weight of MTBs

cooperplace
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weight of MTBs

Postby cooperplace » Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:25 pm

I'm thinking of building a MTB because there are lots of attractive tracks for them near my place, but I'm surprised at how heavy they are. My wife's weigh's a ton. Looking at stuff that maybe could be removed, I'm thinking suspension: can I do without front suspension?

BTW the tracks I'll be taking are fairly tame, which suits me.
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bychosis
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Re: weight of MTBs

Postby bychosis » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:12 pm

Use the old cycling rule of strong,light,cheap: pick any two.

It’s up to you if you want/need suspension. MTB are by nature built to be strong, but rigid forks will save some weight. Lighter tyres and wheels will save some more, but be less robust. Suspension really comes into its own on tougher trails and for descending. It really reduces arm fatigue and increases the difficulty of the terrain you can easily ride.

How heavy are you talking? Nowadays a basic road bike will be somewhere near 10kg, but MTB will be closer to 14.

I’ve just gone from a 10.8kg dually to one near 14kg, but it’s much more fun to ride due to the geometry and extra suspension travel. I don’t really notice the extra weight except when lifting it into the back of the ute.
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eeksll
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Re: weight of MTBs

Postby eeksll » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:18 pm

cooperplace wrote:I'm thinking of building a MTB because there are lots of attractive tracks for them near my place, but I'm surprised at how heavy they are. My wife's weigh's a ton. Looking at stuff that maybe could be removed, I'm thinking suspension: can I do without front suspension?

BTW the tracks I'll be taking are fairly tame, which suits me.


which tracks? I am also in Adelaide and I have had a personal resurgence of using the MTB again. It is great fun, even though I am the slowest and least skillful amongst my friends.

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Re: weight of MTBs

Postby NASHIE » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:23 pm

cooperplace wrote:I'm thinking of building a MTB because there are lots of attractive tracks for them near my place, but I'm surprised at how heavy they are. My wife's weigh's a ton. Looking at stuff that maybe could be removed, I'm thinking suspension: can I do without front suspension?

BTW the tracks I'll be taking are fairly tame, which suits me.


Mate I'm a bit of CX bike convert of late. Picked up a 2nd hand low k bike with all the gear for $1500 weights 9kg and is great fun on tame MTB tracks. The added plus is you can enjoy the ride to and from the track instead of loading MTBs in the car etc. I know you can ride MTB on the road, but if your a roadie and not keen on chasing hard core trails a CX is great alteritive.

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Re: weight of MTBs

Postby Neddysmith » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:19 am

A bit confused you say this, i had a alloy HT mountain bike which weighed about 10kg, which was about 2008 model i think maybe earlier, then i have upgraded to SWorks 2009 enduro which i think weights about 11kg picked up for a bargain of $1200 about 5yrs ago. so yeah some MTB do weigh a tone, these days its not uncommon to get lightweight (sub 10kg) mountain bikes, and if not tackling harder/rougher trails, a hardtail is fine and will come in lighter.

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bychosis
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Re: weight of MTBs

Postby bychosis » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:40 am

Neddysmith wrote:A bit confused you say this, i had a alloy HT mountain bike which weighed about 10kg, which was about 2008 model i think maybe earlier, then i have upgraded to SWorks 2009 enduro which i think weights about 11kg picked up for a bargain of $1200 about 5yrs ago. so yeah some MTB do weigh a tone, these days its not uncommon to get lightweight (sub 10kg) mountain bikes, and if not tackling harder/rougher trails, a hardtail is fine and will come in lighter.

I would imagine that a HT at 10kg would be a fairly high spec item. 10kg is a pretty good weight for MTB. The SWorks is the top of the range and would be expected to be amongst the lightest around, 11kg for an enduro bike is pretty light. For comparison My 2017 Trek Remedy is close to 14kg (under) from the shop and from what I'd seen similar spec bikes were similar weight. My previous alloy dually was alloy frame, but had carbon bars, seatpost, reasonably light forks, fairly light 26" wheels and light tyres run tubeless to get under 11kg.
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Re: weight of MTBs

Postby trailgumby » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:11 pm

If you're thinking of ditching front suspension allow me to tell you my tale from the 2017 Mont 24.

I'd been having some problems with my fork lockout not releasing on the bars and figured if I simply didn't lock the fork on the climbs I'd be right. I'd run out of time to get it sorted, or so I thought, it seemed trivial, so didn't bother sending in for service. Work had been rather busy. Anyway, enough with the excuses.

First lap and through the night the fork got stiffer and stiffer to the point where it would be Ok on the really big hits, but was ridiculously overdamped everywhere else, providing no suspension on the smaller trail chatter and braking bumps at all, especially for the last couple of kilometres on the downhill berms and switchbacks. As anyone who has done these events knows the braking bumps at the entrance and through these corners get worse not better as the night wears on.

