Electronic Gears - worth the expense?

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Re: Electronic Gears - worth the expense?

Postby sogood » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:50 am

dale79 wrote:near on 12 months now..

Barely scratching the surface in terms of durability testing and work life determination.
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by BNA » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:40 am

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Re: Electronic Gears - worth the expense?

Postby trek52 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:40 am

DI2 is a fad, it will pass just like STI shifters, they will be gone soon. I rememeber when STI came out in the late 80s, it wont last they said !!

I prefer to not use DI2 but seriously it will be on all bikes in 5 years, it will be cheaper to produce than mechanical.

This arguement is the same as the clowns that still think steel bikes have any purpose in life other than land fill.

And Disc brakes are next.......
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Re: Electronic Gears - worth the expense?

Postby Ross » Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:33 am

Philipthelam wrote:
dale79 wrote:please enlighten us DI2 owners what the so called extra complexity and life limits are of the electronics..


:roll:

The extra cost is $2500 plus the time of removing the old groupset and replacing it with di2


Or


The cost of a new part if something like the FD or RD breaks


To buy the Ultegra Di2 upgrade bits seperately from Ribble is just under $1300 (plus any GST and Duty that might be payable) or you can buy complete Ult Di2 groupset from Bike Bug for just under $1500 delivered. Yes there is a cost of getting a LBS to swap the components over but it shouldn't be more than $150ish.
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Re: Electronic Gears - worth the expense?

Postby sogood » Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:35 am

trek52 wrote:This arguement is the same as the clowns that still think steel bikes have any purpose in life other than land fill.

Steel bikes are hot and fills a good part of the market. They don't die. Similar, traditional mechanical derailleurs will also hang around for a good portion of the market. It's variety, not replacement.
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Re: Electronic Gears - worth the expense?

Postby RRalphy » Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:58 am

Sorry I kicked off a bit debate, I didnt realise the issue would get people so heated (though I probably should have known it would...)

I ended up getting a TCR Advanced 0 over the weekend and am very happy with the Di2, still getting used to it though, thanks for all the advice, details on auto trimming / reduce maintenance etc tipped the scales for me (plus under $2k for a lightly used TCR with full Ultegra Di2 couldnt really be overlooked...)
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Re: Electronic Gears - worth the expense?

Postby jimsheedy » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:09 am

I'm a Di2 fan. But as that's been sorted on to the other issue.

You don't get sick from riding in the rain or getting wet or cold. You get sick from catching a virus. Of course if you slipped over when riding in the rain and while lying on the road you copped a mouth full of stormwater, you may very well get a bacterial infection. Any don't let the rain hold you back. Remember rule #9.
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Re: Electronic Gears - worth the expense?

Postby sogood » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:17 am

jimsheedy wrote:You don't get sick from riding in the rain or getting wet or cold. You get sick from catching a virus.

But those conditions may render the subject susceptible to infections.
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Re: Electronic Gears - worth the expense?

Postby nickobec » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:18 am

I will be sticking with my 10 speed SRAM red for the next couple of years.

Scott demo day took a CR1 with DI2 for test ride, I will like it, it is the bike I should be riding. 1km later position too upright & the gears are weird, 2km in gear shifting does not feel right, 3km in there is no feedback when you change gears that is what I don't like, 4km in that is it I am going back, don't like the shifters, don't like the riding position, no enjoying the ride. The return 4km did not change my mind, probably reinforced it more.

Out on a Team Foil with DA9000, flogged it round the local crit circuit then rode it home to pick up a couple of tubes and back to the shop, throughly enjoyed the ride. Only reason not buying one (after being offered one at a silly price) is 11 speed meaning need to upgrade TT bike and training bike too as constantly swapping wheels and bits between bikes, and my Strava showed lots of silverware for the Foil ride, but they where all 2nd best times, the PBs where set riding my 2010 Fuji SL to and from the shop that day.

