steel commuter frame

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Re: steel commuter frame

Postby warthog1 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:00 pm

Thanks :)
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by BNA » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:40 pm

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Re: steel commuter frame

Postby Mulger bill » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:40 pm

No worries.

Shoulda mentioned that theres a special goo for CF posts :?
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: steel commuter frame

Postby Nobody » Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:01 pm

warthog1 wrote:In the mean time, alloy seat post into steel frame: grease it first?
Grease will work, but it also makes the clamp's job harder. I use a non-hardening gasket compound which you can get from automotive stores. Applied thinly, it dries to form a sticky surface. I've heard that the carbon assembly compounds are similar. You'll probably find electrolysis problems are not much different with Al posts in steel frames than in Al frames (which also react for some reason).
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Re: steel commuter frame

Postby singlespeedscott » Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:31 am

I always use grease. Only a thin film. It's only there as barrier to stop the two metals bonding together due to moisture. It also makes it easier to insert.

Before you put the post in check the inside of the seat tube for burrs and sharp edges. If there is any just run a rats tail file over them. A smooth tube makes it easier to insert and stops you scratching the seat post. A pet hate of mine.
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Re: steel commuter frame

Postby warthog1 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:20 am

Nobody wrote:
warthog1 wrote:In the mean time, alloy seat post into steel frame: grease it first?
Grease will work, but it also makes the clamp's job harder. I use a non-hardening gasket compound which you can get from automotive stores. Applied thinly, it dries to form a sticky surface. I've heard that the carbon assembly compounds are similar. You'll probably find electrolysis problems are not much different with Al posts in steel frames than in Al frames (which also react for some reason).


I reckon I know the stuff you're talking about. Aviation form a gasket or something. Comes in a small bottle/jar with a brush in the lid and is like thick black molasses.
How do you go getting the post out again? It doesn't glue it in there?
Sounds like another interesting Nobody trick of the trade :)
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Re: steel commuter frame

Postby warthog1 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:23 am

singlespeedscott wrote:I always use grease. Only a thin film. It's only there as barrier to stop the two metals bonding together due to moisture. It also makes it easier to insert.

Before you put the post in check the inside of the seat tube for burrs and sharp edges. If there is any just run a rats tail file over them. A smooth tube makes it easier to insert and stops you scratching the seat post. A pet hate of mine.


Thanks I'll do that. I don't want the seat post all scratched up either.
Even though its only a cheapie I'm taking a bit of pride in this project. :)
It represents a commitment to commuterdom for me.
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Re: steel commuter frame

Postby Nobody » Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:51 am

warthog1 wrote:I reckon I know the stuff you're talking about. Aviation form a gasket or something. Comes in a small bottle/jar with a brush in the lid and is like thick black molasses.
Yeah, that's the one.

warthog1 wrote:How do you go getting the post out again? It doesn't glue it in there?
I also thought this might be the case, but it doesn't work as a glue. Obviously if the post is really hard to insert dry, then grease might be a better option. After applying the gasket, just make sure the post is fully dried before insertion, otherwise it acts more like grease than sealant. Takes at least 10 minutes to set and that's if it's really thin. Wipe any thicker blobs off if possible.
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Re: steel commuter frame

Postby warthog1 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:12 am

No worries, thanks mate.
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Re: steel commuter frame

Postby warthog1 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:44 pm

My wife picked up a couple of boxes from the PO today :)

Crappy iphone pics in low light
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Weighed it on the bathroom scales and its about 2.1kg.
I was hoping it would be a bit heavier actually. I'm after strength and durability on a budget here.
Anyway the welds and paint look pretty good and its supplied with cable stops on the downtube and bolts in the bottle holes and rack mounts, along with a seat clamp.
Going away for a couple of days, so I'll strip the Azzurri and build the Ribble when I get back.
I may have a few questions regarding the headset, :? I'll see how I go.
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Re: steel commuter frame

Postby metalrideroz » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:27 am

Will all those decals come off or are they clearcoated over?
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Re: steel commuter frame

Postby warthog1 » Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:37 pm

clear coated over
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Re: steel commuter frame

