First power meter - guidance and feedback please

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MichaelB
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zero power readings ....

Postby MichaelB » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:21 pm

OK, finally got the new bike on the road, and the PM fitted. Paired it to the Bolt, no issues, but ....

When on the ride, I noticed that the 3s power reading was zero. At lights when taking off or putting in a burst, the power showed a climbing number (as you would expect) and when I had accelerated to my top speed it maxed out. All good. But then when maintaining that max speed, the 3s power value soon drops to zero again even though I’m putting out plenty of power ?

I checked the field on the CA during the ride and even tried the 3s Max power but the result was the same.

I was expecting something like a continual number that would reflect the level of effort over the last 3 sec ?

It is the 1st Ride with the PM (cadence worked fine). Looking at the power file in the CA post ride, it seems that the power spikes are there, but it returns to zero even when doing a constant pace up an incline ?

The FSA instructions were followed (and they were simple) so am I missing something ? Does it need a ride or two to calibrate itself ?

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queequeg
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Re: zero power readings ....

Postby queequeg » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:59 pm

MichaelB wrote:OK, finally got the new bike on the road, and the PM fitted. Paired it to the Bolt, no issues, but ....

When on the ride, I noticed that the 3s power reading was zero. At lights when taking off or putting in a burst, the power showed a climbing number (as you would expect) and when I had accelerated to my top speed it maxed out. All good. But then when maintaining that max speed, the 3s power value soon drops to zero again even though I’m putting out plenty of power ?

I checked the field on the CA during the ride and even tried the 3s Max power but the result was the same.

I was expecting something like a continual number that would reflect the level of effort over the last 3 sec ?

It is the 1st Ride with the PM (cadence worked fine). Looking at the power file in the CA post ride, it seems that the power spikes are there, but it returns to zero even when doing a constant pace up an incline ?

The FSA instructions were followed (and they were simple) so am I missing something ? Does it need a ride or two to calibrate itself ?


The power meter is not outputting a 3s power figure, it's your head unit doing that. Check that the recording interval is not "smart recording" (not sure if the Bolt has that, but on Garmin you need to change it to always record every 1 second)

FYI: I finally had an update from Sam. My NGeco and cranks are sitting at p2max HQ in Germany waiting to be picked up by UPS. I should finally have them in about 2 weeks. Should hopefully have my new frameset a few weeks after that.
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

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MichaelB
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Re: First power meter - guidance and feedback please

Postby MichaelB » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:39 pm

Nothing like that to setup in the Bolt. Hmmmmmm.

Have submitted a query to the support page.

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queequeg
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Re: First power meter - guidance and feedback please

Postby queequeg » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:10 pm

MichaelB wrote:Nothing like that to setup in the Bolt. Hmmmmmm.

Have submitted a query to the support page.


I did a few Google searches and found that power averaging on the Wahoo seems to be a bit dodgy, but that the data in the actual file should still appear ok. Have you confirmed if the power readings look stable when you analyze the ride afterwards? Do you have another head unit you can try it with at the same time as the Bolt?
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

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MichaelB
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Re: First power meter - guidance and feedback please

Postby MichaelB » Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:15 pm

The power trace shows mostly zeros except for the spikes where I saw a reading, so think it’s more than the head unit.
Have the 1030 still to have a go, and will try that tomorrow.

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MichaelB
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Re: First power meter - guidance and feedback please

Postby MichaelB » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:05 pm

Have done some googling, and my power trace is opposite of what is often reported as dropouts. My dropouts are the power spikes !!

Will see what the 1030 does with it

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trailgumby
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Re: First power meter - guidance and feedback please

Postby trailgumby » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:30 pm

Is here anyone else locally you know with a PM? Maybe swap pairings and head units and see what the outcome is.

eeksll
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Re: zero power readings ....

Postby eeksll » Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:32 pm

queequeg wrote:FYI: I finally had an update from Sam. My NGeco and cranks are sitting at p2max HQ in Germany waiting to be picked up by UPS. I should finally have them in about 2 weeks. Should hopefully have my new frameset a few weeks after that.


that sounds like Australia stock is so far away, they are sending your unit by itself :?

