Which first road bike? Canyon endurace al7, reid vantage endurance 2 or specialised Allez elite

TheDotProd
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Which first road bike? Canyon endurace al7, reid vantage endurance 2 or specialised Allez elite

Postby TheDotProd » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:52 am

Hi

I'm looking to commute to work about 30km each way and want to upgrade from my 25 year old mountain bike to something a little faster.

I initially was drawn to trek domane and the new checkpoint but they seem really expensive in Australia.

I came across the reid vantage endurance 2 which seems like amazing value but are worried as there are some intensely negative opinions of Reid.
Reading this forum there seems to be a lot of issues, but is it just brand bias?

Canyon endurace Al 7 looks great but doesn't support tubeless tyres out of the box.
Upgrading to the Al 7 disc fixes that but pushes the price to $2.4k after delivery getting close to a Cycles Galleria trek retail experience price point.

Specialised Allez elite looks great should be around $1.5k but seems to have vanished following a recall on the fork.

All bikes mentioned have some 105 gear with only canyon digging in for a full set.
Reid use the previous model 105 crank, and specialised use some other alternative crank.

Ideally I'd like to go tubeless and run 28mm tyres. Disc brakes would be cool as I plan to ride in the rain.
If I go for the reid I would have the budget to upgrade to some 28m schwable pro one tubeless tyres right away.
The disc brake canyon ships with pretty decent tubed 28mm slicks so I could probably wait and upgrade to tubeless later.

What do you guys think? Am I on the right track?

Is Reid a purchase I won't regret? Or should I go to a bike shop like cycles Galleria, pay loads for a trek or Cannondale but actually get service like a 30 min bike fit, and lifetime free servicing?

Thanks in advance!

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Mububban
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Re: Which first road bike? Canyon endurace al7, reid vantage endurance 2 or specialised Allez elite

Postby Mububban » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:02 pm

Depends if you want to play it safe on your first road bike and not overspend just in case you don't like them. Or jump in with both feet because you're sure you'll like it, and want to keep that particular bike for a few years (warning - upgraditis is a very real thing).

The Reid is $1200 with free shipping.
The Canyon is $2350 incl shipping.
The Allez Sport is $1250, and the Allez Sprint Comp is $2400 on the Spesh website.

For the extra $1000 you'll get better wheels and hydraulic disc brakes instead of mechanical disc brakes. I've got no experience with mechanical discs, but love my hydraulic discs especially for winter riding.

I reckon that Reid is a great buy at that price. Shimano 105 will never fail you and I'm sure their frames are perfectly fine. Wheels and tyres can be upgraded if required/desired.

The Canyon looks killer in blue and reviews are universally glowing.

FWIW I changed from commuting on a mountain bike, bought a $1500 road bike, absolutely love it and am now planning to buy a $3500-$5000 carbon road bike once finances improve :D
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Re: Which first road bike? Canyon endurace al7, reid vantage endurance 2 or specialised Allez elite

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:04 am

Never thought I'd see a post comparing a Canyon and a Specialized to a Reid...have you had a look thru the Giant range ? A Giant Defy may be the answer...just thinking.
Mmm, SunTour

fergy1987
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Re: Which first road bike? Canyon endurace al7, reid vantage endurance 2 or specialised Allez elite

Postby fergy1987 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:40 am

I mean I do like that Canyon, But if you are new to a road bike I'd probably be looking at buying in store instead of online. Also assess where you are putting this bike when you commute. Nothing worse than a 2400 dollar bike getting nicked or damaged by someone who smashes their bike into yours.

Also....have you actually encountered free lifetime servicing :| Because that sounds pretty freaking awesome

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Re: Which first road bike? Canyon endurace al7, reid vantage endurance 2 or specialised Allez elite

Postby g-boaf » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:45 am

TheDotProd wrote:Hi

I'm looking to commute to work about 30km each way and want to upgrade from my 25 year old mountain bike to something a little faster.

I initially was drawn to trek domane and the new checkpoint but they seem really expensive in Australia.

I came across the reid vantage endurance 2 which seems like amazing value but are worried as there are some intensely negative opinions of Reid.
Reading this forum there seems to be a lot of issues, but is it just brand bias?

Canyon endurace Al 7 looks great but doesn't support tubeless tyres out of the box.
Upgrading to the Al 7 disc fixes that but pushes the price to $2.4k after delivery getting close to a Cycles Galleria trek retail experience price point.

