A complete group set for a new touring bike setup?

Markj211
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:49 pm

A complete group set for a new touring bike setup?

Postby Markj211 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:15 pm

Hi

I have been off my bike for over a year and have vowed to hit the road again to try and restore some semblance of fitness.

I have been reading a lot of recent bike builds and have noticed that it is very rare to see a bike with a complete group set. I have an existing Salsa Al acarte frame that I had hoped to reuse and I was looking at a complete Shimano SLX or XT 2x group set. I'm not familiar with SRAM so haven't really looked at their options. Is it uncommon to see complete group set builds?

I have also been looking at the Salsa Fargo or Soma Wolverine bike frames and at new complete bikes as well such as Surly, Soma, Specialized, Vivente and Bombtrack. I'm at the stage where I will basically be cycling and touring on the road credit card style so will not need to carry a heavy load.

Is it that crazy to just buy a complete Shimano or SRAM groupset?

Another side question, I currently have my old Salsa 26" wheels and stock hubs from when I purchased this bike about 10 years ago. Is there any reason why I shouldn't keep using them? They seem to be in good condition but do need truing as the old disc brakes would rub wide to the wheel wobble. My other concern is whether the wheel would,be compatible with the new 11 cog chainrings.

Thanks again for taking the time to read this post.

Regards
Mark

User avatar
AUbicycles
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 12531
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:14 am
Location: Sydney
Contact:

Re: A complete group set for a new touring bike setup?

Postby AUbicycles » Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:37 pm

Hi

Markj211 wrote:I have been reading a lot of recent bike builds and have noticed that it is very rare to see a bike with a complete group set.


Can you provide some context - do you mean that people building mix and match equipment?

If it a new frame, generally it is cheaper to get it as a complete bike and simply change over bits to suit your preference. If you by a frame then a complete groupset individually (new) it will usually be more expensive.

Markj211 wrote:Is it that crazy to just buy a complete Shimano or SRAM groupset?


Depends on the maths. Probably only crazy if it is significantly more expensive.


Markj211 wrote:Is there any reason why I shouldn't keep using them?


Nope... just give them a good service. You will want to check for corrosion, oil the nipples, check that the bearings and freewheel are running smoothly and true it. Probably just a tyre upgrade.


Cheers
Christopher

Markj211
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:49 pm

Re: A complete group set for a new touring bike setup?

Postby Markj211 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:53 pm

Thanks for the quick response Christopher.

Yes I meant people doing a mix and match type of thing. I suppose it makes sense to choose the best or rather right part for the job which might not necessarily mean buying the same brand and groupset.

I am still toying with the idea of just going the complete build route. I have a budget of about $2.5 - $3k. Compared to 10 years ago there seems to be a lot more choice now! I'm basically after a nice riding bike as it would also be my daily commuter so not really looking for a heavy tourer like the Surly LHT. Might try look as some cyclocross options,

Analysis paralysis is my nemesis!

User avatar
baabaa
Posts: 706
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:47 am

Re: A complete group set for a new touring bike setup?

Postby baabaa » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:44 pm

Guessing your one is a True Temper OX Platinum frame and if so please use it, they were keenly sought by the people in the know and are great for all the things to wish to do.
If me, yes I would stick pretty much to what you are thinking with full 2 by 10 or 11 SLX group. Lots of good prices from the online sellers like bike24 and http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/au/e ... prod148595 (but you need to watch your cable routing for bottom pull and disc rotor type)
You could run 11 speed shifting on your 10 speed hubs till the point you wish to upgrade the wheels then just get the 11 speed cluster with the new hubs. If the wheels are just like this ...
http://salsacycles.com/files/pages/Ala. ... e.Card.pdf
then with a quick hub service and they should be good for quite a while (the stock rims are good!). Almost all the parts from that link have been modernised in name but as the frame is so good it would be easy to fit any of the new kit if you just keep a note of what the original specs are. (No boost hubs, 68 mm or a 68-73 mm bottom brackets and cranks to suit, say 180mm max rotors and so on)

BUT.... if you wish to go drop bar and kinda fargo monster cross with full cx/ road shifting and brake lever stuff and if the frame fits you well, then it gets exciting and would be a big yes from me. The bits required will be different but you just need to think forward as some road to mtn or mtn to road bits dont talk as well as they should and it can be easier to think about the end result and try to avoid the mixing of types (Have gone down this path myself so may have some handy hints on this if you want to do this.)

User avatar
RonK
Posts: 9740
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Contact:

Re: A complete group set for a new touring bike setup?

Postby RonK » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:03 pm

It's not at all uncommon to see full groupsets on flat bar builds. You can pretty much choose whichever MTB groupset suits your budget and preference.
On drop bar bikes it's another story. If you want low touring gears there is little option but to mix and match. There are plenty of compatibility issues so it can get quite complicated.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

Markj211
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:49 pm

Re: A complete group set for a new touring bike setup?

Postby Markj211 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:06 pm

Thanks for the feedback BaaBaa and RonK.

That is indeed my bike :-) Looks so shinny and new in that PDF!
I do love the forks and they make for a comfortable ride. I also love the paint job.

I am contemplating the road component path as well given I ride on the road or bike paths 98% of the time but I am partial to flat handlebars.

I'll also have to check what size wheels the frame would support if I do replace my existing 26" pair.

RonK we actually discussed my existing Salsa bike some years ago prior to my first tour of Tasmania followed by a trip to he US. Glad to see you are still involved in Cycle touring.

Thanks again.

Mark

User avatar
baabaa
Posts: 706
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:47 am

Re: A complete group set for a new touring bike setup?

