Spoke related wheel building questions....

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queequeg
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Re: Spoke related wheel building questions....

Postby queequeg » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:46 pm

find_bruce wrote:
BJL wrote:I'm now considering the H+Sons Archetypes and found some complaints on forums regarding brake track life. It concerns me as I'm using rim brakes. ?

If brake track life concerns you, think about the hard anodised rims which should give better wear. Best price I have seen on them is AU$94 from Wiggle - let me know if you find a better price.


I very nearly did that, but I have never seen the hard anodised ones in real life and I wasn't sure how it was going to look. The black ones are pretty nice though, and they were $89 each from wiggle. You can get them locally from Craftworx for $89.95, but then you'll get hit with $20 shipping, so they work out more expensive than Wiggle (unless you are in Brisbane and can pick them up!)
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

BJL
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Re: Spoke related wheel building questions....

Postby BJL » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:22 pm

Thank you to everyone who replied to my comment and questions. I hope some of it helps others as it has helped me. :)

Duck - What happened was that I was initially looking at using DT Swiss R460 rims with my 6700 Ultegra Hubs (barely run in so loathe to throw them out and 10 speed is fine for now). The DT Swiss calculator says 291.2 (gives a rounded figure of 291.0 in the PDF it created for me) for the rear left and I wondered whether I should be rounding that up or down since I could only find even millimetre lengths at the online stores I looked at. For those interested, the rear right spokes worked out to be 289.5 (rounded up to 290.0) and the fronts, 292.0mm

* I haven't yet done the calculations for Archetype rims. I'll get around to it eventually. The rear wheel that came with the bike will just have to last a little longer because I'm lazy. (It's worked for the last 12 months :D )

queequeg - For the above, I also used the 'spocalc.xls' spreadsheet downloaded from sheldonbrown to confirm things. It came within 0.1mm of DT Swiss. Fronts were the same. Both rears worked out 0.1mm shorter but once rounded, it's all the same. Almost forgot, I'm in Melbourne but thanks for the offer. I think I'll go with the Archetypes as they're slightly wider rims and look better :)

find_bruce wrote:If brake track life concerns you, think about the hard anodised rims which should give better wear. Best price I have seen on them is AU$94 from Wiggle - let me know if you find a better price.


I'm not overly concerned about brake track wear. If I stick with the Archetypes in the long term, it's not difficult to replace rims. It's when you start changing rims or hubs and new spokes are required as well that it gets to be a hassle and expensive which is a consideration when you go down the hand built wheel route. It's often cheaper and easier to just buy off the shelf wheels every few years and treat them as consumables like chains and brake pads.

For me though, I like to know how to do things myself so I'll persevere with the hand built wheels this time around as a learning exercise. You never know, I might actually end up good at it :o

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thecaptn
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Re: Spoke related wheel building questions....

Postby thecaptn » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:01 pm

biker jk wrote:Which width tyres are you planning to use? If 25mm, then they will be 27mm or more wide on that rim which measures 25.85mm, so that the aero properties will be diminished.

Also, you won't achieve much spoke tension on the non-drive side. Off the top of my head I think that Dura Ace hub will give you 50% non-drive side tension, so if you went to 130kgf on the drive side the non-drive side spokes will be at 65kgf. I don't know what you weigh so it may or may not be an issue. Shimano factory wheelsets use an offset rear rim which achieves higher non-drive spoke tension. You can also do triplet (2:1) lacing if the rims and hubs are drilled for this option, which gives much more balanced spoke tension between the drive side and non-drive side.

I asked the rim manufacturer whether the rims would work well with 23mm tires and they said while they would be OK they recommended 25's because that's what they were designed for. I only use gp4000's which I find are wider on the rim when compared to other brands but it doesn't bother me. I've had 23mm and 28mm on Archetypes and they came to 25mm and 32mm respectively. The only issue I might have could be fitting them in the frame.
I'm 105kg, that's why I'm no weight weenie with my components and am just happy to have nice things that don't break :D I'm currently riding Ultegra hubs to Archetypes 32 spoke with DT Comps 2 cross, they've been reliable. I'm hoping that the heavier spokes I'm putting on this build will have less stretch, combined with the 3 cross pattern will give me stiff, strong wheels but my knowledge is pretty limited and I'm just going to have to suck it and see.

