I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr

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MichaelB
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I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr

Postby MichaelB » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:05 pm

Some of you will know, that I've been faffing about looking at getting a power meter, and after much teeth gnashing, wailing, moaning and indecision, I finally placed an order for an FSA Powerbox.

Given that my frame is a BB30 (42mm ID and 68mm shell width), and the crank is based around the FSA BB386EVO (46mm ID and 86.5mm shell width), I needed an adaptor.

No probs, as Bike24 (where I got the Powerbox from) had these 'adaptors/spacers' that essentially made up the width difference for bugger all, so I got them as well.

Sweet :D . Sort of. :?

Being a bit of a dork with a penchant for doing things right (in an engineering sense) saw the great opportunity to get a BB adaptor that screws together to try and eliminate one of the crappy things with press in BB's, and that is the dreaded creak. Haven't had too much of an issue, but I have an engineering background and ....

Anyway, lots more googling, and crap isn't there sooooooo many different standards with shell diameters, shell widths, crank diameters (Shimano at 24mm, Campagnolo at 25 & 30, SRAM, Rotor and some others at 30mm, then SRAM again with a 24/22mm hybrid, Easton, Verve U Turn with M30 - AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHHH :roll:

So, with some assistance, here is a list of suppliers that will do adaptors (and some that don't)

Kogel : do a Ceramic version for USD$199 + shipping
C-Bear : do a BB-BB30-386-R (ceramic bearings) for RRP of Euro 129, will sell direct or can get via Bike24
HSC - No options
Praxis Works - No Options
Wheels Mfg - No Options
Tri peak - do a Steel bearing (BB30-386-PKSBTF12) for A$178 delivered & a Ceramic (BB30-386-PKCBTF12) for A$225 delivered via eBay
Wishbone - do a Ceramic (BB30386) for A$178 delivered via eBay
FSA - Spacers for ~ $10 & a press together version
Token - Spacers for ~ $10
F1 Ceramics - No Options
Torq Tite (Enduro Bearings) - Euro250 + tools + shipping from Bike 24
BBInfinite - a press together version that costs USD$205 + shipping

[/sigh] :|

Wonder how long the cheap adaptors will last before I start burrowing down another rabbit hole .....

tcdev
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Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr

Postby tcdev » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:35 pm

You know the great thing about standards, right? That there's so many to choose from! :roll:
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MichaelB
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Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr

Postby MichaelB » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:28 pm

But they all think theirs is the right one !!!

The odd bit is that some of them don’t make some offerings despite the difference only being a beating size ?

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Duck!
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Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr

Postby Duck! » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:35 pm

The only real difference between BB30 and BB386 cranksets is the spindle length; both use a 30mm diameter spindle, 386 is just longer to suit the 90mm-wide (86mm shell + bearing cup flanges, 2mm each side) vs 68mm (with flush-fit bearings) for BB30. All you really need is an 11mm-wide x 30MM ID spacer on each side.

Propensity for creaking is very much related to the frame manufacturers' attention to tolerances (but press-fit in all its variations can take a long walk off a short pier). If the bike's been fine with the standard BB30 crank in it, it'll in all probability be just as fine with a spaced-out 386 crank in.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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MichaelB
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Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr

Postby MichaelB » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:18 am

From your experience Duck, what seems to be the standard that is gaining most traction in the road bike scene ?

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Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr

Postby Duck! » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:11 am

The main one I see is BB86, which is the type designed around Shimano, SRAM GXP , FSA Mega Exo etc.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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CaffeineAU
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Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr

Postby CaffeineAU » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:38 pm

Relevant...

Image

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Bentnose
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Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr

Postby Bentnose » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:37 pm

You've opened up a can of worms. I have a PF30 frame on my MTB and there is a distinct lack of 2x11 30mm cranks if I wanted to use them. I've just gone with a Wheels Manufacturing PF30 to outboard bottom bracket and will use Shimano cranks. I was perfectly happy with the English threaded bottom bracket standard.
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Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr

Postby Usernoname » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:10 pm

Bentnose wrote:You've opened up a can of worms. I have a PF30 frame on my MTB and there is a distinct lack of 2x11 30mm cranks if I wanted to use them. I've just gone with a Wheels Manufacturing PF30 to outboard bottom bracket and will use Shimano cranks. I was perfectly happy with the English threaded bottom bracket standard.

As were we all!

