The New Toy

Questions about purchasing bicycles and parts

The New Toy

Postby NotTim » Mon May 19, 2008 1:25 pm

Picked up something a little more suited to getting dirty on the weekend.

Just slicks on it atm, but I'll get a set of knobbies before I head off road.

Image

Image

Rode it from Cell at Stanmore to Paramatta before I wimped out and got the train the rest of the way, so far I'm happy with it, but I think I'm going to need to do something to stiffen up the front end in the long run, even with the forks "locked" I still use well over half the travel when working hard up hills.

Most of it's miles are going to be commuting for the time being, hence the slicks, but I'm planning on spending some time exploring the blue mountains on it when I get a chance.
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by BNA » Mon May 19, 2008 2:36 pm

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Postby Chuck » Mon May 19, 2008 2:36 pm

Good looking bike Tim.

Did you get any of my PM's about the overshoes ?
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Postby Aushiker » Mon May 19, 2008 3:20 pm

G'day

Have fun ... do you have the specs or model details?

Andrew
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Postby peter » Mon May 19, 2008 3:34 pm

Nice looking bike. Are those Topeak bar-end mirrors?

Out of curiosity, how did you go from Newtown to Parramatta? Parramatta Road all the way or M4 shoulder?
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Postby NotTim » Mon May 19, 2008 4:13 pm

peter wrote:Nice looking bike. Are those Topeak bar-end mirrors?


Yup, still not sure on how well they work, they're a little thin to give a good view, I also need to play with the angle of the bar ends to get the right view on the mirrors.

The mirrors flip out and then rotate, but the rotation has a series of notches, and the way I've got the bar ends currently none of the notches are in the right place. Not a huge deal, just need to stick an allen key in my pocket and fiddle with it some more.

peter wrote:Out of curiosity, how did you go from Newtown to Parramatta? Parramatta Road all the way or M4 shoulder?


I pretty much made it up as I went along.

Cell are in Stanmore, not Newtown, I was only on Parra road for about 3 blocks, most of it in a bus lane, but I did a bit on the footpath.

I went down Norton st, crossed over the city west link, and got onto the bike path beside the city west link from there and followed the signs to Homebush bay and then Parramatta.

I've done the Homebush - Parra part a few times, so I knew where I was going once I got to Homebush. I was hoping to ride the rest of the way to Blacktown, but after stopping for lunch in Parramatta I ran out of motivation and got on the train. About 32km all up.
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Postby familyguy » Mon May 19, 2008 4:23 pm

"even with the forks "locked" I still use well over half the travel when working hard up hills"

Does the lock out not work, then? Or is it just a soft version? The couple of lockout forks I've used have been truly solid when locked.

Starting to debate about a Cell mountain bike for the arsenal.

Jim
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Postby NotTim » Mon May 19, 2008 7:43 pm

familyguy wrote:"even with the forks "locked" I still use well over half the travel when working hard up hills"

Does the lock out not work, then? Or is it just a soft version? The couple of lockout forks I've used have been truly solid when locked.

Starting to debate about a Cell mountain bike for the arsenal.

Jim


I'm wondering if there is an issue with them, I've never owned a bike with lockout forks on them before, reading the manual for the forks, it says that it allows "A small amount of controlled fork movement" when in the lock position, which fine, but when I'm standing up in a high gear up a hill I"m using 3/4 of the fork travel, which is annoying because I'd rather that energy went into getting me up the hill, rather then bouncing the forks up and down
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Postby MountGower » Mon May 19, 2008 7:49 pm

Your not wasting any energy in fork travel when you are going up hill. Your chain is connected to the rear wheel and you have a hard tail, so it is not possible for you to be wasting energy. I did a long ride on Saturday that required a few hard hill climbs on bitumen to link up some parks. I was out of the saddle quite a bit and really can't see how it is an issue. I had a lot of sag, but very little bob. In fact, the more sag you have the less likely the forks are to bob.
Last edited by MountGower on Mon May 19, 2008 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Geoff3DMN » Mon May 19, 2008 7:51 pm

Congrats on the new beast Tim :)

Looks the goods too!

