Introduction to tubular

yellagonga
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby yellagonga » Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:10 am

You can't afford to get a puncture on tubs because you cant just change the tyre on the side of the road.

I use the indestructable gator skin tubular tyres Tyres will wear out before they get a puncture.

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Thoglette
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby Thoglette » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:04 am

yellagonga wrote:You can't afford to get a puncture on tubs because you cant just change the tyre on the side of the road.


Says who? People have been doing it for over 100 years. Including me. And Philippe Thys, winner of the 1914 TdF. I carry one pre-glued spare in my (slightly larger than normal) seat bag rather than wearing them heroically over my shoulders

But these days one can also a carry little bottle of tyre sealant. Which is magic stuff.
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(found an older thread . The gatorskin has a fan)
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby open roader » Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:28 pm

yellagonga wrote:You can't afford to get a puncture on tubs because you cant just change the tyre on the side of the road.


Thoglette wrote:Says who?
+1

That statement is patently incorrect.

Some people may not wish to carry a spare pre-glued tubular tyre and peel off (or cut off) the damaged tyre, however, many tubular riders do and have this as an everyday fall back contingency.

I'd even go so far as to suggest that if one had the misfortune to have plenty of practice changing a tubular on the side of the road that the time taken to switch over a tubular would be commensurate to changing over an inner tube on a clincher.
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby ironhanglider » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:34 pm

open roader wrote:
yellagonga wrote:You can't afford to get a puncture on tubs because you cant just change the tyre on the side of the road.


Thoglette wrote:Says who?
+1

That statement is patently incorrect.

Some people may not wish to carry a spare pre-glued tubular tyre and peel off (or cut off) the damaged tyre, however, many tubular riders do and have this as an everyday fall back contingency.

I'd even go so far as to suggest that if one had the misfortune to have plenty of practice changing a tubular on the side of the road that the time taken to switch over a tubular would be commensurate to changing over an inner tube on a clincher.


A lot depends on the quality of the glue job. Back in the 80's I knew riders who would skimp on glue to save weight :shock: or only glue alternate sections between spoke holes. For those riders peeling a tube off and putting another on was much faster than could be achieved with a clincher. With gas cartridges it would be much faster again, particularly since you won't get a blow-off with tubulars. Since you are putting a new tyre on, there is a further time saving since there is no need to check the old one for the source of the puncture. For that reason I carry a spare tubular and gas canister with me on my commuting bike (which runs clinchers) since I can be back on the road and on my way to work faster than I can be with changing a tube. Running a tubular on clincher rim is not a long term proposition, but it is certainly good enough to get you to the end of the journey. BTW my commute is only 10km, so time spent dealing with a flat is much more significant in proportion to ride time than it would be if I had a longer ride.

Cheers,

Cameron
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby Thoglette » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:31 pm

ironhanglider wrote: Running a tubular on clincher rim is not a long term proposition,


Unless you buy Tufo's hybrids
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yellagonga
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby yellagonga » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:38 pm

The pre injected goo and carrying a spare tubular tyre is bulky, extra weight and superseeded by gator skins. It removes any benefit of running tubs. Just use gator skins, you won't get a flat.

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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby Thoglette » Thu Jun 04, 2015 7:32 pm

minhyy wrote:they don't stock it anymore, unfortunately


Pushy's just spammed me to say they have Schwalbe tins back in stock. :D
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby GAV!N » Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:01 am

I've just got my first puncture on tubs.

What's the consensus on repairing with sealant? Is it worth it long term, or just good for getting home really. The hole is reasonably big, right in the middle, so my concern is if anything hits it again it will just again.

I only use them for racing, so not keen to miss out on another finish too soon :p

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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby Derny Driver » Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:31 pm

GAV!N wrote:I've just got my first puncture on tubs.

What's the consensus on repairing with sealant? Is it worth it long term, or just good for getting home really. The hole is reasonably big, right in the middle, so my concern is if anything hits it again it will just again.

I only use them for racing, so not keen to miss out on another finish too soon :p

Bin it mate.
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby GAV!N » Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:13 pm

Yeah it was nothing flash. Bought the wheels 2nd hand and it was already on. Panaracer I think. It was your stupid roads up there that gave it to me on Saturday :lol:

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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby Derny Driver » Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:33 pm

GAV!N wrote:Yeah it was nothing flash. Bought the wheels 2nd hand and it was already on. Panaracer I think. It was your stupid roads up there that gave it to me on Saturday :lol:

Interclub :roll: ... Might be down your way in 3 weeks for the crits, young DD has just started training again.

