Power Meter Deal Thread

Questions about purchasing bicycles and parts

Re: Power Meter Deal Thread

Postby jacks1071 » Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:50 pm

jcjordan wrote:The distributors for Power2Max are in NZ and they are a delight to deal with.

I went with P2M over Quarq due to the problems with needing to factory recalibrate every time you Chang the rings.

I ever so glad I did as I have seen some real quality control issues from the friends that I ride with. Plus the external magnet need for cadence seems to be a derailleur killer.

P2M did have a temp problem with the earlier units (although mine never did) but the newer versions have locked this.

I think the main benefits when comparing to SRM is the usability by the average rider. Plus it's about half the cost.

Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk 4


You can select different chain rings and do the calibration change using an iphone app and a ant+ dongle on the Quark - they provide the numbers you should enter on their website based on your selected rings. That might not have been available when you were looking but has been out for sometime now.

If you have a calibrated weight you can also re-calibrate them at home using the same free app with the ant+ dongle.
Our Website is: http://www.pro-liteoz.com Find us on Facebook by searching for "Pro-Lite Australia"
User avatar
jacks1071
 
Posts: 2897
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:47 pm
Location: Mackay, QLD

by BNA » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:27 pm

BNA
 

Re: Power Meter Deal Thread

Postby Le Mong » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:27 pm

jacks1071 wrote:
jcjordan wrote:The distributors for Power2Max are in NZ and they are a delight to deal with.

I went with P2M over Quarq due to the problems with needing to factory recalibrate every time you Chang the rings.

I ever so glad I did as I have seen some real quality control issues from the friends that I ride with. Plus the external magnet need for cadence seems to be a derailleur killer.

P2M did have a temp problem with the earlier units (although mine never did) but the newer versions have locked this.

I think the main benefits when comparing to SRM is the usability by the average rider. Plus it's about half the cost.

Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk 4


You can select different chain rings and do the calibration change using an iphone app and a ant+ dongle on the Quark - they provide the numbers you should enter on their website based on your selected rings. That might not have been available when you were looking but has been out for sometime now.

If you have a calibrated weight you can also re-calibrate them at home using the same free app with the ant+ dongle.


Thats ok if you have Crapple devices and an ant dongle for one
Le Mong
 
Posts: 417
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:15 pm

Re: Power Meter Deal Thread

Postby dalai47 » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:31 pm

Le Mong wrote:Thats ok if you have Crapple devices and an ant dongle for one


If you understand the importance of accurate data and owned a Quarq, this would be acquired...

Or you could send it to Alex. http://www.rstsport.com/event-products- ... ration.htm
dalai47
 
Posts: 540
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:28 am

Re: Power Meter Deal Thread

Postby jcjordan » Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:17 pm

jacks1071 wrote:
jcjordan wrote:The distributors for Power2Max are in NZ and they are a delight to deal with.

I went with P2M over Quarq due to the problems with needing to factory recalibrate every time you Chang the rings.

I ever so glad I did as I have seen some real quality control issues from the friends that I ride with. Plus the external magnet need for cadence seems to be a derailleur killer.

P2M did have a temp problem with the earlier units (although mine never did) but the newer versions have locked this.

I think the main benefits when comparing to SRM is the usability by the average rider. Plus it's about half the cost.

Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk 4


You can select different chain rings and do the calibration change using an iphone app and a ant+ dongle on the Quark - they provide the numbers you should enter on their website based on your selected rings. That might not have been available when you were looking but has been out for sometime now.

If you have a calibrated weight you can also re-calibrate them at home using the same free app with the ant+ dongle.


This is only possible now with the new Rikin and Elsa versions.

As mentioned you need a Apple device, ant reciver and app.

Also need a good torque wrench as the bolts need to be tighten to a very specific setting

Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk 4
James
Veni, Vidi, Vespa -- I Came, I Saw, I Rode Home
jcjordan
 
Posts: 1048
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:58 pm

Re: Power Meter Deal Thread

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:05 pm

jcjordan wrote:
jacks1071 wrote:
jcjordan wrote:The distributors for Power2Max are in NZ and they are a delight to deal with.

I went with P2M over Quarq due to the problems with needing to factory recalibrate every time you Chang the rings.