It got to the point where for my last two laps I was fearful of being able to hang on, and had to let the elite guys fly past where normally I'd expect to be able to hang on to their wheel for at least a few hundred metres through the berms, especially with my awesome MyTinySun lights. With my improved cornering as a result of Fi Dick's coaching, I was disappointed to have to just let them go. My wrists were copping an absolute beating. The Mont trail is a long way from being technical - it's a 24hr course.

I was super relieved to finish my last lap. My shoulders were starting to hurt a lot and on the way up to our team campsite from the finish line my they swelled up and I was feeling stabbing pains through the sheaths where the tendons and nerves slide. I was done. Just as well the event was finished. I had nothing left and my wrist and shoulders could not have borne another lap.

Turned out it was the lockout in the fork had mostly closed and on the big hits I was being saved by the blow-off valve. Coulda been much uglier with out that. 93km of no front suspension. It took me a few weeks to recover and be able to ride pain free.

Long story short, get front suspension.

cooperplace
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Re: weight of MTBs

Postby cooperplace » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:21 pm

Ok, you talked me into it. I'll get front suspension. But hardtail.
I'd get a Ti frame, probably XACD.
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cooperplace
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Re: weight of MTBs

Postby cooperplace » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:41 pm

eeksll wrote:
cooperplace wrote:I'm thinking of building a MTB because there are lots of attractive tracks for them near my place, but I'm surprised at how heavy they are. My wife's weigh's a ton. Looking at stuff that maybe could be removed, I'm thinking suspension: can I do without front suspension?

BTW the tracks I'll be taking are fairly tame, which suits me.


which tracks? I am also in Adelaide and I have had a personal resurgence of using the MTB again. It is great fun, even though I am the slowest and least skillful amongst my friends.

I live near the bottom of the freeway, so I'm thinking Eagle mountain bike park and Cleland. I'd be very grateful for your thoughts.
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Re: weight of MTBs

Postby andrewjcw » Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:24 am

If you're on anything close to a proper mtb track and not just a walking track or gravel road, a front shock is worth it's weight many times over in comfort and control.

I love cruising about singletrack on my CX bike, but to enjoy it you need to carefully select only the smoothest trails. You can get through rough stuff slowly but it's not fun at all.

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Re: weight of MTBs

Postby ldrcycles » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:28 am

I went full weight weenie on my xc hardtail years ago, got an entry level GT Aggressor down below 10kgs, partly due to aluminium rigid forks. I found out the hard way that they were a REALLY bad idea on anything but the smoothest fire roads.

That was on fairly skinny 26" tyres though, so with the much fatter tyres that are on mtbs these days, rigid may just be a little more usable.
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Re: weight of MTBs

Postby eeksll » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:09 pm

cooperplace wrote:
eeksll wrote:
cooperplace wrote:I'm thinking of building a MTB because there are lots of attractive tracks for them near my place, but I'm surprised at how heavy they are. My wife's weigh's a ton. Looking at stuff that maybe could be removed, I'm thinking suspension: can I do without front suspension?

BTW the tracks I'll be taking are fairly tame, which suits me.


which tracks? I am also in Adelaide and I have had a personal resurgence of using the MTB again. It is great fun, even though I am the slowest and least skillful amongst my friends.

I live near the bottom of the freeway, so I'm thinking Eagle mountain bike park and Cleland. I'd be very grateful for your thoughts.


Ill ask my more knowledgeable MTB friends. Most of them are going dual suspension. Might be more of a fun factor going from front shock only to dual suspension.

I think there are a few tracks in the cleland area you can get away without suspension (firetrails). But yeah, if your going a bit quicker, you might all of a sudden hit a section that ain't too fun without the shocks.

cooperplace
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Re: weight of MTBs

Postby cooperplace » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:49 pm

bychosis wrote:Use the old cycling rule of strong,light,cheap: pick any two.

How heavy are you talking? Nowadays a basic road bike will be somewhere near 10kg, but MTB will be closer to 14.

I’ve just gone from a 10.8kg dually to one near 14kg, but it’s much more fun to ride due to the geometry and extra suspension travel. I don’t really notice the extra weight except when lifting it into the back of the ute.

my Ti framed road bike is about 8.5kg, which shows what sort of level of MTB I'd like. I'd like it to be closer to 10 than 14kg.
As for lifting it into the back of the ute, that's EXACTLY the situation where the extra weight will bother me -and my back.

I can throw my Ti bike, or my wife's carbon road, into the back of the car no probs. Her cheap, nasty heavy MTB makes me worry that I'll bust a gut lifting it.
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Re: weight of MTBs

Postby bychosis » Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:19 pm

Fair enough. If you were concerned about the weight while riding, it’s much less of an issue.