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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby GAV!N » Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:23 pm

Derny Driver wrote:
GAV!N wrote:Yeah it was nothing flash. Bought the wheels 2nd hand and it was already on. Panaracer I think. It was your stupid roads up there that gave it to me on Saturday :lol:

Interclub :roll: ... Might be down your way in 3 weeks for the crits, young DD has just started training again.


Cool. Should be interesting with decent size bunches on that course! I'd be surprised if we don't see a crash on the bottom corner.

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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby AndyRevill » Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:27 pm

Hi all,

I've never ridden tubulars but have often thought I might like to give it a go. I'm starting to muse about some new wheels so now is a good time for me to revisit the possibility but I have some questions about the practicalities - sorry if they seem a bit basic.

I'm only a recreational rider but enjoy making my ride as nice as possible - I ride home most weekdays (31km) plus like to do a longer ride at weekends when I can

For those of you using them as an everyday tyre, do you have multiple wheels? From what I've seen, if you need to replace a tyre then gluing is a multi-day job so if you lose a tyre on a Tuesday, no more riding until the end of the week unless you have a spare wheel glued up?
Tape obviously gets around this issue but is it as good/safe? It also seems this adds cost to the equation ($5/tyre?) plus you need to carry tape as well as a spare tyre?
If you get a small puncture and repair with sealant is this a long term fix or just a get you home solution?

Thanks in advance for any pointers

cheers, Andy
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open roader
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby open roader » Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:45 pm

AndyRevill wrote: enjoy making my ride as nice as possible


Tubulars will make your ride as plush as possible, especially a 'fat' tubular.

I suggest you try 24mm or 25mm tubulars (or wider if they will fit in the constraints of your frame) for the purpose of lowering the tyre pressure without copping rolling resistance penalties and significantly adding to the plushness of your ride.

From my experience of repalcing tyres from a tape job I'd avoid tape. It adheres well enough initially, however, I don't believe it has a long enough service life for the likes of me who will take a long time to wear out a tyre.

Gluing tubulars is not rocket science, nor does it need to be messy, however, if you want to add multiple glue layers and cure them in between applications there is no getting away from the timeliness of this process.

That said, there is nothing from stopping you from throwing on a pre-glued spare and riding carefully, esp. when cornering without any issues - I was forced to do this in New Zealand on my last trip for 70km worth of hilly riding and it worked!

I've not bothered with adding latex sealant in my tubular set ups (I have 5 sets!) because I simply ride in places where I very rarely get puncture flats (country Victoria) and I nearly always have the 'cavalry' to come and fetch me as 95% of my riding is done withing 25km of home.
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby Thoglette » Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:53 pm

AndyRevill wrote:... so if you lose a tyre on a Tuesday, no more riding until the end of the week unless you have a spare wheel glued up?
Tape obviously gets around this issue but is it as good/safe? It also seems this adds cost to the equation ($5/tyre?) plus you need to carry tape as well as a spare tyre?


The traditional answer is a pre-glued tyre folded up and carried with you. Proper tubular glue stays sticky for a long time*. How you fold is a matter of debate.

These days you also have the choice of leak fixing "goo" like Stans. I've only put it in after I get the leak but it worked. It's now my spare. Buy three tyres and you're done.

I don't use tape and have yet to hear anything positive about it.

On glue cure time. The one study I've seen (damn where is it?) showed that the better glues get to their 85% strength point within an hour - which is more than some of the crappy glue's top strength.

So if you've already "prepped" the spare tyre, and you don't completely b***r the glue on the rim, it's ten minutes either side of dinner and you're riding in the morning.

*eventually the glue does "dry out" and becomes a weak, brittle powder. It takes a few years to happen - old glue brushes and old wheel sets show it. I imagine my spare could do with a new coat by now :roll:
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby Derny Driver » Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:34 pm

AndyRevill wrote:Hi all,

I've never ridden tubulars but have often thought I might like to give it a go. ....

I'm only a recreational rider but enjoy making my ride as nice as possible - I ride home most weekdays (31km) plus like to do a longer ride at weekends when I can

For those of you using them as an everyday tyre ......