I ever so glad I did as I have seen some real quality control issues from the friends that I ride with. Plus the external magnet need for cadence seems to be a derailleur killer.

P2M did have a temp problem with the earlier units (although mine never did) but the newer versions have locked this.

I think the main benefits when comparing to SRM is the usability by the average rider. Plus it's about half the cost.

Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk 4


You can select different chain rings and do the calibration change using an iphone app and a ant+ dongle on the Quark - they provide the numbers you should enter on their website based on your selected rings. That might not have been available when you were looking but has been out for sometime now.

If you have a calibrated weight you can also re-calibrate them at home using the same free app with the ant+ dongle.


This is only possible now with the new Rikin and Elsa versions.

As mentioned you need a Apple device, ant reciver and app.

Also need a good torque wrench as the bolts need to be tighten to a very specific setting

Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk 4


I'm pretty sure the P2M needs its chainring bolts to be torqued to spec as well. P2M might claim no need to check / change calibration when changing chainrings but given few would have actually changed chainrings yet, I think we'll give them a couple of years before passing judgement on that.

An inability to change any power meter's slope is a problem, IMO.

There is an Android version of Quarq's Qalvin free app, although it's a little trickier to get working than the Apple version (which works very well), it is available and works with a USB ANT+ stick (instead of the Wahoo ANT+ key neede for Apple devices).

SRM is the easiest of the lot as the slope can be changed directly on the head unit or via SRMwin software, no additional items needed.
User avatar
Alex Simmons/RST
Expert
 
Posts: 3414
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:51 pm

Re: Power Meter Deal Thread

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:09 pm

jcjordan wrote:I think the main benefits when comparing to SRM is the usability by the average rider.

I'm curious as to what you think makes the P2M more usable than an SRM, which in my experience is really a very straight forward power meter to use.

Just start riding and it'll work and the zero process is the simplest of all the power meters.
User avatar
Alex Simmons/RST
Expert
 
Posts: 3414
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:51 pm

Re: Power Meter Deal Thread

Postby jcjordan » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:30 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
jcjordan wrote:I think the main benefits when comparing to SRM is the usability by the average rider.

I'm curious as to what you think makes the P2M more usable than an SRM, which in my experience is really a very straight forward power meter to use.

Just start riding and it'll work and the zero process is the simplest of all the power meters.


Primarily this is around battery replacement. With P2M the user can do this in 5 minutes which compared to having to send the SRM back and you are without your cranks for a week minimum.

As for bolt torque the setup for q quarq was very specific in the instructions that I used to help a mates system that the value had to be exact. The P2M just has a recommendation as you find on carbon parts.

As for chain ring replacement I would regularly swap my inner ring between sizes when I would do hilly events like the three peaks.

I have rotary on at the moment and put it up against a powertap hub and the readings were within 5watt range.

Don't know how well the new quarq's are as good as not met anyone using them yet.

Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk 4
James
Veni, Vidi, Vespa -- I Came, I Saw, I Rode Home
jcjordan
 
Posts: 1048
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:58 pm

Re: Power Meter Deal Thread

Postby J Quinton » Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:01 am

jcjordan wrote: Plus the external magnet need for cadence seems to be a derailleur killer.




What do you mean?
J Quinton
 
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:52 pm

Re: Power Meter Deal Thread

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:04 am

jcjordan wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
jcjordan wrote:I think the main benefits when comparing to SRM is the usability by the average rider.

I'm curious as to what you think makes the P2M more usable than an SRM, which in my experience is really a very straight forward power meter to use.

Just start riding and it'll work and the zero process is the simplest of all the power meters.


Primarily this is around battery replacement. With P2M the user can do this in 5 minutes which compared to having to send the SRM back and you are without your cranks for a week minimum.

As for bolt torque the setup for q quarq was very specific in the instructions that I used to help a mates system that the value had to be exact. The P2M just has a recommendation as you find on carbon parts.

As for chain ring replacement I would regularly swap my inner ring between sizes when I would do hilly events like the three peaks.

I have rotary on at the moment and put it up against a powertap hub and the readings were within 5watt range.

Don't know how well the new quarq's are as good as not met anyone using them yet.

Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk 4

If I were you, I would check the calibration between rings, despite what they say. Trust but verify. Which is reasonable given P2M said there was no temperature drift problem either, until they changed firmware to fix it.