No I will not use EPS, Campagnolo ergonomics do not work with my hands, my coffee shop ride is steel + modern mechanical athena (and probably still be in 2020)

If I need new bikes now, the Team Foil with DA9000 would be top of the list and a DI2 preferably 11 speed TT bike would be next, I understand the advantages of electronic shifting, particularly trimming and more than one pair of shifters. For me I will make the jump to electronic and 11 speed in a couple of years, when I am ready.
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Re: Electronic Gears - worth the expense?

Postby jacks1071 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:46 am

sogood wrote:
trek52 wrote:This arguement is the same as the clowns that still think steel bikes have any purpose in life other than land fill.

Steel bikes are hot and fills a good part of the market. They don't die. Similar, traditional mechanical derailleurs will also hang around for a good portion of the market. It's variety, not replacement.


Steel is so 1980's - Bamboo is where its at.
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Re: Electronic Gears - worth the expense?

Postby TDC » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:56 am

trek52 wrote:
This arguement is the same as the clowns that still think steel bikes have any purpose in life other than land fill.



Oh great one...please give us direction in all that is good and worthy. Clearly some of us have lost our way and need your guidance.
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Re: Electronic Gears - worth the expense?

Postby Nobody » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:06 pm

TDC wrote:
trek52 wrote:
This arguement is the same as the clowns that still think steel bikes have any purpose in life other than land fill.



Oh great one...please give us direction in all that is good and worthy. Clearly some of us have lost our way and need your guidance.
+1

trek52 wrote:DI2 is a fad, it will pass just like STI shifters, they will be gone soon. I rememeber when STI came out in the late 80s, it wont last they said !!
I remember buying LX MTB STI shifters in the early '90s. By '92 they had problems with dirt/dust ingress and so I swapped to secondhand XT thumb shifters as, at the time, many racers were using these because they still had friction mode to finish a race if the derailleur got damaged. They never let me down in MTB racing.

trek52 wrote:And Disc brakes are next.......
Had a disc on the front of my CX bike for 3 years. I would like to have hydros too eventually when they are cheap enough and suit me. I don't know why people assume because you don't want every piece of new technology that therefore you are some kind of backward, technophobe loser. I've worked in a technology field for over 20 years.
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Re: Electronic Gears - worth the expense?

Postby Jean » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:09 pm

TDC wrote:
trek52 wrote:
This arguement is the same as the clowns that still think steel bikes have any purpose in life other than land fill.



Oh great one...please give us direction in all that is good and worthy. Clearly some of us have lost our way and need your guidance.


+2

I went steel for my MTB last year and plan to do so for my roadie this year. But then, I started using a double edged razor recently so maybe I'm going retro grouch.

Back on topic, I'm sure Di2/EPS is great, but for what I do can't see any point in going electronic, for the same reasons that Sogood has mostly outlined.

Reading this thread I couldn't help thinking about the pile of 'dead' cordless drills I saw at my local recycle centre just yesterday. Almost all were probably entirely good apart from stuffed batteries. Having a bike and needing a battery and firmware upgrades to run it just doesn't do it for me. Particularly when my traditional mid-range Centaur is so damned faultless.
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Re: Electronic Gears - worth the expense?

Postby TDC » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:34 pm

Jean wrote:
Reading this thread I couldn't help thinking about the pile of 'dead' cordless drills I saw at my local recycle centre just yesterday. Almost all were probably entirely good apart from stuffed batteries.


They're not dead...they're waiting!.... dun dun daaaaa :lol:
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Re: Electronic Gears - worth the expense?

Postby Mulger bill » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:15 pm

Can afford but not justify the extra cost, once what I've got wears out or breaks then I'll reconsider. By then it should be down to a price that doesn't need justification :wink:

AndyRevill wrote:A question for people who do have it, what's the limp home option in the event something does go wrong? (I'm assuming there's some provision for this)

cheers, Andy


I see that this question is yet to be addressed, any takers?
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Re: Electronic Gears - worth the expense?

Postby Nobody » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:27 pm

Mulger bill wrote:
AndyRevill wrote:A question for people who do have it, what's the limp home option in the event something does go wrong? (I'm assuming there's some provision for this)

cheers, Andy


I see that this question is yet to be addressed, any takers?