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MichaelB
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Re: First power meter - guidance and feedback please

Postby MichaelB » Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:37 pm

Afraid not. The 1030 not playing ball, but have bigger issues.
Seems bottom edge of head tube and upper edge of fork are a bit too close and rubbing. Something not right there.

Will have a look in the morning.

lewie15
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Re: First power meter - guidance and feedback please

Postby lewie15 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:47 pm

After a couple of months deliberating over which power meter to get, I finally decided on the Vector 3's. Only got the single sided to begin with as funds are a bit tight after Christmas. Nice knowing that I can go down the dual sided upgrade down the track if I feel like I need to.

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MichaelB
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Re: First power meter - guidance and feedback please

Postby MichaelB » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:09 pm

Well after gagging about getting the 1030 setup again, went on morning ride with daughter. Same issue on both head units :-(. Then, after about 3km, voila, all good !!???!!???!?!

WTBH ?

The PM now functions as it should. Maybe it has an inbuilt learning time of about an hours riding ? I dunno. Either way, it seems to behave like it’s meant to. Oh, and other problem fixed too, so, all good now ! :-)

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andrewjcw
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Re: First power meter - guidance and feedback please

Postby andrewjcw » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:01 pm

Glad you got it working MB. My p2m has been faultless in the 3 weeks I've had it.

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queequeg
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Re: zero power readings ....

Postby queequeg » Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:51 pm

eeksll wrote:
queequeg wrote:FYI: I finally had an update from Sam. My NGeco and cranks are sitting at p2max HQ in Germany waiting to be picked up by UPS. I should finally have them in about 2 weeks. Should hopefully have my new frameset a few weeks after that.


that sounds like Australia stock is so far away, they are sending your unit by itself :?


I ordered this one back in August. P2max australia has not even opened up pre-orders for the NGeco yet. Mine is in the first order coming from germany, so there might be something going up on the website in a couple of weeks.

I have no idea why there is such a long delay. Maybe the Aus market is way down the pecking order, but the timing is ok for me as the frameset this is for won’t arrive until February anyway.
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

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MichaelB
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Re: First power meter - guidance and feedback please

Postby MichaelB » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:21 pm

andrewjcw wrote:Glad you got it working MB.

Me too !!!

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MichaelB
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Re: First power meter - guidance and feedback please

Postby MichaelB » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:15 pm

Now that the PM is all working like it should, did a 1st go at an FTP-ish type run, in that I went for it up Greenhill Rd in Adelaide. Didn't look at the power numbers, just focussed on the HR and doing similar to what I had done the last couple of times in that keeping it at the mid 160's (Max is 195 bpm) to start, and then ramping it up at the end to get into the mid/high 170's, and making sure I didn't blow to bits.

In the end, was about 10 sec of my recent best time, so that was good. Had just recovered from a bit of a lergy over Xmas, so was happy with the result. Here is a copy of the data from the segment.

Feedback ? (The climb is 7.2km and averages 6.6%, with a steep pitch at the beginning, but is pretty consistent). Numbers are a bit hard to read ;
Speed - Max 17.4km/hr, Avg 13.4 km/hr
Power - Max 424W, Avg 294W
HR - Max 184bpm, Avg 167bpm
Cadence - Max 91rpm, Avg 76rpm

Image

Oh, the slight dip in power/spike in cadence just after the 15km marker is a false flat about 1.8km from the end.

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queequeg
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Re: First power meter - guidance and feedback please

Postby queequeg » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:33 pm

MichaelB wrote:Now that the PM is all working like it should, did a 1st go at an FTP-ish type run, in that I went for it up Greenhill Rd in Adelaide. Didn't look at the power numbers, just focussed on the HR and doing similar to what I had done the last couple of times in that keeping it at the mid 160's (Max is 195 bpm) to start, and then ramping it up at the end to get into the mid/high 170's, and making sure I didn't blow to bits.