Be prepared for quite a few coins to get light. It seems the manufacturers start with strong, heavy and maintain strong while increasing ‘quality’ for a fair way up the range before they start thinking about reducing weight and light generally requires carbon to maintain strong.

I was quite surprised at the extra weight in cheap forks, over 2kg.
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Re: weight of MTBs

Postby cooperplace » Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:21 pm

yeah, I think I'll go either carbon or a Ti from XACD. They did my road bike frame and I'm very happy with it.

Re a carbon MTB frame, any recommendations would be welcome.

I'll probably build the MTB myself: I'm funny that way; I prefer to ride bikes I've built.
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Re: weight of MTBs

Postby mikgit » Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:51 pm

My Ti HT comes in a bit under 11kg, my Aluminium HT about10.5, my FS bike around 12...really notice the difference when hefting them about (not riding)...but I really notice it more when saddle bag/o saddle bag, sometimes I wonder what the heck I have in there (bricks maybe)...then my roadie is a bit over 7kg, makes the HT's feel like lead.
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Re: weight of MTBs

Postby Duck! » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:55 pm

My carbon duallie weighs a tad over 10kg, while my aluminium version from the same model series is a bit under 12. Although the carbon bike is nicer to ride overall, in outright terms the weight difference isn't really obvious. What is more apparent is the difference in weight balance. The aluminium bike is a little more rear-biased - its fork is about 150g lighter - so it "flies" better off jumps, where the carbon bike tends to want to drop its front end, which can make landings a bit hairy.
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Re: weight of MTBs

Postby Bentnose » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:07 pm

cooperplace wrote:yeah, I think I'll go either carbon or a Ti from XACD. They did my road bike frame and I'm very happy with it.

Re a carbon MTB frame, any recommendations would be welcome.

I'll probably build the MTB myself: I'm funny that way; I prefer to ride bikes I've built.


Don't know how tall you are, but for a carbon frame recommendation I bought one of these https://www.cyclingdeal.com.au/buy/pina ... ead/FM-PIN they only have XL left now though. Haven't actually built mine yet.
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cooperplace
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Re: weight of MTBs

Postby cooperplace » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:33 pm

thanks, i'm short, I'll be looking for a small frame. There's also the 26/27.5/29" issue. I'm leaning towards 27.5.
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cooperplace
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Re: weight of MTBs

Postby cooperplace » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:58 pm

has anyone tried a Tideace carbon MTB frame?
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Re: weight of MTBs

Postby Calvin27 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:46 am

cooperplace wrote:
bychosis wrote:As for lifting it into the back of the ute, that's EXACTLY the situation where the extra weight will bother me -and my back.


Careful out on the trails then. MTB is quite a 'crash' hot sport :P.

I run pretty basic spec MTBs. Think like Deore level components. My 29 hardtail is 10.5kg with alloy frame (rebaWC forks 1x10 and tubeless XC tyres). My alloy dually is 14kg tubes and also 1x10. A sub 10kg mtb is certainly achievable especially for a smaller wheels size and a lighter rider.

If you have back problems, I'd strongly suggest you not only get front, but also rear suspension. I you want low weight in this configuration, the cannondale lefty folks seem to get ridiculous weight bikes.
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Re: weight of MTBs

Postby bychosis » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:51 am

^ not quite my quote.

I'm not worried about the weight of my MTB or my kids bikes (they don't get the flash lightweight stuff). It's the BigW fat bike that gets me, it's current;y going on a diet but kicked off at 23kg.
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Re: weight of MTBs

Postby eeksll » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:54 am

eeksll wrote:....

Ill ask my more knowledgeable MTB friends. Most of them are going dual suspension. Might be more of a fun factor going from front shock only to dual suspension.

I think there are a few tracks in the cleland area you can get away without suspension (firetrails). But yeah, if your going a bit quicker, you might all of a sudden hit a section that ain't too fun without the shocks.


so it seems all my group are drinking the dual suspension cool-aid, so I don't think I can help here. One guy did most those trails on a hard tail but prefers the dual suspension.

I am also on dual suspension, never tried anything else. I certainly notice some areas riding up hill, I find it hard to get traction with the rear suspension locked out.

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Re: weight of MTBs

Postby bychosis » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:06 am

Calvin27 wrote:If you have back problems, I'd strongly suggest you not only get front, but also rear suspension. I you want low weight in this configuration, the cannondale lefty folks seem to get ridiculous weight bikes.


True dat. Although if you can ride on a roadie on less than perfect roads, riding gentle fire trails will probably be fine.

The biggest thing I found with a hardtail after riding a dually for too many years was how much you notice the trail features kicking you out of the saddle when you are seated and just pootling along. It can get quite jarring on the back.
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cooperplace
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Re: weight of MTBs

Postby cooperplace » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:05 pm

hmm you guys are making me think dual suspension.
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