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rifraf
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Re: Spoke related wheel building questions....

Postby rifraf » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:55 am

thecaptn wrote:Hi All,

I'm building my first wheelset and am seeking some opinions/advice.

I have my hubs, rims and spoke lengths sorted.

>I was planning to use DT aerolite spokes but they're quite expensive, I can get Sapim CX Ray's for about 1/3 the price and have heard that they're OK. Any opinions on this?

>The Sapim spokes are 2.0mm at the hub but the spoke holes in the hub are 2.5mm, is this an issue?

>I am planning to use Brass Nipples, will any brand, gauge or length work with whichever spoke I go with? Is one option better than any other?


All opinions and advice are very much appreciated,
Peter


I had my bikes wheels built with Sapim CX-Rays back in 2012 from memory.
They are used for heavily laden touring and I've been so happy with them I mirrored my front wheel build (disk braked dynamo-hub and 36 CX-Rays) for my Extrawheel trailer.
They have been serviced (tension checked) twice in that time and given no breakages or issues so far.
My only regret was not knowing enough about wheel building to specify brass nipples and thus got alloy Sapim Polyax ones which I'm told will eventually seize.
I'd have no hesitation in getting the same spokes again. as they mirror the same build as my previous bike in that I specified Dyad rims and CX-Rays, only on that bike the wheels were 406 instead of my current bikes 622 rim size.
I bought my spokes from one of the German sites back then as I think locally they were over ten dollars each at the time.
I'm not suggesting one spoke over another, merely saying that my CX-Rays have offered a decent service life and I'm happy with them.
No I didn't buy them for any aero-dynamic considerations but for their supposed fatigue life over some others.
Good luck with your choice.
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.

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queequeg
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Re: Spoke related wheel building questions....

Postby queequeg » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:38 pm

All my spokes from Bike24 arrived on Friday afternoon, so I pulled the old wheels apart on Saturday, found that the bearing in the rear hub were running pretty rough, so I replaced all 5 bearings and they are running like butter again.
I have both wheels now laced to the H Plus Son rims with the DT Aerocomp spokes & Black Brass nipples. With the Anodized Red Hope Pro 2 EVO Hubs they look pretty darn sexy.

I took my frame up the local shop yesterday and had the new headset and fork fitted, so I just need to finish the wheels. I stuffed up and forgot that the bladed spoke tool I have only goes up to a 1mm thickness, and this time I am using 1.2mm thick spokes, so I need to grab another tool in order to tension the wheels.
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

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thecaptn
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Re: Spoke related wheel building questions....

Postby thecaptn » Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:40 pm

How do you find the spokes? Are they oval or square? Are they noticeably heavier or stiffer? I 'spose you won't know until you start tensioning them up. I'm looking forward to hearing about how they ride.

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queequeg
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Re: Spoke related wheel building questions....

Postby queequeg » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:01 am

thecaptn wrote:How do you find the spokes? Are they oval or square? Are they noticeably heavier or stiffer? I 'spose you won't know until you start tensioning them up. I'm looking forward to hearing about how they ride.


The Aerocomp spokes are visually no different to the Aerolite spokes. Only the thickness of the spoke differs, with the Aerocomp being 0.3mm thicker.
If you had one of each spoke in each hand, there is no way you can tell the difference visually. If you put them side by side, or flex them, it's easy to spot the difference.
I haven't weighed my wheels yet, nor does it really matter for this set, as they are built to be bomb-proof on a commuter bike.

I just have to go and get the bladed spoke tool for the 1.2mm thick spokes. I stupidly forgot that the one I had was designed for spokes up to 1mm thick only, so they were fine for the Aerolite spokes (0.9mm), but I can't get the Aerocomp spoke into the slot. I should have added the tool when I ordered the spokes, but I forgot.
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

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