New model SRMs have a 3000 hour usage battery life.
User avatar
Alex Simmons/RST
Expert
 
Posts: 3414
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:51 pm

Re: Power Meter Deal Thread

Postby jcjordan » Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:57 am

J Quinton wrote:
jcjordan wrote: Plus the external magnet need for cadence seems to be a derailleur killer.




What do you mean?


One of my club mates has killed two Di2 derailleurs due to a magnet coming off, sticking to the chain and has gummed in the jockey wheel causing destruction.

Looking on line he is not the only one

Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk 4
James
Veni, Vidi, Vespa -- I Came, I Saw, I Rode Home
jcjordan
 
Posts: 1048
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:58 pm

Re: Power Meter Deal Thread

Postby jcjordan » Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:10 am

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
jcjordan wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:[quote="jcjordan"]I think the main benefits when comparing to SRM is the usability by the average rider.

I'm curious as to what you think makes the P2M more usable than an SRM, which in my experience is really a very straight forward power meter to use.

Just start riding and it'll work and the zero process is the simplest of all the power meters.


Primarily this is around battery replacement. With P2M the user can do this in 5 minutes which compared to having to send the SRM back and you are without your cranks for a week minimum.

As for bolt torque the setup for q quarq was very specific in the instructions that I used to help a mates system that the value had to be exact. The P2M just has a recommendation as you find on carbon parts.

As for chain ring replacement I would regularly swap my inner ring between sizes when I would do hilly events like the three peaks.

I have rotary on at the moment and put it up against a powertap hub and the readings were within 5watt range.

Don't know how well the new quarq's are as good as not met anyone using them yet.

Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk 4

If I were you, I would check the calibration between rings, despite what they say. Trust but verify. Which is reasonable given P2M said there was no temperature drift problem either, until they changed firmware to fix it.

New model SRMs have a 3000 hour usage battery life.[/quote]

Very true, which is why I put it up against a PT hub which acted as the control for both sets of rings.

3000 is a real improvement but being without my cranks for a week when I had a warranty issue with my P2M really annoyed me. Having to do this on a yearly basis is a deal killer in my opinion.

Just one question can you turn off the cranks when travelling? I have accidentally for gotten to do this with my P2M and killed a battery on a long drive

Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk 4
James
Veni, Vidi, Vespa -- I Came, I Saw, I Rode Home
jcjordan
 
Posts: 1048
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:58 pm

Re: Power Meter Deal Thread

Postby Ross » Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:32 pm

jcjordan wrote:
J Quinton wrote:
jcjordan wrote: Plus the external magnet need for cadence seems to be a derailleur killer.




What do you mean?


One of my club mates has killed two Di2 derailleurs due to a magnet coming off, sticking to the chain and has gummed in the jockey wheel causing destruction.

Looking on line he is not the only one

Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk 4


That would be me. :oops:

Image
Image
User avatar
Ross
 
Posts: 3731
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:53 pm

Re: Power Meter Deal Thread

Postby jcjordan » Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:54 pm

Thanks Ross

Did not want to add to your suffering by naming you :-P

Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk 4
James
Veni, Vidi, Vespa -- I Came, I Saw, I Rode Home
jcjordan
 
Posts: 1048
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:58 pm

Re: Power Meter Deal Thread

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:59 pm

jcjordan wrote:Very true, which is why I put it up against a PT hub which acted as the control for both sets of rings.

Interesting, perhaps you could share the files from both meters, then have some imputed gear, bin force plots and standard overlay of power plots to see how they stack up.

jcjordan wrote:3000 is a real improvement but being without my cranks for a week when I had a warranty issue with my P2M really annoyed me. Having to do this on a yearly basis is a deal killer in my opinion.

Just one question can you turn off the cranks when travelling? I have accidentally for gotten to do this with my P2M and killed a battery on a long drive

Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk 4

I think you have SRM battery issues confused. Even older SRMs lasted 2-3 years of regular use before battery upgrade was needed.

The newer 3,000 hour battery life is 3,000 riding hours.

The SRM automatically turns on/off as needed and has done this for 25 years, simply by rotating the cranks (or being idle for a set period).

