Buying a steel frame and need advice
-
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:20 pm
Buying a steel frame and need advice
Postby Vanny » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:03 pm
I'm new to the forum here and I am seeking some advise on steel frames as I have decided to sell me carbon frame. The carbon frame is areo and is not great on my back on rides more than 30km. I prefer to push out the km instead is all out speed.
So I have compiled a short list of the following:
All City Mr Pink
Soma Smoothie
Bomtrack Tempest
My preferred so far is the All City Mr Pink, however this comes at a 50% premium over the other two.
What are your thoughts and can you think of any brands to look at? The budget is up to $2,000 will need to includes a new cockpit, seat post, BB and brakes.
- nickobec
- Posts: 2271
- Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:51 am
- Location: Perth or 42km south as the singlespeed flies
- Contact:
Re: Buying a steel frame and need advice
Postby nickobec » Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:02 pm
1. the bike is badly fitted for you
2. you have a back issue
If 1 you need to understand why it is badly fitted and what corrections you need to make (on this frame or a new frame)
If you buy a new frame steel or otherwise, You need to decide on the geometry first. If you preference is more distance over speed, you should be looking at endurance geometry over race geometry.
I own a few steel bikes, most traditional racing frames of various material SLX, 853, 531, tange infinity, 4130, 1080. I really agree with this article on tubing, a lot more of the ride is tyres, wheels, geometry than tubing. (It does make a difference but often it is a personal preference)
Sorry could not be of more help or give you a recommendation.
-
- Posts: 273
- Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:11 am
- Location: Inglewood
Re: Buying a steel frame and need advice
Postby owly » Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:59 pm
At your budget I'd first book a fitting session on one of those wizzbang bike contraptions to get your numbers.
Then I'd even consider a secondhand frame from the bay; something like 858 or Spirit maybe. Way more options than what you'd find in Aust alone.
-
- Posts: 10304
- Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
- Location: Sydney
Re: Buying a steel frame and need advice
Postby Nobody » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:43 pm
Suggested measurements below:
Both measurements are taken from the middle of the bottom bracket to the vertical center of the stem where it joins the steerer tube (see photo). These measurements are more relevant than standard frame REACH & STACK as they give you a measurement at the STACK height that you'll actually use. At this measurement point, the length is slightly reduced from the frame REACH.
If you choose to use this method. You can post the measurements you currently have and/or want and what frame you want to buy. From that I've written a spreadsheet which allows me to calculate the expected REACH length (to stem) at the STACK height (to stem) you will use. This is calculated from the manufacturer's geometry chart.
I used this method to buy a frame online (pictured) and it worked out as expected.
-
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:20 pm
Re: Buying a steel frame and need advice
Postby Vanny » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:04 pm
1. I have a existing back issue.
2. A bike fit has been booked with a physio to determine the correct geometry for me.
Once the bike fit has been completed I will then be in a position to make a choice.
Cheers
-
- Posts: 763
- Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:31 pm
Re: Buying a steel frame and need advice
Postby hamishm » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:38 am
- uart
- Posts: 3207
- Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:15 pm
- Location: Newcastle
Re: Buying a steel frame and need advice
Postby uart » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:50 am
I'm not knocking that, but it does make me wonder. If you're going to go with steel then why not go the whole proverbial hog? Or alternately, if carbon is superior for the forks then why isn't it superior for the whole frame?
- Duck!
- Expert
- Posts: 9850
- Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
- Location: On The Tools
Re: Buying a steel frame and need advice
Postby Duck! » Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:50 pm
Carbon is very stiff against low frequency impacts, but due to the nature of the composite layup is a lot better at absorbing high frequency vibrations because the resin component is able to compress a tiny bit and dissipate the vibration.
The use of carbon forks is to aid steering stability by minimising flex while still offering vibration damping performance.
-
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:20 pm
Re: Buying a steel frame and need advice
Postby Vanny » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:18 pm
Bike looks great, however I just upgrade my wheels and they are rim brakesCurve Grovel. Lots of fun. https://www.curvecycling.com.au/product ... l-v2-frame
Carbon forks are just a personal preference. While I want to go steel, I would still like to keep the weight around 10kg. I'm trying to get the best of both worlds really.It's interesting to me that all four of the steel bikes recommended above have carbon fibre forks.
I'm not knocking that, but it does make me wonder. If you're going to go with steel then why not go the whole proverbial hog? Or alternately, if carbon is superior for the forks then why isn't it superior for the whole frame?
- Warin
- Posts: 647
- Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 5:13 pm
Re: Buying a steel frame and need advice
Postby Warin » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:15 pm
How well does the physio know bikes? Take a photo of yourself on the bike in question along to the physio to get max value out of the visit.Vanny wrote:1. I have a existing back issue.