Postby warthog1 » Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:04 pm

We didn't end up going away so I have mucked around with it a bit today.
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Coming together ok. The head set bearings were easy.
Had to go to bunnings for a couple of washers to space the front brake mounting bolt out a bit.
I've cut the alloy steerer with a 1-1/8 pipe cutter roughly to length. Might take a bit more off when I get the final set up finalised. The steerer is still a bit longer than the fork on the Azzurri was.
The head tube on this frame is very short. 145mm on a 57cm ETT frame.
Only 5mm longer than the head tube on my 56cm ETT P2 tt frame.
I haven't weighed the old Azzurri frame yet but it does feel substantially lighter than the Ribble.
Hopefully the Ribble will prove more durable. :)
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Re: steel commuter frame

Postby warthog1 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:01 pm

All done :) I quite like the look of it and am very happy how it's turned out. Especially for the price of the frame.

I've set it up very close to the S5 position. Same bars, same reach and a 9.5cm seat/bar drop.

Weighs about 9.9 kg as is, with no effort towards weight weenieism. The rear wheel there is about 1.2 kg.

The old Azzurri alloy/carbon frame was pretty light at 1.35 kg in a 56.5 ETT size. No surprise it let go eventually I guess. It was a lot lighter than I thought. Stripped down it feels ridiculously light, an R5 or the like, must feel featherweight as a bare frame.

Haven't had a good ride on it yet. I'll take it into work on Tuesday night.

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Re: steel commuter frame

Postby Nobody » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:32 pm

Good to see. Looks nice. :)
For a commuter bike, it's still missing spokes and mudguards. Should be interesting if one of the front spokes lets go on the way to work. What mudguards have you decided on? How much flex has the BB got on the trainer compared to the Azzurri?
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Re: steel commuter frame

Postby warthog1 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:51 pm

That front wheel has done a spoke once. With only 16 spokes it got a fair whoop in it. Still made it to work though. It's 7 years old now with a fairly worn rim so I'm just running it out until I decide about a hub dynamo and disc brakes. The rim is fairly heavy on it, so I guess it's still reasonably strong. The rear wheel is cheap rubbish also and has done 4 or so spokes at different times, not for a while though.

Going to get some 35mm sks chromoplastics and mudflaps to attatch or not, once the guards are on.

I haven't done a trainer session for ages now, but that will be the bike I use. I dont expect it to flex as much as the Azzurri, with the shipping spacer in place in the rear drop outs, you can grab the seat stays on the Azzurri and easily flex them by squeezing them together with one hand.

Poor old Azzurri :cry:

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Re: steel commuter frame

Postby warthog1 » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:19 pm

Rode it in to work tonight, a bit over 40kms. I'm still sorting out the fit so had to stop to fleck around with the seat height and angle. Had it a bit high both in the nose and in height.

My wife was hassling me about about spending most of the weekend either riding or mucking around on bikes. Household duties today to make up for it after an 85k bunch ride this morning :p

I've stuffed up the bar rotation/brake hood positioning too, it's not far out but feels quite different to the Cervelo I rode this morning. A bit annoying but I'll get it sorted.

The bike is certainly less responsive than the Cervelo and maybe the Azzurri. It feels a bit more rigid than the Azzurri but still has a nice ride, a bit better than the Azzurri I reckon. Totally different to the CF Cervelo, not better, different. The Cervelo feels stiffer and more responsive but the Ribble is smoother. No surprise there I guess.

I hope it proves durable as I like the look of it and I think I'll enjoy spending time on it, I'm still stumped how they do it for the price. Reynolds tubing and nice welds and paint.

On the short head tube, I guess it's similar to the length of the old threaded steerer frames where you had a fair bit of quill stem poking out?
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Re: steel commuter frame

Postby singlespeedscott » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:37 pm

Your Cervelo probably costs the same to build in China. But Cervelo riders would think that it's cheap junk if they were sold for that price :lol:
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Re: steel commuter frame

Postby warthog1 » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:11 pm

Cheap shot :x :P
The Cervelo is a lot lighter and stiffer and faster. :P I can't see it being walloped out that cheap, but granted I bet they make a lot of money on them.
I reckon the Ribble will be more durable for the daily grind. Don't know if welding is a weakness compared to lug construction? My guess is that lugged is stronger but hopefully the welds don't become a failure point.
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Re: steel commuter frame

Postby singlespeedscott » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:39 pm

