New wheels - tubeless or standard?

eeksll
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Re: New wheels - tubeless or standard?

Postby eeksll » Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:12 pm

thanks for the post .... but who does this ?!?!

AndyRevill wrote:Some people see this as a real pain, fair enough but I don't see any difference to periodically taking the tyre off to check the tube.

AndyRevill
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Re: New wheels - tubeless or standard?

Postby AndyRevill » Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:43 am

eeksll wrote:thanks for the post .... but who does this ?!?!

AndyRevill wrote:Some people see this as a real pain, fair enough but I don't see any difference to periodically taking the tyre off to check the tube.


I used to :D just to check the tube, rim tape, rim and make sure there was nothing working it's way into the tyre - on a rainy Sunday a couple of times a year. Maybe I'm OCD :shock:
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Noviss
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Re: New wheels - tubeless or standard?

Postby Noviss » Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:49 pm

AndyRevill wrote:I went tubeless just over a year ago. Why? Tassie roads are fairly ordinary both in the amount of rubbish and the quality of the surface as there seems to be a tendency towards really coarse chip seal plus a few of my favourite rides involve stretches of dirt road so I was keen to be able to run lower pressures to improve the comfort factor.

The Domane came with Bontrager tubeless ready wheels so all I needed was their specific tubeless rim strip and valves. I'd been running 25mm Schwalbe ones and really liked them so went with the Pro Ones in the same size. Sealant choice was Orange Seal. The whole set up was easy, tyre fitting was marginally tighter, they sealed first time with a track pump and held pressure overnight with no sealant. Popped in the sealant and that was that. Rode them for 3,000 km with one "puncture" which I didn't know about until the end of the ride when I discovered the tell tale spray on the seat post. Checked the pressure and it was at 65 psi from 90. Goop cleaned off the bike easily with a couple of baby wipes. Note I continued to ride the same tyre post the puncture and it held pressure the same as prior. I found I was topping up every other day.
At the 3,000 km mark I built my wife a bike so she got the wheels and I got some new ones from XLR8 with HED Belgium tubeless ready rims with tubeless tape and stayed with another set of the Pro Ones. Fitting was just as easy as on the Bontrager rims. Have just completed a 1,000 km ride round the state with no puncture.

Some comments on maintenance: it's different to what we're used to. If you don't like different it's probably not for you. If you're the sort of person who can't do something that has the potential to get really messy without it getting messy then it may not be for you. As an example, you do need to check the amount of sealant left in the tyre as it will dry out, timeframes vary depending on where you live, in Tassie I seem to still be good after 5 months but tend to check every 3. I've seen people do this by leaning the bike against a wall and let the air out and then complain when goop leaks out everywhere because the weight of the bike on the deflated tyre opens the bead. However, put the bike on a stand and deflate the tyre and you can unscrew the valve core and use a disposable syringe with a bit of tube to suck out what's left and see how much you've got - mess free! Some people see this as a real pain, fair enough but I don't see any difference to periodically taking the tyre off to check the tube.

I haven't yet had to put a tube in at the side of the road so can't comment on that but see no reason why it shouldn't be fairly straightforward but yes, could get messy which is why I carry a set of disposable medical gloves in the spares kit.

I've had way fewer punctures than when I was on tubes which at this stage I'm putting down to the lower pressures, I certainly had several pinch flats prior to the change.

So for me it works and I enjoy the ride. I never say never but at this stage I don't see myself going back anytime soon.

Cheers, Andy


Thanks Andy. Great post. It provides a balanced view based on experience.

My riding sounds similar to yours but I have decide to stick with the standard wheels/tyres for now mainly because I don't want to be trying to break the bead and put a tube in by the side of the road in the dark in the middle of winter. If the wheels were just for day riding in reasonable conditions I would go tubeless but given the roadside rubbish I seem to attract and less than optimal climactic conditions I think I will stick to tubed wheels.

battler2
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Re: New wheels - tubeless or standard?

Postby battler2 » Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:32 pm

the bead is not hard to break when it's flat....

two strong levers and the tyre comes off. and replacing the tube is the same process.

i'd rather an increased chance of a tyre sealing itself so i don't have to stop at all in winter, than a guaranteed stop on normal tyres with average to no puncture protection.

however if you don't want punctures, then go with schwalbe marathon plus. you definitely won't get a puncture. but they are heavy. very heavy.

eeksll
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Re: New wheels - tubeless or standard?

Postby eeksll » Sat Jun 03, 2017 12:18 am

would getting a set of these VAR tyre levers make road side changes easier when required?

eeksll
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Re: New wheels - tubeless or standard?

Postby eeksll » Sat Jun 03, 2017 12:23 am

AndyRevill wrote:
eeksll wrote:thanks for the post .... but who does this ?!?!

AndyRevill wrote:Some people see this as a real pain, fair enough but I don't see any difference to periodically taking the tyre off to check the tube.


I used to :D just to check the tube, rim tape, rim and make sure there was nothing working it's way into the tyre - on a rainy Sunday a couple of times a year. Maybe I'm OCD :shock:


:mrgreen:

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Re: New wheels - tubeless or standard?

Postby AndyRevill » Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:40 pm

eeksll wrote:would getting a set of these VAR tyre levers make road side changes easier when required?


I have one flat yellow Michelin lever and one bog standard thin one that has a spoke hook on one end, that's all I ever use and have no problems getting the tyres on and off. As I said, I find them a little tighter to the point where I can't get the last little bit on by hand and getting that first bit off is tight. The bead isn't a problem, as someone else said, it pops out easily if the tyre is flat. It's more about paying closer attention to technique such as ensuring the other bead is in the centre of the rim so you're not fighting unneccesarily.