2. A bike fit has been booked with a physio to determine the correct geometry for me.
Once the bike fit has been completed I will then be in a position to make a choice.
See if you can borrow a steel bike from someone your size and go for an extended ride.. does it really help with your back pain? If not and it is lower back pain then I'd be looking at a thud buster seat post, weight is a fair amount but you do get comfort.
I suspect that a change from carbon frame to steel will see little change in your back pain. Unless the geometry of how you sit/fit on the bike is changed .. and then you can do that with a carbon frame too. The change of behaviour between the carbon frame an steel frame is small and probably not enough to remove the back pain by itself. You can get more effect from tyre sizes and pressures.
- DavidS
- Posts: 3629
- Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:24 pm
- Location: Melbourne
Re: Buying a steel frame and need advice
Postby DavidS » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:07 pm
But I agree, geometry is the key. I have a bad back too and it is well worth getting it right.
DS
-
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:20 pm
Re: Buying a steel frame and need advice
Postby Vanny » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:34 pm
The idea behind steel is to go for something different and capable of absorbing some more road chatter, however the priority is to get the geometry right. On my current bike I am simply too stretched. If the geometry of the frames I listed does not work then they are of the list and I will look for alternatives.
From what I have read about the frames and what I understand about the geometry that riding position is more upright (which I need) than my current bike.
My current bike is a Giant Propel large frame size which is 58cm. I will try and get the reach and stack.
-
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:20 pm
Re: Buying a steel frame and need advice
Postby Vanny » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:40 pm
stack is 40.2 cm
reach is 58.1cm
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/prope ... ced-1-2015
-
- Posts: 273
- Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:11 am
- Location: Inglewood
Re: Buying a steel frame and need advice
Postby owly » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:02 am
The Soma and AllCity, through CyclesBespoke?
-
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:20 pm
Re: Buying a steel frame and need advice
Postby Vanny » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:30 pm
- redsonic
- Posts: 1767
- Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:08 pm
- Location: Brisbane
Re: Buying a steel frame and need advice
Postby redsonic » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:04 pm
http://www.clickbike.com.au/_p/prd1/363 ... road-logic
-
- Posts: 273
- Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:11 am
- Location: Inglewood
Re: Buying a steel frame and need advice
Postby owly » Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:23 pm
I'm in walking distance from there.Vanny wrote:You got that right. Cycles Bespoke is my new local.
Have a Curve Grovel v2 frameset arriving in the next few weeks. If you ever want to check one out, give me a bell.
Once Vogels gives you the frame numbers, if you put them up here, I might be able to suggest some other steel frameset options in your budget.
- nickobec
- Posts: 2271
- Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:51 am
- Location: Perth or 42km south as the singlespeed flies
- Contact:
Re: Buying a steel frame and need advice
Postby nickobec » Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:40 am
No need to worry about 10kg, my 2nd most ridden steel bike is 2005 KHS flite 800, (853 reynolds), with carbon forks (alloy steerer), full Ultegra 6600, usually with some pretty heavy wheels and it is 9kg.Vanny wrote:Carbon forks are just a personal preference. While I want to go steel, I would still like to keep the weight around 10kg. I'm trying to get the best of both worlds really.
My most ridden steel bike is 25 year old italian built, colombus SLX tubed, belguim badged with steel forks, with period bars and stem. SRAM Red, CF seatpost and decent wheels and it tips the scales at 8kg.
A good wheelset and tyres are most important to quality ride. The new wheels, wide profile? As you are concentrating on distance and comfort over speed, I would suggest 28mm tyres if possible, failing that 25mm.Vanny wrote: I just upgrade my wheels and they are rim brakes
The KHS frame has no issues with the 28mm tyres, but the ultegra brake calipers are close fit. My other frames it is 25mm max.
So after right geo for your frame, next is maximum tyre width for the frame, most relax geo steel frames should have good tyre clearance, but check. Then it is finding brakes that will support your chosen frame + tyre choice.
-
- Posts: 763
- Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:31 pm
Re: Buying a steel frame and need advice
Postby hamishm » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:22 am
FWIW I'm loving my Grovel v2.owly wrote:Have a Curve Grovel v2 frameset arriving in the next few weeks. If you ever want to check one out, give me a bell.
-
- Posts: 273
- Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:11 am
- Location: Inglewood
Re: Buying a steel frame and need advice
Postby owly » Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:05 pm
How do you have it set up? any pics?hamishm wrote:FWIW I'm loving my Grovel v2.owly wrote:Have a Curve Grovel v2 frameset arriving in the next few weeks. If you ever want to check one out, give me a bell.