I must say that I haven't noticed the forks on the Giant moving when they are locked but then the road edges around here are so cut up I normally leave them unlocked for the improvement in ride.

I guess different forks have different systems too.
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Postby leximack » Mon May 19, 2008 7:53 pm

is the frame a bit small for you, the seat post looks like its up a long, long way
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Re: The New Toy

Postby Kalgrm » Mon May 19, 2008 8:03 pm

NotTim wrote: but I think I'm going to need to do something to stiffen up the front end in the long run, even with the forks "locked" I still use well over half the travel when working hard up hills.

Are they the Toras with air shocks? If so, how much pressure have you got in them and how much do you weigh?

My Toras (air) only sag about 20mm when locked out.

Cheers,
Graeme
(PS - nice toy! ;))
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Postby NotTim » Mon May 19, 2008 8:14 pm

leximack wrote:is the frame a bit small for you, the seat post looks like its up a long, long way


The seat post is right at the max length line, it's the medium frame, the large was too long for me, I'm guessing I'm an odd shape, I'm more comfortable on the medium without a huge stretch to the bars.
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Re: The New Toy

Postby NotTim » Mon May 19, 2008 8:18 pm

Kalgrm wrote:
NotTim wrote: but I think I'm going to need to do something to stiffen up the front end in the long run, even with the forks "locked" I still use well over half the travel when working hard up hills.

Are they the Toras with air shocks? If so, how much pressure have you got in them and how much do you weigh?

My Toras (air) only sag about 20mm when locked out.

Cheers,
Graeme
(PS - nice toy! ;))


Nope, and this confused me, it seems there are 3 levels of Tora, mines the 318, but then there are 3 different version of the 318, two air shock ones, and a coil one, I've got the coil, I'm wishing it was an air shock one, as that would let me take into account that I'm a fat prick and up the pressure.

I'll just put up with and ride for the time being.
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Postby Kalgrm » Mon May 19, 2008 8:24 pm

Have a chat with the LBS you got it from (assuming it wasn't an online purchase). They might (and actually should) change the spring out for you at no charge as part of the fitting process. Even if you need to pay for it, you should be getting a higher rated spring in there. It's not an expensive part.

Cheers,
Graeme
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Postby Geoff3DMN » Mon May 19, 2008 8:29 pm

NotTim wrote:I'm guessing I'm an odd shape


Last time I saw you Tim most of that 'odd shape' had disappeared... I was really impressed with the amount of lost waist line!

I wish I'd lost that much!

Trade you a ride on the Fuji for a ride on the Cell next time we cross paths? :wink:
Last edited by Geoff3DMN on Mon May 19, 2008 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Hawkeye » Mon May 19, 2008 9:19 pm

Congrats on the weight loss. Nice bike, too! :D

Now, did I read that right? Using 3/4 total fork travel and not 3/4" travel standing out of the saddle? With the lockout ON? :shock:

I have a Cannondale Lefty with no lockout on my Jekyll, and even with it being one of the plushest forks out there, I'd be lucky to use up 1/2 if I'm really stomping! And that includes the original 25% sag. With the RS Judy 2.5 forks on my Mongoose with the lockout off it'd be the same. Most of the time though it's barely noticeable as I pull up on the bars to offset the downstroke. With the lockout on the 'goose there's no bob at all.

I agree with Graeme and suggest you need a stiffer spring, for sure. I'd talk to them about the "lockout" too.
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Postby NotTim » Mon May 19, 2008 9:37 pm

j.r.hawkins wrote:Now, did I read that right? Using 3/4 total fork travel and not 3/4" travel standing out of the saddle? With the lockout ON? :shock:


I'll do the cable tie trick and get an actual measurement of how much it's using, but it's definitely compressing more than half way.

j.r.hawkins wrote:I agree with Graeme and suggest you need a stiffer spring, for sure. I'd talk to them about the "lockout" too.