Specialised Allez elite looks great should be around $1.5k but seems to have vanished following a recall on the fork.

All bikes mentioned have some 105 gear with only canyon digging in for a full set.
Reid use the previous model 105 crank, and specialised use some other alternative crank.

Ideally I'd like to go tubeless and run 28mm tyres. Disc brakes would be cool as I plan to ride in the rain.
If I go for the reid I would have the budget to upgrade to some 28m schwable pro one tubeless tyres right away.
The disc brake canyon ships with pretty decent tubed 28mm slicks so I could probably wait and upgrade to tubeless later.

What do you guys think? Am I on the right track?

Is Reid a purchase I won't regret? Or should I go to a bike shop like cycles Galleria, pay loads for a trek or Cannondale but actually get service like a 30 min bike fit, and lifetime free servicing?

Thanks in advance!


The Canyon I looked at online:

https://www.canyon.com/en-au/road/endur ... l-7-0.html

Should be fine for braking with the right pads. Even in the rain. But unless you can lock it up somewhere secure, this Canyon is far too nice for commuting use. Some degenerates would happily scratch it, tip it over or try and damage it however possible just because they can.

Perhaps keeping your mountain bike might be the better bet and save the nice road bike for non-commute rides.

For the price of what you were originally looking at, the following would be the go:
https://www.canyon.com/en-au/road/endur ... l-8-0.html

The Ultegra components are a bit nicer as well.

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Thoglette
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Re: Which first road bike? Canyon endurace al7, reid vantage endurance 2 or specialised Allez elite

Postby Thoglette » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:55 pm

If you're commuting 30km each way in the rain I'm going to make the same comment I usually make: ensure you get something with room for proper, full length mudguards.

On tyres: 28mm is a good place to start but for me 32mm is a happier place.

Especially if you insist on going tubeless - the skinner the tyre the more PSI you have to run and the more critical the tyre/wheel match up is.

Now if you really want a road (race) bike don't let me stop you. At least you're proposing gears, brakes and sensible tyres.

However there's better bikes for long range commuting in the "roubaix", "gravel", "allroad" and light weight touring areas: room for larger tyres and mudguards; eyelets for guards and racks; slightly more relaxed geometry.
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TheDotProd
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Re: Which first road bike? Canyon endurace al7, reid vantage endurance 2 or specialised Allez elite

Postby TheDotProd » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:35 am

10speedsemiracer wrote:Never thought I'd see a post comparing a Canyon and a Specialized to a Reid...have you had a look thru the Giant range ? A Giant Defy may be the answer...just thinking.


Definitely like the Giant defy, trek domane and checkpoint, and Cannondale case 12

They look awesome, but not only do they push up my budget, but even at the $3k mark they substitute some iffy parts here and there. From proprietary hybrid brake systems, tiagra gears, cheaper cranks.

How much better if at all are the frames of the big store brands over the reid?

Why is Canyon cool, but Reid so very not? They are both value focused internet direct brands with Asian frames and Shimano gear.

Component wise the reid vantage 2.0 seems to be very competitive with the $3k bikes from the big brands.

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Re: Which first road bike? Canyon endurace al7, reid vantage endurance 2 or specialised Allez elite

Postby TheDotProd » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:41 am

fergy1987 wrote:Also....have you actually encountered free lifetime servicing :| Because that sounds pretty freaking awesome


The Cycles Galleria guys in Melbourne claim to as part of their pitch for selling bikes at full RRP.
Now I'm not really sure on the finer points of the contract but their sales team use it to argue that I will save money in the medium to long term buying a $2.5k - $3k bike at full RRP from them vs buying from their competition or purchasing a cheaper Reid.
NFI how many times a year they will service, and what they consider a lifetime to be.
Also I imagine all the parts they use in the service are not free and are priced at a premium which is why they would do it.

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Re: Which first road bike? Canyon endurace al7, reid vantage endurance 2 or specialised Allez elite

Postby biker jk » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:54 am

TheDotProd wrote:
10speedsemiracer wrote:Never thought I'd see a post comparing a Canyon and a Specialized to a Reid...have you had a look thru the Giant range ? A Giant Defy may be the answer...just thinking.


Definitely like the Giant defy, trek domane and checkpoint, and Cannondale case 12

They look awesome, but not only do they push up my budget, but even at the $3k mark they substitute some iffy parts here and there. From proprietary hybrid brake systems, tiagra gears, cheaper cranks.