Thanks in advance for any pointers

cheers, Andy

Hi Andy
My opinion:
You would have rocks in your head mucking around with tubulars for everyday riding. No-one I know rides around on tubbies on a day to day basis. If you puncture a tubular you throw it in the bin even if it only went 100metres down the road, then you have to spend a night gluing a new one on. That's assuming you had one just sitting in your room waiting for you. Hopefully it was prestretched too otherwise the cursing level will go from about a 7 to a 10. The fiddling and mucking around is amazing. And the difference between tubulars and a good clincher is very very tiny. I know we have on this forum, the princess and the pea type guys who can ride a bike blindfolded and discern the difference between certain tyres, differing pressures and all the rest, but most mere mortals like you and I could not tell the difference.
My son has 2 sets of tubular wheels, one Enve set 25mm and Zipp 404 23mm. He uses them probably half a dozen times a year at best at certain races. We have Continentals on them, around $100 a tyre. In my opinion, if you are going to run cheap tubular tyres then you lose the advantage of tubbies, which is weight saving and grip. You might as well run a good clincher. My son has Fulcrum 3's with Schwalbe Ultremos for everyday riding and most club and State races and they are awesome, very grippy and fast. Yes they wear out fast but for anyone talking of riding around on tubbies every day, money should not come into the equation.
Seriously, I think you would be mad riding tubulars on a daily basis, for no reason other than supposed comfort. Every puncture you get is $100 and forget your plans for that night, if you intend to ride again tomorrow. Yes you must carry a preglued tyre with you on every ride.

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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby open roader » Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:58 pm

I've been riding tubulars as my every day tyre for the past few years. Granted, I barely cover 5,000km in a year across 3 road bikes and an MTB I use when it's wet, however, as I stated before, I do so because I ride on roads where picking up a puncture is a very rare event.

I've been riding on the same roads since 2007 and am yet to cop a penetration puncture on any tire be it tubular or clincher hense me being confident enough to ride on expensive tubulars day in day out.

If you ride in areas where you regularly pick up penetration punctures then I'd think more than twice about tubulars.
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby Thoglette » Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:30 pm

Derny Driver wrote:My opinion:...


Thanks for your opinion. The points you raise have, I believe, all been addressed earlier in this thread.
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby Derny Driver » Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:17 pm

Derny Driver wrote:Hi Andy
My opinion:

I wasn't talking to you Thoglette.
Anyway, if all the answers are contained in the previous posts on this thread, why did Andy ask his question?
And if a poster such as myself is not allowed to say the same comment as a previous poster, then you need to make this clear on every thread, especially those ones that run to 400+ pages.
And if you are the boss of this thread, you should tell me, and I will delete my comments if you do not like them.

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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby Duck! » Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:07 pm

AndyRevill wrote:For those of you using them as an everyday tyre, do you have multiple wheels? From what I've seen, if you need to replace a tyre then gluing is a multi-day job so if you lose a tyre on a Tuesday, no more riding until the end of the week unless you have a spare wheel glued up?
Tape obviously gets around this issue but is it as good/safe? It also seems this adds cost to the equation ($5/tyre?) plus you need to carry tape as well as a spare tyre?
If you get a small puncture and repair with sealant is this a long term fix or just a get you home solution?

Thanks in advance for any pointers.

If you decide to go with tubs as a long-term prospect, add a basic tubular rim (doesn't have to be built into a full wheel) to your collection to use as a stretching bed. Many tubs are absolute buggers to fit straight out of the packet, so need to be stretched at least overnight, but preferably longer to make them less of a pain to fit. Fit the tyre to the rim "dry" and inflate. Once it's been stretched, apply a layer of glue to the base tape, and allow to dry. As others have mentioned, it doesn't truly dry, but remains slightly tacky, and once under pressure will bond to the glue on the wheel when you need to replace a tyre.

Even if you don't have one pre-glued & ready to go, it won't put you off the road for days. You can easily be back on the road the next day.

Here's my process (assuming the tyre has been prestretched): For a brand new wheel, I will apply a coat of glue to the rim & allow to dry for 24 hours. If the rim has a high-gloss clearcoat on the tyre bed, I will sand that back a bit so the glue keys into the surface (I have seen tyres come unstuck from high-gloss rim beds). This first coat & 24-hour drying is a once-off, once there is a layer of glue on the rim any subsequent jobs are straight into the next step. Apply a fresh layer of glue to the rim, and one to the tyre; if it's not a primed tyre, be generous, because a fair bit of glue will soak into the tape. Allow to dry for 20 minutes or so (will vary depending on temperature and humidity). You can leave a section, usually between two spokes opposite the valve, unglued to aid getting the tyre off. It will not affect the integrity of the gluing job. Once the glue has tacked off, I apply another light coat down the centre of the rim and fit the tyre immediately afterwards, starting at the valve & working evenly away each side. The last layer of glue allows you to slide the tyre around a bit to ensure it's centred. Inflate to pressure, clean any excess glue off with turps (although if you've let the glue tack off properly it shouldn't be a messy job), leave overnight & you're ready to go the next day.

30ml of Stan's or similar latex sealant in each tyre is good insurance against most punctures. It won't fix a massive gash, but it'll seal little holes before you even know you've got one
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby softy » Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:23 pm

Just saw this thread, so would of chimed in earlier.

Just hate clinchers and changing them, so I only run tubulars. I did not have good luck with vittoria corsa SC. In west oz the sharp gritty sand punctures them pretty quickly. I use veloflex or challange, these are expensive, but also are vittoria corsa SC.