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Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr

Postby eeksll » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:23 pm

yeah I am confused with all the BB stuff. I know my frame is a BB30, but pretty sure it has a BSA adapter on it. Ill need to double check this over the break to make sure its BSA, then I will know what crank to order if/when i buy one.

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Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr

Postby Duck! » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:40 pm

Bentnose wrote:You've opened up a can of worms. I have a PF30 frame on my MTB and there is a distinct lack of 2x11 30mm cranks if I wanted to use them. I've just gone with a Wheels Manufacturing PF30 to outboard bottom bracket and will use Shimano cranks. I was perfectly happy with the English threaded bottom bracket standard.

PF30 is just BB30 with the bearings assembled in cups (in the same manner as BB86) rather than direct-fit into the frame. Contrary to what the manufacturers will try to tell you, there's eff-all difference between 9, 10 & 11-sp. cranksets, so they're not particularly fussy about what the rest of the drivetrain is, so basically any BB30 MTB crankset is going to work. That said, BB30 didn't really get the same uptake through the industry for MTB as it did road, so options will be more limited.

As someone who deals with this stuff on a daily basis, I can assure you that English thread is far and away my favourite too!
Last edited by Duck! on Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr

Postby Duck! » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:48 pm

eeksll wrote:yeah I am confused with all the BB stuff. I know my frame is a BB30, but pretty sure it has a BSA adapter on it. Ill need to double check this over the break to make sure its BSA, then I will know what crank to order if/when i buy one.

BSA adaptors are somewhat self-defeating..... Pressing in an adaptor to take a screwed-in bottom bracket is not really going to have the full security of a threaded system, because when you go to properly tighten the BB, there's nothing more than a wing & a prayer to stop the adaptor spinning in the frame..... Screw-together adaptors - basically two external-bearing housings with a threaded sleeve joining the two - are the best compromise.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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queequeg
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Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr

Postby queequeg » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:55 am

Just got my BSA-30 BB today with my delivery. With all these different standards, I had completely missed that you could in fact fit a 30mm crank to a frame that only had a threaded BSA shell.

Saved me having to swap cranks all over the place, so the Rotor 3D+ with p2max spider that came off my Cervelo S5 will now happily go straight onto my Lynskey commuter bike, and I don't need to buy a new crank and power meter. Winning. The BB cups have plenty of clearance around the p2max spider, so I am all set.
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Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr

Postby Duck! » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:20 am

Another one of those possibly accidental hybrids, BSA 30 (as the title suggests, a bb30-esque 30mm-diameter spindle through an English [BSA]-threaded frame) is essentially a BB386 crank with a screw-in, external bearing bottom bracket.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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MichaelB
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Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr

Postby MichaelB » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:45 am

For those that are interested, here is a good summary of the various standards from Paragon Machine works.

Oh, and from Wheels Manufacturing, BB Standards and crankset standards - the latter being very useful, as it gives bearing part numbers and ID/OD for their setup (except Campagnolo for some reason .....)

One that it does miss is the new, yes another one, M30 standard which has a 30mm dive side bearing and 28mm non-drive side one. The Praxis works adaptors work in a 68mm wide frame shell as well as others. Not sure what the spindle length is, but given it can fit in BB92 shell, it must be long.

Gotta laugh, the non-drive side is a proprietary :mrgreen: :roll: bearing

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queequeg
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Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr

Postby queequeg » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:09 pm

MichaelB wrote:For those that are interested, here is a good summary of the various standards from Paragon Machine works.

Oh, and from Wheels Manufacturing, BB Standards and crankset standards - the latter being very useful, as it gives bearing part numbers and ID/OD for their setup (except Campagnolo for some reason .....)

One that it does miss is the new, yes another one, M30 standard which has a 30mm dive side bearing and 28mm non-drive side one. The Praxis works adaptors work in a 68mm wide frame shell as well as others. Not sure what the spindle length is, but given it can fit in BB92 shell, it must be long.

Gotta laugh, the non-drive side is a proprietary :mrgreen: :roll: bearing


You mean it's proprietary like SRAM GXP where the Non-Drive Side is 22mm instead of 24mm?
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MichaelB
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Re: I HATE BB standards !!! Grrrrrr

Postby MichaelB » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:14 pm

queequeg wrote:
You mean it's proprietary like SRAM GXP where the Non-Drive Side is 22mm instead of 24mm?


AFAIK, that's still an OTS bearing. Still stoopid though.

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