Introduction to tubular

minhyy
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Introduction to tubular

Postby minhyy » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:49 pm

Always been curious about tubulars and the supposed benefits of riding them, so I am about to acquire a retro tubular wheelset for cheap to find out what all the fuss is about.

What is a cheap but not completely crap tubular tire to start off with? A lot of options online will result in a pair of tires costing more than the wheelset

Your opinions about glue vs tape?

FWIW I don't abuse my gear, I don't race, I just go for either cruisy strolls or medium/mildly intense rides on late 80s/early 90s steel bikes if that provides context of my riding habits

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2wheels_mond
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby 2wheels_mond » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:56 pm

Vittoria Rally's pretty cheap, $26 on Wiggle, comes in sizes up to 700x25 and even in a black/tan version for an older bike.

dalai47
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby dalai47 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:26 pm

Cheap tubulars ride worse than good clinchers! At least spend around $50 per tyre (Vittoria Evo CX's can be found around this price).

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Thoglette
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby Thoglette » Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:05 pm

minhyy wrote:Always been curious about tubulars and the supposed benefits of riding them, so I am about to acquire a retro tubular wheelset for cheap to find out what all the fuss is about.


The physics is straight forward - for a given tyre size, there is more non-rigid sidewall providing flexibility. IE more comfortable. All other things being equal, the rims are lighter too.

The fuss is mostly one upmanship (unless you're racing). Guilty as charged, y'honour! :D

The downside is carrying a complete tyre which is a bit bigger than a tube plus tyre irons.

minhyy wrote:What is a cheap but not completely crap tubular tire to start off with? A lot of options online will result in a pair of tires costing more than the wheelset


The inexpensive tubular to get is the Yellow Jersey Servizio Corsa In my experience, much better than the cheapies from the big names.

Removable valve stems too, so Stan's No Tubes can be appied in case of puncture.

Get the set of three so you have a (pre-glued) spare. I'm about to get another set if you (or anyone else) wants to split postage.

minhyy wrote:Your opinions about glue vs tape?
Glue all the way. Get a tin and some disposable brushes. Gluing is easy
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jacks1071
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby jacks1071 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:07 pm

dalai47 wrote:Cheap tubulars ride worse than good clinchers! At least spend around $50 per tyre (Vittoria Evo CX's can be found around this price).


I second that, if you're not going to use good tyres might as well not bother.
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march83
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby march83 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:43 pm

2wheels_mond wrote:Vittoria Rally's pretty cheap, $26 on Wiggle, comes in sizes up to 700x25 and even in a black/tan version for an older bike.


op specifically said "not completely crap"...

vittoria corsa elite is a not-terrible and also relatively inexpensive place to start: http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... itttuba782

occasionally vittora corsa cx or sc will be available for less than AU$50 and that's a pretty good price.

have a look for closeouts too - i got a few vredstein fortezzas a few seasons ago for about $30 each and they were great for the money...
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Thoglette
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby Thoglette » Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:20 pm

dalai47 wrote:Cheap tubulars ride worse than good clinchers! At least spend around $50 per tyre (Vittoria Evo CX's can be found around this price).

jacks1071 wrote:I second that, if you're not going to use good tyres might as well not bother.


Once upon a time I would have agreed. And loudly.

Then I found the Yellow Jersey tubulars. Still, only one size (21mm), one tread and two colours.

If the OP has $150+ to throw down for a pair and a spare, then better tyres can be found, for sure. Doubling your money should result in an improvement.
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Derny Driver
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby Derny Driver » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:37 pm

I have 2 Vittoria Corsa SC 23mm tubulars ....one new, one lightly used (roughly $60 each on Wiggle), and a Continental Giro 22mm as new (approx. $36 on Wiggle) just sitting here.
Make a ridiculous offer offer if interested. I can post.
Cheers, DD

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open roader
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby open roader » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:14 pm

minhyy wrote:What is a cheap but not completely crap tubular tire to start off with?