Didn't realise you had to turn on/off the P2M, so I have no idea how you would do that. RTFM presumably.
User avatar
Alex Simmons/RST
Expert
 
Posts: 3414
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:51 pm

Re: Power Meter Deal Thread

Postby jcjordan » Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:13 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
jcjordan wrote:Very true, which is why I put it up against a PT hub which acted as the control for both sets of rings.

Interesting, perhaps you could share the files from both meters, then have some imputed gear, bin force plots and standard overlay of power plots to see how they stack up.

jcjordan wrote:3000 is a real improvement but being without my cranks for a week when I had a warranty issue with my P2M really annoyed me. Having to do this on a yearly basis is a deal killer in my opinion.

Just one question can you turn off the cranks when travelling? I have accidentally for gotten to do this with my P2M and killed a battery on a long drive

Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk 4

I think you have SRM battery issues confused. Even older SRMs lasted 2-3 years of regular use before battery upgrade was needed.

The newer 3,000 hour battery life is 3,000 riding hours.

The SRM automatically turns on/off as needed and has done this for 25 years, simply by rotating the cranks (or being idle for a set period).

Didn't realise you had to turn on/off the P2M, so I have no idea how you would do that. RTFM presumably.


I don't have PT files but will try and find them or at least see if I can replicate them by doing the test again.

Turn off was probably a bad term. The cranks will start to transmit if once you begin to turn them. When travelling they can do this if you have enough vibration which happened to me last year for the gandfondo in Lorne. Fortunately the battery is a 2 minute effort to change.

I did get my figures muddled for the SRM battery. You are right it would be a change every other year. Do older models get the same life with new batteries?

Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk 4
James
Veni, Vidi, Vespa -- I Came, I Saw, I Rode Home
jcjordan
 
Posts: 1048
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:58 pm

Re: Power Meter Deal Thread

Postby takai » Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:48 pm

jcjordan wrote:
J Quinton wrote:
jcjordan wrote: Plus the external magnet need for cadence seems to be a derailleur killer.




What do you mean?


One of my club mates has killed two Di2 derailleurs due to a magnet coming off, sticking to the chain and has gummed in the jockey wheel causing destruction.

Looking on line he is not the only one

Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk 4

A couple of drops of glue fixes that one, its the same issue that anyone with a Garmin who uses a rare earth magnet on the pedal spindle faces.
takai
 
Posts: 159
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:06 pm

Re: Power Meter Deal Thread

Postby dalai47 » Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:56 pm

jcjordan wrote:Do older models get the same life with new batteries?


At least in regards to the head unit (PCV), SRM Oceania are now replacing the battery (including a modification to the charge circuit) with a new lithium one which is much better and supposedly lasts alot longer. Not sure about the cranks - last battery change on my road bike was after 3 years I think. Track cranks and TT bike cranks are still running the same batteries since I bought them second hand a while back.
dalai47
 
Posts: 540
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:28 am

Re: Power Meter Deal Thread

Postby Ross » Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:13 pm

takai wrote:A couple of drops of glue fixes that one, its the same issue that anyone with a Garmin who uses a rare earth magnet on the pedal spindle faces.


Magnet was Araldited on but the chain came of the front and brushed the magnet off the bracket and onto the chain and then through the derailleur. I think the only solution is to bolt the magnet onto the bracket.
Image
User avatar
Ross
 
Posts: 3731
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:53 pm

Re: Power Meter Deal Thread

Postby J Quinton » Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:27 pm

Not good.

Would you buy them again if this didn't happen?
J Quinton
 
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:52 pm

Re: Power Meter Deal Thread

Postby MDL » Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:21 pm

Have a Stages.... What can I say can't fault it. New updated software again out last week (opp's 2 weeks ago)

MDL
Image
MDL
 
Posts: 306
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:18 am
Location: Toowoomba QLD

Re: Power Meter Deal Thread

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:26 am

jcjordan wrote:Turn off was probably a bad term. The cranks will start to transmit if once you begin to turn them. When travelling they can do this if you have enough vibration which happened to me last year for the gandfondo in Lorne. Fortunately the battery is a 2 minute effort to change.

That is possibly a downside of using accelerometers instead of reed switches.

Maybe put a large rubber band or strip of velcro around the cranks so they don't move. Else, carry spare batteries!

jcjordan wrote:I did get my figures muddled for the SRM battery. You are right it would be a change every other year. Do older models get the same life with new batteries?