How much better if at all are the frames of the big store brands over the reid?

Why is Canyon cool, but Reid so very not? They are both value focused internet direct brands with Asian frames and Shimano gear.

Component wise the reid vantage 2.0 seems to be very competitive with the $3k bikes from the big brands.


Do Reid x-ray every carbon fork they put on their bikes like Canyon do? This is labour intensive and costly. Go read some reviews of the Canyon AL frame. It's chalk and cheese with Reid.

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Re: Which first road bike? Canyon endurace al7, reid vantage endurance 2 or specialised Allez elite

Postby TheDotProd » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:00 am

g-boaf wrote:
Should be fine for braking with the right pads. Even in the rain. But unless you can lock it up somewhere secure, this Canyon is far too nice for commuting use. Some degenerates would happily scratch it, tip it over or try and damage it however possible just because they can.

Perhaps keeping your mountain bike might be the better bet and save the nice road bike for non-commute rides.



Planning to put it in an office building bike shed not parked on the street.
But I'm a consultant, so in future I may not have a secure bike shed that I can make use of. I think it's 80% likely my future clients will be in the CBD where I can make use of their bike shed based on past deployments.

That said of course there might be jerks in the bike shed

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Re: Which first road bike? Canyon endurace al7, reid vantage endurance 2 or specialised Allez elite

Postby TheDotProd » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:02 am

Thank you for the amazing responses everyone. Still not 100% sure which way I will go, but lots of great advice I really appreciate!

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Re: Which first road bike? Canyon endurace al7, reid vantage endurance 2 or specialised Allez elite

Postby TheDotProd » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:26 pm

Just realised I get 15% off trek for being a Bupa member, which means the trek domane alr5 goes from $3k to about $2.5k which puts it in the same ballpark canyon.

And the Giant contend 1 SL disc is frequently sold for $1.7k, just $500 more than the Reid, sure I'd have the oddball hybrid disc brakes, but it comes fitted with tubeless tyres and the current 105 gear.

Mmmm :D

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Re: Which first road bike? Canyon endurace al7, reid vantage endurance 2 or specialised Allez elite

Postby TheDotProd » Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:58 pm

Okay narrowed it down to a choice of

TREK Domane alr 5 with Bupa discount or
Canyon endurace Al 7 disc


TREK pros:
Local bike shop
Great comfort
Mudguard mounts
Great warranty
Cons:
A little heavy at 9.4kg
Press fit bottom bracket
Have to wait for 2018/2019 alr 5 to come in stock in au

Canyon pros:
Great looks
High quality components
Great weight at 8.6kg
Threaded bottom bracket
Cons:
Internet direct
Weaker warranty

How likely am I to regret the extra weight of the Trek, versus potential warranty & fit issues with the canyon?

How do the Bontrager wheels compare to the gt Swiss in the canyon?

Will one likely be 'faster' than the other?

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Re: Which first road bike? Canyon endurace al7, reid vantage endurance 2 or specialised Allez elite

Postby Tim » Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:25 pm

TheDotProd wrote:How likely am I to regret the extra weight of the Trek,

Not much, almost imperceptible.
A meat pie and can of softdrink for lunch weighs more. :D

TheDotProd wrote:...versus potential warranty & fit issues with the canyon?
.
I like local warranties. Twice claimed on two out of four frame purchases.
However Canyon have a good reputation. I've not yet heard of a broken Canyon frame.

TheDotProd wrote:How do the Bontrager wheels compare to the gt Swiss in the canyon?

Both good.

TheDotProd wrote:Will one likely be 'faster' than the other?

No. You will be faster after 12 weeks riding if you work at it.

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Re: Which first road bike? Canyon endurace al7, reid vantage endurance 2 or specialised Allez elite

Postby TheDotProd » Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:56 am

Tim wrote:
TheDotProd wrote:How likely am I to regret the extra weight of the Trek,

Not much, almost imperceptible.
A meat pie and can of softdrink for lunch weighs more. :D

TheDotProd wrote:...versus potential warranty & fit issues with the canyon?
.
I like local warranties. Twice claimed on two out of four frame purchases.
However Canyon have a good reputation. I've not yet heard of a broken Canyon frame.