Decent tubular tyres need not be way more expensive than decent clinchers. That said unless you have a discount code or find a sale, tubular tyres cost more than equivalent clincher versions, however, my point is that you simply do not ride tubulars to practice uber economics, you ride them because you appreciate their superior vibration absorbsion and rolling capacity at low tyre pressures.

minhyy wrote: I just go for either cruisy strolls or medium/mildly intense rides on late 80s/early 90s steel bikes


My kind of riding too. If you are looking for best comfort without rolling resistance penalty then I'd suggest opting for a 25mm tubular. My experience was that I liked how 25mm clinchers offered comfort but at the pressures I wanted to run I came across pinch flat issues - switched to tubulars and thus far (thousands of km later) am yet to cop a pinch flat on a tubular tyre with tyre pressures as low as 75 front and 85 rear.

If you are going to experiement with tubulars then give it a chance and avoid going cheap and heavy in the tyre department, this need not mean that you must spend a lot to conduct the experiment.
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minhyy
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby minhyy » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:41 pm

PMs sent round

Thanks all for your responses so far, keep them coming.

So far, the fanciest tire I ride is Vittoria Rubino clinchers, so should I expect a sudden increased joy of riding?

Are tubbies the missing piece of the puzzle to attain that magic carpet ride?
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Thoglette
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby Thoglette » Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:40 am

minhyy wrote:Are tubbies the missing piece of the puzzle to attain that magic carpet ride?


45mm tyres at 45psi are pretty dreamy

If you can't have them the fattest tubbies you can fit with the most supple sidewalls (nominally highest tpi) will give the nicest ride.

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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby Espresso_ » Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:01 pm

minhyy wrote:Are tubbies the missing piece of the puzzle to attain that magic carpet ride?


Nope - Grand Bois Hetres are needed for that.

But I think tubulars would be pretty good anyway.

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eeksll
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby eeksll » Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:53 am

Thoglette wrote:Removable valve stems too, so Stan's No Tubes can be appied in case of puncture.


Is there a common method for doing this? add sealant only if puncture? or add just add regardless?

any experience with the longevity of stans or any other sealant in tubulars? I know stans turns into a solid ball after sometime (had it on the MTB), inside a tubulur is another issue I guess, any experience with this?

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Thoglette
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby Thoglette » Mon Oct 27, 2014 5:39 pm

eeksll wrote:any experience with the longevity of stans or any other sealant in tubulars?


I only use when I get a flat - no point having it slowly ruining the tyre. Only happened once, tyre still fine more than a year later, if a little heavier and with a small bump where the Stan's did what it had to.

Plus I don't need an extra 2oz in each tyre (I have enough weight on my "spare tyre" as it is)
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minhyy
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby minhyy » Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:47 pm

quick update as I've been a bit busy with studies:

1. obtained a pair of Vittoria Corsa SC tubs thanks to Derny Driver

2. obtained a set of Pelissier 2000 hubs laced to Wolber Profil 18 rims with some tires already glued on and in good condition.. so I might use them for the time being

3. I need an 8 speed screw on cluster.. sourcing at the moment

I will post pictures soon (promise)
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby ironhanglider » Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:52 pm

Oohh I like Profil 18s. They were originally designated "for track or road time-trial use" However I got 7 seasons out of them as road race wheels before the rear suffered fatigue cracking around the spoke holes and I had to replace it with a Mach 2 or something. I later parted with those wheels (and some others) in exchange for some WH-7401 clinchers (which I still have). I wouldn't make the same trade now even though they are very light rims and needed all of the 32 spokes I built them up with.

They don't have parallel rim surfaces for braking, so a little pad shaping might be in order.

BTW don't trust anyone else's glue job. Test it yourself to see whether you are happy that the tyres will hold on. Some glues deteriorate with age, some people skimp on glue. When in doubt, reglue.