Ive been running welded steel MTB's for 20 years. The only ones I have cracked have been aluminum. I think your frame should be plenty durable.
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Re: steel commuter frame

Postby Nobody » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:54 pm

warthog1 wrote:It feels a bit more rigid than the Azzurri but still has a nice ride, a bit better than the Azzurri I reckon. Totally different to the CF Cervelo, not better, different. The Cervelo feels stiffer and more responsive but the Ribble is smoother. No surprise there I guess.
That's what it's about, smoother. And many people who ride steel get the impression it's slower when riding it, but the numbers usually show it's not as slow as they thought. Maybe that's one attraction of Al and C, they feel faster. To some, perception is reality I suppose. When I swapped my steel frame for a bigger Al frame on the MTB it felt faster initially, but I also had to drop the pressure a bit to compensate for the extra rattle too. Al is fine for MTBs where dropping the pressure more doesn't matter much, but I still prefer steel for the road.

warthog1 wrote:I hope it proves durable as I like the look of it and I think I'll enjoy spending time on it, I'm still stumped how they do it for the price. Reynolds tubing and nice welds and paint.
Durability doesn't really matter too much if it's so cheap to replace (other than safety issues). You can start a thread in 5 years called "Ribbles are tough" and I'll probably still laugh if this one cracks too. :P :lol: Although so far, TLL and Twizzle are proving it's true for the Al frames, so at least your wife should be happy if it lasts 20 years.

warthog1 wrote:On the short head tube, I guess it's similar to the length of the old threaded steerer frames where you had a fair bit of quill stem poking out?
AFAIK this frame is new. They only had Al frames a few years ago and the headset style suggests fairly new as well. I suppose steel is heavy (and Reynolds expensive) so they don't want to overdo it if unnecessary. Mine is only 9.5cm, but it's a CX bike technically.
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Re: steel commuter frame

Postby warthog1 » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:55 pm

Great thanks for that. It feels strong to ride, I'm giving it a thumbs up.
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Re: steel commuter frame

Postby Nobody » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:03 pm

warthog1 wrote:Don't know if welding is a weakness compared to lug construction? My guess is that lugged is stronger but hopefully the welds don't become a failure point.
You're right, lugged is usually stronger, but a bit heavier and more expensive to make, labor wise.

As SSS said, welding shouldn't be a problem. I've got a 22 year old MTB frameset which is fairly rusted (as I sweat a lot). I've lent it to a friend who does about 10K a year and it's still going. Can't say I expect too much longer out of it, but we'll see.
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Re: steel commuter frame

Postby warthog1 » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:06 pm

Nobody wrote:AFAIK this frame is new. They only had Al frames a few years ago and the headset style suggests fairly new as well. I suppose steel is heavy (and Reynolds expensive) so they don't want to overdo it if unnecessary. Mine is only 9.5cm, but it's a CX bike technically.


I'm just thinking maybe they had shorter head tubes on older style frames given this is probably the target market. You're probably right about them just saving material costs though you cynical bugger :)

Why do cx bikes run shorter head tubes? Is it because of the longer axle to crown lengths on the forks they use?
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Re: steel commuter frame

Postby Nobody » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:16 pm

warthog1 wrote:I'm just thinking maybe they had shorter head tubes on older style frames given this is probably the target market. You're probably right about them just saving material costs though you cynical bugger :)
After reading the UK online mags and seeing what the local UK manufacturers bring out, I get the impression that steel has a much stronger following there than here. Seems strange to me as I thought rust might be more of a problem there. Maybe they have worse back roads than us (although that is hard to image at times). :roll:

warthog1 wrote:Why do cx bikes run shorter head tubes? Is it because of the longer axle to crown lengths on the forks they use?
Yes. My A to C is about 2.5cm longer than a road bike. Mine is a small frame too (46/53).
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Re: steel commuter frame

Postby warthog1 » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:18 pm

Nobody wrote:
As SSS said, welding shouldn't be a problem. I've got a 22 year old MTB frameset which is fairly rusted (as I sweat a lot). I've lent it to a friend who does about 10K a year and it's still going. Can't say I expect too much longer out of it, but we'll see.


Hopefully I get 23 years out of my legs let alone the frame :o that is very durable :8

My God I hope I'm not doing the current job in 23 years. I'm just about over it now. Shift work sux.
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