A really good budget tyre is from a shop in the US called "yellowjersy" they have a tyre that works out about 30 to 35 dollars oz if you buy them in bulk. I think they are called corsa, and have a butyl tube and a removable valve. Always keep spares at home for your bike. Aged tyres can also improve puncture proof.

I don't glue, I use tape, moved away from glue when I got back into cycling. The tape is awesome and easy to use. It stays sticky so if you get a puncture the new tyre sticks pretty well.

Tubulars are so easy to change on the side of the road, I leave a small gap of tape opposite the valve to break the tyre, pull it off, get the new tyre and stretch it on! Easy pezzy. Word of warning, continentals are incredibly difficult to fit. Do not use a new one as a spare, you will be saying a few choice words.
Veloflex are the easiest to fit, by far! Others are inbetween.

Now sealant, I have tried a few and stans is up there as one of the best, this stuff is magic! I have done 2000km commuting and never had to pull a tyre. The stans has saved me a few times! You see it spray out, sometimes it will seal as you ride, other times you need to stop, put the hole at the bottom to make it seal. Doesn't always work, but on most occasions it does. Once sealed add some more air and keep riding, even after months it still holds.

So that is it! A different product, but once you get familiar, they are much better. WHY,

You can run a bigger range of pressures, I believe they roll better ( due to them being round and absorbing the imperfections in the road), they ride better for a higher pressure, Easier to change on the side of the road and no pinch flats. If you get a blow out on a clincher your on the rim, very deadly at speed. A tubular the tyre is stuck to the rim and the bike can still be controlled. In fact you can at a pinch ride home slowly on a tubular, but the tyre will probably be cactus, depending how far. So tubulars are safer too.

PS, always buy with removable valves, so you can run sealant.
Last edited by softy on Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AndyRevill
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby AndyRevill » Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:46 pm

Thanks for the responses. As I said I've often wondered about them and life might be too short not to at least try them :D

There will be lots of factors for me to consider, including cost etc. but I do at least now have a better feeling for how people manage them on a daily basis. I probably shouldn't say this but in the last 4,000 km I've only had one puncture and that was a staple which pierced the tyre and I suspect sealant would have dealt with that (I'll need to pay homage to the puncture gods now!) so on that basis I feel like I'm starting from a good base but lots to think about, which is always good.

Thanks again

Andy
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby softy » Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:49 pm

Forgot to mention,
As said above, get some tubular rims (only) I picked some up out of gumtree. When you buy your spare tyres put them straight on your rims and put a bit of air in. Not to much as they tend to try and twist, if they start to you have to much air in. Now leave them for a few days or until the air bleeds out. Now they are stretched and easier to fit. CONTINENTALS must be stretched, I personally will not buy them due to the pain they are to fit. They are excellent at puncture proof, but do not have the best ride.

The practice you see on the net wear a person pulls it over their shoulder to stretch, it didn't work for me and just gave me a sore shoulder. Use a rim, even a old clincher rim can work, but not as ideal.

So that is stretching tyres.

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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby Thoglette » Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:03 pm

Found a new set of articles for the new tubular user (and a pile of reviews of tyres, mostly Veloflex)
https://windinmyface.com/gear-tires-why-tubular.html
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Re: Introduction to tubular

Postby eldavo » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:11 am

1st time caller, not a competitor so never touched a tubby. Happy tubeless and ghetto tubeless user for fat tyres on fat rims in other bikes, so not averse to faffing, and have enough other commuter options to take my chances trying with sealant only.

Picked up an old 650c tri bike with a sweet spare race wheelset of old zip400 on beautiful old Hope hubs that are frisby featherweight and roll like dew drops off angels wings compared to my other n.o.s. wheelsets and the used training clincher set it came with. My route on shared paths don't corner at speed nor brake too much in 42km each way, so not as nervous about rolling it off, though I would prefer more mental confidence on the front, so could justify a good mechanic setting it up the front, trying my own hand on the rear. It's that, or chance using a Spinergy RevX clincher on the front, debatable which has more doubt of rolling/collapsing? Spinergys spokeless alloy channel cheaper braking and looks ghetto tubeless easy, but I've heard shouldn't be done. Happy with a tube in that case as front punctures are rarer than rear, and have nice Conti GP 25 or 28mm clincher tyre.

Good discussion thread with both extremes to consider, wondering what people's wisdom and tyre choices are in 2018, and 650c probably narrows it radically :)

P.s. are aged tubby sidewall cracks an aesthetic badge of age honour, or to be treated as a test for tubeless sealant only? Looks like it's taped. Need valve extensions so adding sealant on the rim isn't going to happen on this set.
Last edited by eldavo on Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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