Postby baabaa » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:29 pm

A 27.7/650b wheelset will work
https://www.flickr.com/photos/16461051@N04/2749627927/
Image
and the paint and the salsa sticker artwork of that era, yes indeed, nice.

User avatar
RonK
Posts: 9740
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Contact:

Re: A complete group set for a new touring bike setup?

Postby RonK » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:30 pm

Markj211 wrote:RonK we actually discussed my existing Salsa bike some years ago prior to my first tour of Tasmania followed by a trip to he US. Glad to see you are still involved in Cycle touring.

Yes Mark I'm still touring, these days mostly on a Salsa Fargo in bikepacking mode. I spent a month touring the backroads of the South Island New Zealand earlier this year.

You may be interested in my Fargo build which uses a mix of Sram road and MTB components - which have no compatibility issues. It's a long thread but may give you some ideas.

A Salsa Fargo for me...

If you are considering a complete bike there is a large selection of gravel and adventure bikes on the market now. These are great allrounders and generally a better choice than a CX bike.

If you are thinking about converting your current frame to drop bars you may find the geometry unsuitable as flat bar bikes usually have a longer top tube which can become a fit issue.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

User avatar
Duck!
Expert
Posts: 6353
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:21 pm
Location: On The Tools

Re: A complete group set for a new touring bike setup?

Postby Duck! » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:03 pm

Incomplete groupsets on factory-spec bikes is pretty common, typically it's a cost-saving thing; spec a rear derailleur & crank and maybe brakes from a higher-level groups, then lower-spec for the rest that they think some people won't notice.....

If you're getting brake rub & wobble on disc brakes, then it's not the wheels that need truing; either the hubs are shot (bad) or the rotors are warped (good - easy & inexpensive to replace).

For future thoughts: 11-sp. MTB cassettes will fit on your existing 8/9/10-sp. hubs, as although the cassette is wider overall, the enormity of the largest sprocket allows it to be dished back from the core of the cassette without fouling the spokes, and is the same width at the centre as an 8, 9 or 10-sp. cassette. Most of SRAM's MTB 11-sp. cassettes use a 10T top gear rather than the more common 11T, and that small sprocket dictates a special freewheel body to fit the cassette onto. Although most hub manufacturers produce this XD Driver option, your wheels might be to old for an appropriate conversion kit. Shimano also make a "non-series" Ultegra/XT-level HG800 11-34 cassette (the "proper MTB cassettes have a large sprocket ranging from 40 to 50T) which will fit on 8/9/10-sp. hubs. Road 11-sp. cassettes with a large sprocket of 32T or less are wider through the core and require a specific freewheel body to suit, which again may not be possible for your wheels.

To make things difficult (and moving back away from the complete groupset), there is a lot less compatibility between road and MTB gear at 10- & 11-sp. levels than there used to be. With Shimano suff up to 9-sp. there is very good compatibility between road & MTB shifters & derailleurs. 10-sp. road shifters, with the exception of the current 4700 Tiagra will also work with 8/9-sp. MTB derailleurs to give wide gear range compatibility. There is no compatibility at 11-sp. level. There is a bit more flexibility with SRAM; 10-sp. are fully cross-compatible, and additionally road 11-sp. shifters will also work with 10-sp. MTB derailleurs, but not 11 or 12-sp. MTB rear derailleurs.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

Markj211
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:49 pm

Re: A complete group set for a new touring bike setup?

Postby Markj211 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:09 pm

BaaBaa, I like the idea of 27.5 wheels :-) i will see how the budget is going as to whether I keep my existing wheels or upgrade.

Ron I've been having a good look at your setup. I like your choice of SRAM crankset with 36/22. In looking at the Shimano XT the one thing I was concerned about was that their options were 34/24 or 36/26. I really like the low end on the hills and just spin my way up.

Duck, thank you for the information. Budget wise I think I can factor in new wheels if required. I'd probably go 27.5 instead of my current 26". I just have to figure out what to get. Adding wheels to the ball game adds a whole new area I need to research. That's okay thou as I enjoy it. I'll try keep a consistent build once I decide which track I go down so I limit compatibility issues.

I'll post a component list in a few days for comment.

Regards
Mark

User avatar
RonK
Posts: 9740
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:08 pm
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Contact:

Re: A complete group set for a new touring bike setup?

Postby RonK » Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:35 pm

Markj211 wrote:Ron I've been having a good look at your setup. I like your choice of SRAM crankset with 36/22. In looking at the Shimano XT the one thing I was concerned about was that their options were 34/24 or 36/26. I really like the low end on the hills and just spin my way up.

A 22t granny ring has been my standard configuration even since my first tour - a lap around hilly Tasmania. But after successive tours I decided that dispensing with the rarely used triple chainset opened up a host of new component opportunities, in particular much better brakes.
I found that getting rid of the big ring and replacing the 32t ring with a 36t ring combined with an 11-36t cassette gives me a very workable spread of gears for both highway and backroads riding with minimal chainring shifting.
Sram 10sp road shifters are compatible with Sram 10sp MTB derailleurs and disc brakes. Not having ever used them I was a little uncertain if I would like the doubletap shifters but was quickly won over by their excellent ergonomics.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

User avatar
singlespeedscott
Posts: 5145
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:35 pm
Location: Elimbah, Queensland

Re: A complete group set for a new touring bike setup?

Postby singlespeedscott » Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:32 pm

Id be sticking with your old Salsa, or sell it to me :) . All you other options do not approach the quality of that frame.

For all riding your looking to do I think a drop bar is not really nesasary. That Salsa shod with some Compass Rat Trap tyres will be plenty fast. The old componets on it are fine unless they are flogged out.
Image

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users