Checking the Rockshox site, the heaviest spring they sell for it is listed as suiting an 82kg rider, which makes me wonder what planet they're on.

I emailed the shop I got it from, they suggested that I check with the distributor to see if there were any aftermarket heavier springs, unfortunately they don't sell any.

I'll have a chat to them when it's in for the first service.
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Postby nila » Tue May 20, 2008 12:26 pm

I had a cell bike with lockout suspension and it didn't travel at all when locked. I actually get more movement with my Trek 6700 when locked although this supposedly is a feature ;)
My Cell was rock solid when locked - I'd speak to the guys at cell, they're usually pretty friendly to me.

Also - are those some AyUp's I see sneaked on there? ;)
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Postby Hawkeye » Tue May 20, 2008 1:48 pm

NotTim wrote:Checking the Rockshox site, the heaviest spring they sell for it is listed as suiting an 82kg rider, which makes me wonder what planet they're on.


Now you've got a weight loss goal, I guess! :lol:

How much sag do you have set on the forks? Typical sag is amount is 25% of full travel. For example, on 100mm forks, you would expect to use up 25% or 25mm just sitting on the bike hands-on-the-bars and not pedalling. If it's sinking further into the travel at rest you need to wind up the preload until you get to 25%.
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Postby NotTim » Tue May 20, 2008 3:13 pm

j.r.hawkins wrote:Now you've got a weight loss goal, I guess! :lol:


I think I'd be close to being dead if I ever weighed 82kg, getting under 100kg would make me happy, 90 and I'd probably pass out from shock

j.r.hawkins wrote:How much sag do you have set on the forks? Typical sag is amount is 25% of full travel. For example, on 100mm forks, you would expect to use up 25% or 25mm just sitting on the bike hands-on-the-bars and not pedalling. If it's sinking further into the travel at rest you need to wind up the preload until you get to 25%.


I've been playing with the settings, but I've basicaly got the preload and the compression damping to max, there's not going to be enough adjustment there to make up for the fact I'm 50kg heavier then the recommended weight for the springs. I was just hoping the lockout function would work a bit better then it does, which is basicaly not at all.
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Postby Hawkeye » Tue May 20, 2008 8:50 pm

NotTim wrote:I've been playing with the settings, but I've basicaly got the preload and the compression damping to max, there's not going to be enough adjustment there to make up for the fact I'm 50kg heavier then the recommended weight for the springs. I was just hoping the lockout function would work a bit better then it does, which is basicaly not at all.


The non-functional lockout doesn't sound at all right.

If it's called a lockout it should stiffen up the fork significantly. On my bottom-end Judy 2.5s, there's a maximum of 5mm movement unless you hit a big-ass square-edge bump, in which case you blow through the bypass valve that is there to prevent you destroying the seals when you hit a big-ass square-edge bump. It certainly doesn't move much when mashing the pedals out of the saddle.

If it's called pro-pedal or motion control it should still be stiff enough to resist low speed movement (ie, most pedal bob) while absorbing higher-speed hits (trail bumps).

Often the bike manufacturers will put stiffer springs in the forks in the bigger frames on teh assumptin bigger riders weigh more. Seeing yours is a medium, it's a certainty you need to up the spring rate. Go the stiffest in the range - it has to be an improvement.
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Postby Kalgrm » Tue May 20, 2008 9:47 pm

JR,

I think you'll find NotTim already has the stiffest spring available (he said so earlier).

However, I agree with you that something is wrong. On my Tora forks (air), the Motion Control (ie lockout) makes the forks so stiff I can barely move them 20mm - unless I hit one of your big-ass square-edge bumps.

Get them looked at NotTim.

Cheers,
Graeme
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