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Thoglette
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby Thoglette » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:45 pm

ironhanglider wrote:Test it yourself to see whether you are happy that the tyres will hold on. Some glues deteriorate with age, some people skimp on glue.

+1 I've got some old, old wheels with tubs still glued solidly. And others where the old glue turned to dust as I wiggled the tyre.

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minhyy
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby minhyy » Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:21 pm

bump..

I've not been able to find a tin of tubular cement yet that will be suitable for gluing 3 wheelsets between my brother and I: buying individual tubes is not cost effective

However, I've been practicing mounting the semi-glued Vittorias on the rims:
Image

Centering is important +++++

And here is something that I will probably post up in the Shed section too. These wheels came with custom machined internal threaded locknuts which have extended the OLD to 137mm!? These hubs (Pelissier 2000) would have originally been 120mm or 126mm OLD. I also need an 8 speed freewheel.

Image

delays..
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Thoglette
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby Thoglette » Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:55 pm

minhyy wrote:..
I've not been able to find a tin of tubular cement yet that will be suitable for gluing 3 wheelsets between my brother and I: buying individual tubes is not cost effective
.


Wiggle.com.au?
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minhyy
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby minhyy » Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:17 pm

Thoglette wrote:
minhyy wrote:..
I've not been able to find a tin of tubular cement yet that will be suitable for gluing 3 wheelsets between my brother and I: buying individual tubes is not cost effective
.


Wiggle.com.au?


they don't stock it anymore, unfortunately
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Thoglette
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby Thoglette » Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:13 am

minhyy wrote:they don't stock it anymore, unfortunately


Found a tin and a large tube
http://www.pushys.com.au/schwalbe-tubul ... -180g.html
http://www.bikeshopsydney.com.au/schwal ... e-90g.html
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Thoglette
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby Thoglette » Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:13 am

2015-01-26 Cell bikes has Vittoria Corsa Evo CX III on sale (effectively half price) :D :D
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minhyy
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby minhyy » Fri Mar 20, 2015 3:04 pm

Been a while between drinks here, but the wheels are finally up and running as of this morning:

Image

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many thanks again to derny driver for the tires

ended up buying a tin of mastik one from cell during one of their free postage blitzes - in retrospect tubes will be the way to go for future gluing as for this first time my brother and I had a couple of wheelsets to glue up

Image
rectified the rear hub spacing by replacing the "original", albeit very light titanium (I think) axle) with a threaded axle from a parts rear hub and a combination of spacers to ensure that the spacing was 130mm while preserving the dish and centering within the frame

also running a Sachs 8 speed freewheel, 13-21. there is absolutely no clearance for the chain on the 13t, where it binds against the seat stay. So for now, rather than shift the hub over and redish the wheel, I've locked off the top gear and am using the other 7 as a 14-21.

I've only ridden up and down the street so far, but things feel a lot smoother so far (a 90s bike at 8.1kg with the new wheelset helps too). Will take it easy at first before I throw the bike into corners..

bonus
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brakes suddenly feel heaps stronger on this rim compared to the previous clincher Deep Vs I was using

thanks again to everyone for tips and recommendations :idea: . aiming to update again after a few months riding
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Derny Driver
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby Derny Driver » Fri Mar 20, 2015 4:33 pm

Looks awesome mate, good job!

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mambo
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby mambo » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:05 pm

I've not had bad experiences with Tufo and can't be bothered messing around with glue. The new Cafelatex Carogna tape looks interesting:

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/arti ... lue-43879/

As to Stans, I ride enough to be able to cut open a used tubular and re-use the Stans in the next one. For training clinchers I put it straight into the new tubular (Conti Gator Sprinters) and for racing or weekend warrior rides (Conti Competitions) I use it if I puncture. I always carry a spare bottle as I've had an experience where chucking an extra 1/2 bottle in sealed the puncture and saved me the hassle of swopping tubs.
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