycle helmet means a helmet that complies with—
(a) AS 2063.1 and 2063.2; or
(b) another standard the chief executive considers is at least equal to that standard.
You work mat "Knew" he was in the wrong because the police told him so?jasonc wrote:and the court case would go like this:outnabike wrote:I am not being adamant that all the above is right 100% but if I get booked for a helmet issue of non compliance I will challenge it in court.
judge: was the helmet purchased in Oz with the appropriate oz standards?
you: no but....
judge: guilty
my workmate on the motorbike copped the fine. he knew he was in the wrong.