If it's an unsprung stepper motor system (likely) and it had a power failure, one could only assume it would stay in the last cog selected.

Edit:
Below is a thread about Di2 problems with crash protection mode. In this thread it says the following.
When the Ultegra battery gets low, the system stops shifting the front der, as it continues to get lower, it stops shifting the rear and will stay in the last position it was in.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/compon ... 85101.html
Last edited by Nobody on Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Electronic Gears - worth the expense?

Postby ball bearing » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:32 pm

Electronic shifting does not appeal to my minimalist cycling nature. What does bug me is when I am in the drops and because I have large hands I have trouble changing gears using the paddles. Maybe the electric buttons would suit me better? I'll have to try it out.
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Re: Electronic Gears - worth the expense?

Postby Marty Moose » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:41 pm

RRalphy wrote:Sorry I kicked off a bit debate, I didnt realise the issue would get people so heated (though I probably should have known it would...)

I ended up getting a TCR Advanced 0 over the weekend and am very happy with the Di2, still getting used to it though, thanks for all the advice, details on auto trimming / reduce maintenance etc tipped the scales for me (plus under $2k for a lightly used TCR with full Ultegra Di2 couldnt really be overlooked...)

Well done on your new Bike enjoy it just gets better :) Nice price too.

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Re: Electronic Gears - worth the expense?

Postby Nobody » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:04 pm

After reading the thread I posted above, it appears EPS is better in the regard of having on-board diagnostics and the ability to manually move the rear derailleur when the system has failed.
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Re: Electronic Gears - worth the expense?

Postby warthog1 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:54 pm

trek52 wrote:
This arguement is the same as the clowns that still think steel bikes have any purpose in life other than land fill.


Suggest you have a look here. You might be surprised.
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Re: Electronic Gears - worth the expense?

Postby dale79 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:39 am

im still laughing at people that think downtube shifters are the go let alone a STI shifter.. :roll:
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Re: Electronic Gears - worth the expense?

Postby dale79 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:40 am

trek52 wrote:This arguement is the same as the clowns that still think steel bikes have any purpose in life other than land fill.



damm right,

taking my full carbon DI2 bike to the LBS today to get a firmware update.. im almost as excited about the new features as what i was when i first got the bike..
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Re: Electronic Gears - worth the expense?

Postby Sharkey » Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:58 am

dale79 wrote:taking my full carbon DI2 bike to the LBS today to get a firmware update.. im almost as excited about the new features as what i was when i first got the bike..


Hey Dale

I am thinking of getting a firmware upgrade for mine too. Just one question though. If you have multi-shift, how do you check for battery charge level as holding down the button for half a second would now be programmed to change multiple gears?

I really like the DI2 on my bike but understand it's not for everyone, so as to whether it's worth the money or not is up to each individual.

Ralphy - let us know what you think when you have had a decent ride.
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Re: Electronic Gears - worth the expense?

Postby dale79 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:03 am

i will let you know once the update is done, i assume it will just work as per normall off the front shifter
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Re: Electronic Gears - worth the expense?

Postby TDC » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:15 am

dale79 wrote:
trek52 wrote:This arguement is the same as the clowns that still think steel bikes have any purpose in life other than land fill.



damm right,

taking my full carbon DI2 bike to the LBS today to get a firmware update.. im almost as excited about the new features as what i was when i first got the bike..


Sheesh...you and trek52 are on the wrong drugs. You guys think because some of us like steel frames that we don't have 2 or 3 carbon bikes in the shed as well. :roll:
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Re: Electronic Gears - worth the expense?

Postby Howzat » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:36 am

Sydguy wrote:If the handbrake complains about the 8,000 whatever price tag just wax lyrical about the components, and get her to listen to the gears shift - women find it irresistable.

The kids don't like orthodontic braces anyway, darling - and just listen to this shifting sound! [dodges flying dinnerware]
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