As Dalai sais, SRM use latest batteries when doing a service change. And my experience is same, they tend to last longer than SRM says they will. I have 4 SRMs, I think my most recent update was in 2010, and longer for the others. The oldest (>10 years) has only had two battery changes.

Some people source and do their own battery change but it's a job for those so inclined and have confidence with a bit of soldering. I can solder but I still prefer SRM to do it.
User avatar
Alex Simmons/RST
Expert
 
Posts: 3414
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:51 pm

Re: Power Meter Deal Thread

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:01 pm

Ross wrote:
takai wrote:A couple of drops of glue fixes that one, its the same issue that anyone with a Garmin who uses a rare earth magnet on the pedal spindle faces.


Magnet was Araldited on but the chain came of the front and brushed the magnet off the bracket and onto the chain and then through the derailleur. I think the only solution is to bolt the magnet onto the bracket.

Funny, this is the first time I've ever heard of this happening. I wouldn't recommend araldite for such a job though.
User avatar
Alex Simmons/RST
Expert
 
Posts: 3414
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:51 pm

Re: Power Meter Deal Thread

Postby jcjordan » Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:28 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
jcjordan wrote:

Some people source and do their own battery change but it's a job for those so inclined and have confidence with a bit of soldering. I can solder but I still prefer SRM to do it.

Good to know on the battery as I am watching a wired V 7800 on eBay. The cranks are a bit shot but I understand it's fairly easy for SRM to swap.

Be good for the training bike if I can get them cheap


Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk 4
James
Veni, Vidi, Vespa -- I Came, I Saw, I Rode Home
jcjordan
 
Posts: 1048
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:58 pm

Re: Power Meter Deal Thread

Postby J Quinton » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:25 pm

Just received this update from Brim Brothers:

Dear J Quinton,

I'm writing to you because you are one of the many people who pre-ordered a Zone power meter from Brim Brothers, and we want to bring you up to date with how we're doing.

We're still working hard, and making progress, although time is slipping past far more quickly than we planned. The Zone power meter is now in field tests, but the work of dealing with the many tasks to get it into volume production is like climbing the Alpe d'Huez or Mont Ventoux at the end of a long Tour de France stage. We can see the top, we know we're getting there, and we just have to keep pushing!

At the moment our plan is to launch the power meter in the first few months of 2014. While that's later than we had hoped, we're putting a huge effort into meeting this schedule. We're very aware that our deadline has slipped a number of times. All we can say in our defence is that the time needed to develop innovative technology and put it into production is very difficult to predict. Over the last six months the company has gone through some structural changes, and we now have extra resources and renewed commitment to our goals.

We are still not announcing a price, but we are keeping a very close watch on trends in the power meter market. Price will be announced much closer to launch.

Speedplay Zero is still the pedal/cleat system that our first version will work with.

One piece of new information I can give you now is that the Zone power meter will provide the new "torque effectiveness" and "pedal smoothness" values that some Garmin displays will be able to show. These two data values will provide a measure of your cycling style and efficiency. In general, the Zone will work with any ANT+ display that can show power and cadence, and if the display is able to show them you will also see left/right power balance, torque effectiveness, and pedal smoothness.

Lastly, we'll be attending Eurobike on 28th and 29th August, and Interbike on 18th, 19th and 20th September. If you will be at either of those, then please let us know. We'd love to meet you and find out what you want from your Zone power meter.

Thanks for your patience and support,
Barry Redmond
CEO, Brim Brothers
brimbrothers.com
J Quinton
 
Posts: 213
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:52 pm

Re: Power Meter Deal Thread

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:31 pm

J Quinton wrote:Just received this update from Brim Brothers:

Thanks for sharing. Given the Vector took ~4 years from product public launch to actually being available, it's no surprise they have slipping deadlines as well.

J Quinton wrote:These two data values will provide a measure of your cycling style and efficiency.

Ugh, I really wish they would all (i.e. not just Brim) stop misusing the word "efficiency".

No on-bike power meter can measure efficiency, since no power meter can measure an individual's metabolic rate.
User avatar
Alex Simmons/RST
Expert
 
Posts: 3414
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:51 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Buying a bike / parts

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], hamshull, SuperDan



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU

“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter

> FREE BNA Stickers
> BNA Cycling Kit