In the end, was about 10 sec of my recent best time, so that was good. Had just recovered from a bit of a lergy over Xmas, so was happy with the result. Here is a copy of the data from the segment.

Feedback ? (The climb is 7.2km and averages 6.6%, with a steep pitch at the beginning, but is pretty consistent). Numbers are a bit hard to read ;
Speed - Max 17.4km/hr, Avg 13.4 km/hr
Power - Max 424W, Avg 294W
HR - Max 184bpm, Avg 167bpm
Cadence - Max 91rpm, Avg 76rpm

Image

Oh, the slight dip in power/spike in cadence just after the 15km marker is a false flat about 1.8km from the end.


If you go into Strava (Premium), pick Training -> Power Curve. Select the "Show Estimated FTP" checkbox. It should give a relatively accurate estimate of your FTP, taking into account the ride you just did.
If you are going for an all out effort, you just have to judge it based on feel, which seems to be what you did (and pretty well I would say).
Once you have a good idea of your FTP, you can then start doing the climbs by holding power as a % of your FTP
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

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MichaelB
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Re: First power meter - guidance and feedback please

Postby MichaelB » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:06 pm

Ta, thanks for the tip. Just did the 'one month free' on the Strava Premium, and the number given is 291W.

Be interesting to see where it goes in the next few weeks given good weather and the ability to commute each day due to school holidays (this morning did 40km via Mt Lofty, so a good workout).

Gotta say, reasonably chuffed with that number :D

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queequeg
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Re: First power meter - guidance and feedback please

Postby queequeg » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:58 pm

MichaelB wrote:Ta, thanks for the tip. Just did the 'one month free' on the Strava Premium, and the number given is 291W.

Be interesting to see where it goes in the next few weeks given good weather and the ability to commute each day due to school holidays (this morning did 40km via Mt Lofty, so a good workout).

Gotta say, reasonably chuffed with that number :D


The number by itself is only part of the story. Convert it into W/kg, then have a look here (use your 20min power): http://blog.bikeridr.com/2012/03/perspective-of-power/

Before my injury I was sitting at 350 Watts FTP with a 78kg weight, so 4.48w/kg. That put me at the bottom of Cat 1. If I did the same test today and still, by some miracle put out 350W, I would be 3.76W/kg, and top of Cat 4 or middle of Cat 3. More than likely, I am lucky to pushing out 200W at the moment, so I have plunged to new depths of 2.15W/kg and squarely in the "untrained" category
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

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MichaelB
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Re: First power meter - guidance and feedback please

Postby MichaelB » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:18 pm

Now why would I ruin a nice FTP number by converting it to a w/kg number and getting really bummed !!!

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MichaelB
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Re: First power meter - guidance and feedback please

Postby MichaelB » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:27 am

Well, a quick update now that I've started logging some rides on the FSA Powerbox ;
- getting it going and recognised by the Wahoo Bolt was as easy as the instructions said it was :D
- the shifting from sm>big rings is fine (and vice versa) & the FSA MegaExo BB is also nice and smooth.
- aside from the '1st hour' dodgy numbers, the power readings are all seemingly good and consistent
- been doing as Alex suggested in that I'm riding how I used to and collecting data, rather than watching the power numbers
- signed up for the free Strava Premium 30 day trial, and learning about the Form/Fatigue/Fitness (F/F/F) curves
- also signed up to Training Peaks (won't subscribe) but like how some of their data is laid out, and makes keeping track of the TSS & IF by weekly total easy
- Wahoo still haven't fixed the TSS/IF calculation issue, but the TP upload fixes that
- need to read and learn a bit more about the F/F/F, TSS, IF and how they all work, but starting to get some understanding
- can see how that whilst I had a great week in Qld riding (426km & 4,500m of ascent), I could easily see the spike in fatigue & increase in fitness, and can see how that may have contributed to the cold I got a day after coming back

So, it's been an interesting exercise, and enjoying seeing some different data and learning about it.

Thanks for all the help and guidance to date. Just keeping the fingers crossed that the temp is reasonable on the 19th Jan. 38 degrees today and 41 tomorrow .....

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