Cheers, Andy
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DaveQB
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Re: New wheels - tubeless or standard?

Postby DaveQB » Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:18 pm

Duck! wrote:
battler2 wrote:
MichaelB wrote:
You can, but it requires extra items to be purchased such as special tape and the tubeless valve stems.


no you can't. the rim profile does not suit. the scar on my left thigh is proof of this, despite being told by an irresponsible dealer that they were tubeless 'ready'.

On MTB you can get away with "ghetto" tubeless setups on standard rims due to the much lower tyre pressure, but it's strongly advised against on road wheels.


What he said. Don't run tubeless on a rim that's not designed to be tubeless. From all I have read, you have a tyre that just can't wait to pop off the rim, probably while going around a corner at high speed.

I would vote in favour of a tubeless rim as, from what I have read, tubeless rims have far less chance of the tyre coming off the rim when you puncture and deflate. I thought this applied to tubeless tyres only but it applies to any tyre on the tubeless rim. Makes sense.

I have recently gone tubeless on my 2x Flo 30 wheels and my Flo 60 front. Here's my experience.

You certainly need to be get better at mounting a tyre. All the tricks of ensuring the bead is in the well of the rim etc apply here. On top of that, strong tyre levers. I have found the Schwalbe and Lezyne levers unbreakable even with tight tubeless tyres. I have broken others. Definitely getting the tight tubeless tyre on and off is a negative, but I don't mind as I see it as increasing my chances that the tyre will stay on the rim if it fully deflates due to a puncture which may well keep me from crashing. In fact, any rim I can get the tyre on easily with one hand makes me nervous (looking at you Zipp 404). Note, I did have a crash recently when the Vittoria Speed TLR tyre I was trying for the first time, took an 8mm gash up the side and deflated quickly (on the front). The tyre did stay on the rim.

But being able to run low pressures on the terrible country roads near my place has been amazing. I am 85kg and so run 100/110 on 23 clinchers and 90/100 on 25 clinchers. I ran 65/70 on the weekend on my Flo 30's without any issues on Schwalbe 25mm Pro Ones. It was very noticeable improvement in ride quality. Bumps I would cringe at I hardly noticed; the same bumps that gave me pinch flats at 80+PSI.

I use an AirShot to initially inflate and seal. I found getting it up to 140PSI before unleashing it sees me get a seal first go.

I have practiced taking off the Pro One and mounting them a few times (without sealant) just so I know what I am up for if I have to boot and tube one while on the road. The right levers make all the difference.

I've probably written more than needed, but a final point. See this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOi4czjB1No
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Aushiker
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Re: New wheels - tubeless or standard?

Postby Aushiker » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:39 pm

Noviss wrote:Thanks Andy. Great post. It provides a balanced view based on experience.


+ 1

As I am seriously considering a Giant Defy Advanced 2 getting up to speed on road tubeless tyre options is in my to do list. If I was running tubes on this bike I would likely be running Continental Grand Prix 4 Seasons [Audax rides mainly] so curious to know if there are similar style of tyres in tubeless available or what are folks mainly riding?
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RonK
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Re: New wheels - tubeless or standard?

Postby RonK » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:08 pm

These are impressive. Things get interesting around 7:30.

Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

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Re: New wheels - tubeless or standard?

Postby Aushiker » Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:41 am

RonK wrote:These are impressive. Things get interesting around 7:30.

Thanks Ron. Off to have a watch.
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Re: New wheels - tubeless or standard?

Postby Mububban » Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:50 pm

AndyRevill wrote:Sealant choice was Orange Seal.


Did you use the Regular or Endurance seal from Orange?

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Re: New wheels - tubeless or standard?

Postby Mububban » Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:51 pm

Aushiker wrote:As I am seriously considering a Giant Defy Advanced 2 getting up to speed on road tubeless tyre options is in my to do list.



Here's hoping a company as big as Giant make a good in-house sealant for their own wheels and tyres. Lots of rave reviews for the Orange brand.
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Re: New wheels - tubeless or standard?

Postby Thoglette » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:13 pm

DaveQB wrote:But being able to run low pressures on the terrible country roads near my place has been amazing. I am 85kg and so run 100/110 on 23 clinchers and 90/100 on 25 clinchers. I ran 65/70 on the weekend on my Flo 30's without any issues on Schwalbe 25mm Pro Ones. It was very noticeable improvement in ride quality. Bumps I would cringe at I hardly noticed; the same bumps that gave me pinch flats at 80+PSI.

Try running 32mm or bigger. Especially if you're getting new wheels anyway. Now, if you can't fit them in your frame, that's a different story.
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Re: New wheels - tubeless or standard?

Postby Duck! » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:32 pm

Mububban wrote:
Aushiker wrote:As I am seriously considering a Giant Defy Advanced 2 getting up to speed on road tubeless tyre options is in my to do list.



Here's hoping a company as big as Giant make a good in-house sealant for their own wheels and tyres. Lots of rave reviews for the Orange brand.

Giant's house-branded sealant is repackaged Stan's, which is thoroughly good stuff.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: New wheels - tubeless or standard?

Postby Aushiker » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:29 pm

Mububban wrote:Here's hoping a company as big as Giant make a good in-house sealant for their own wheels and tyres. Lots of rave reviews for the Orange brand.

I use Orange anyway so would be replacing it within three months.
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