-
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:20 pm
Re: Buying a steel frame and need advice
Postby Vanny » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:07 pm
Owly the Grovel and Belgie Spirit look great, problem is my new wheels are rim brakes
I would love to see the Grovel when you have built it up.
-
- Posts: 763
- Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:31 pm
Re: Buying a steel frame and need advice
Postby hamishm » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:09 am
I haven't taken any close ups. Build is Ultegra with RS-685 hydraulic shifters, Kinesis Crosslight disc wheels (700c), Maxxis Rambler 40mm tyres.owly wrote:How do you have it set up? any pics?hamishm wrote:FWIW I'm loving my Grovel v2.owly wrote:Have a Curve Grovel v2 frameset arriving in the next few weeks. If you ever want to check one out, give me a bell.
- Thoglette
- Posts: 6599
- Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:01 pm
Re: Buying a steel frame and need advice
Postby Thoglette » Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:45 pm
If you get into the CBD you're welcome to try my '80s vintage Gemini Randonneur, if only to taste 32mm tyres.Vanny wrote:You got that right. Cycles Bespoke is my new local.
Obviously you need to sort your geometry but sensible tyres (32mm or wider and supple) make a huge difference.
A sprung Brook-style saddle is also very good for the back.
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ
-
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:20 pm
Re: Buying a steel frame and need advice
Postby Vanny » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:51 pm
- Thoglette
- Posts: 6599
- Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:01 pm
Re: Buying a steel frame and need advice
Postby Thoglette » Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:58 pm
You can run 28s on 13mm no problem. 16.5 will officially cope with really quite wide tyres according ETRO as quoted by MavicVanny wrote:. The new wheels are 25mm wide with 16.5mm internal width, so hopefully the will accommodate 28C tyres.
bMavic wrote: Norms are setting barriers and rules to ensure rider safety. ISO 4210 refers to the ETRTO manual that provides a chart to show which combinations are possible and safe :
Note that 99.9% of modern rims are "crotchet" (hooked0 type, despite Mavic's text implying otherwise. And all Tubeless compatible and "high pressure" tyre rims are hooked. I imagine that a straight walled rim is special order item these days. (I have some in the shed and one on the front of the bike).
Unless you're riding in mud this is a non-issue, despite the wailing and gnashing of teeth in the press.Vanny wrote:Owly the Grovel and Belgie Spirit look great, problem is my new wheels are rim brakes
Yes, the the first wet day after a dry spell you'll need to be mindful of all the crap on your rims. And give them the occasionally tap to keep them clean(ish). But ultimate breaking power is _not_ your biggest problem in the wet!
Modern centre pull and side pulls (on narrow tyres) are pretty damn good: if money was no object the Grand Cru and Compass centre pulls are ultrablingy. And a crap load easier to set up than cantis, (which need to be re-set up as the pads wear).
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ
Return to “Buying a bike / parts”
- General Australian Cycling Topics
- Info / announcements
- Buying a bike / parts
- General Cycling Discussion
- The Bike Shed
- Cycling Health
- Cycling Safety and Advocacy
- Women's Cycling
- Bike & Gear Reviews
- Cycling Trade
- Stolen Bikes
- Bicycle FAQs
- Serious Biking
- Audax / Randonneuring
- Retro biking
- Commuting
- MTB
- Recumbents
- Fixed Gear/ Single Speed
- Track
- Electric Bicycles
- Cyclocross and Gravel Grinding
- Dragsters / Lowriders / Cruisers
- Children's Bikes
- Cargo Bikes and Utility Cycling
- Road Racing
- Road Biking
- Training
- Time Trial
- Triathlon
- International and National Tours and Events
- Cycle Touring
- Touring Australia
- Touring Overseas
- Touring Bikes and Equipment
- Australia
- Western Australia
- New South Wales
- Queensland
- South Australia
- Victoria
- ACT
- Tasmania
- Northern Territory
- Country & Regional
- The Market Place
- Member to Member Bike and Gear Sales
- Want to Buy, Group Buy, Swap
- My Bikes or Gear Elsewhere
- Cycling Brands
- Cannondale
- Garmin
- Giant
- Shimano
- Trek
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users
- All times are UTC+11:00
- Top
- Delete cookies
About the Australian Cycling Forums
The Australian Cycling Forums is a welcoming community where you can ask questions and talk about the type of bikes and cycling topics you like.
Bicycles Network Australia
Forum Information
Connect with BNA
This website uses affiliate links to retail platforms including ebay, amazon, proviz and ribble.