Thanks Tim.
Ready to pull the trigger on a Trek from a LBS now :-)

What do you think of the Checkpoint alr 5 vs the Domane alr 5?
I was originally drawn to it as coming from a mountain bike it seemed like both road capable and familiar but I ruled it out due to its relatively porky 9.8kg.

It's $300 cheaper uses treks 300 series ALU (is that 7000 ALU light stiff but brittle in regular speak?) And comes with the excellent schwable g-one tyres.
The ALU version has no ISO speed vibration damping, and doesn't even come with a carbon seat post. TREK is relying on the fat tyres to absorb all the bumps.

Both the Domane and the Checkpoint alr 5 have a proper Shimano 105 and can mount proper fenders for wet weather rides.

The checkpoint is slightly more appropriate for bike packing which could be useful for some comutes.
But I live near the bottom of the dandenongs in Victoria, and I think im more likely to want to build up towards some mountain climbing as a long term fitness goal rather than bike packing.

Thanks all for your advice once again :-)

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Re: Which first road bike? Canyon endurace al7, reid vantage endurance 2 or specialised Allez elite

Postby Tim » Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:40 pm

TheDotProd wrote:What do you think of the Checkpoint alr 5 vs the Domane alr 5?


Both nice looking bikes and 105 equipped which is a very good value and quality groupset.
I don't know anything much about gravel bikes, nor the Trek brand for that matter.
The best idea is to try and have a ride on both and decide on which feels best. Mind you, I've never thought that a quick test ride can really determine a bike's suitability, or lack of. A good hour or more test if possible might give a truer indication.

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Re: Which first road bike? Canyon endurace al7, reid vantage endurance 2 or specialised Allez elite

Postby cyclotaur » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:21 pm

TheDotProd wrote:...
The ALU version has no ISO speed vibration damping, and doesn't even come with a carbon seat post. TREK is relying on the fat tyres to absorb all the bumps.
.....
Thanks all for your advice once again :-)

Bigger tyres do much more to smooth/damp bumps and vibration than any nifty tech feature of frame design. If you have clearance on a nice road bike for 28c tyres on wide rims (most new bikes will have wider rims than in the recent past) you will be able to run lower tyre pressures and have a quite cushy ride over all road surfaces from smooth asphalt to light gravel. Hence the tendency for newer road bikes to have 25 or 28 tyres as standard issue, with clearances to suit.

Bike makers are taking a 'belts and braces' approach to comfort these days and present everything they offer as an extra feature priced in for extra $$. So we have 'extra' tyre clearance, 'extra' frame compliance (oohh, very expensive sophisticated individual carbon layup etc), 'extra' tech (iso-coupler/future shock/fancy seat post/etc etc) built in and the more boxes ticked the more $$ you pay.

I would go for the simplest, lightest road bike in your preferred material and spec, with the practical features you need (if any eg. fender mounts) and with the most versatile tyre clearance. I'd fit the largest tyres I could to the standard wheels that come with the bike, and get a better, lighter set of wheels and fit 25c road tyres on them. That way you only need to swap wheels for whichever ride you plan. If you're commuting or riding rougher roads - or even training for a big endurance ride - use the heavier wheels and larger tyres at lower pressures. When you want to go climbing, chasing a Strava PR, bunch riding or are actually doing a big ride then use the lighter wheels and tyres at slightly higher pressures.

Only go for the heftier 'gravel' bike option if you know you need the load carrying capacity or are regularly exploring rougher terrain. otherwise the extra kg or so will nag at you, even if it doesn't really make too much difference. :wink:
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Re: Which first road bike? Canyon endurace al7, reid vantage endurance 2 or specialised Allez elite

Postby TheDotProd » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:57 am

Thanks for the advice all.

In the end I picked up a Trek Checkpoint alr 5 for being able to run wide tyres for comfort and have mud guards.

I have some pretty major toe overlap going on with the fender but have about 1.5cm at the front of my shoes I could loose if I can find a better fitting spd shoe. More $$$ :-(

Failing that I might have to take the front fender off or get shorter cranks. Shorter cranks would let me raise the seat so I could fit a bike packing saddle bag so there is a silver lining there.

On the plus side first ride out I set a number of personal bests, gaining 3kmh on the flats. And that's not even using the top gears as my leg muscles aren't yet adjusted to the much higher gearing of the road bike vs my old mountain bike.

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Re: Which first road bike? Canyon endurace al7, reid vantage endurance 2 or specialised Allez elite

Postby Mububban » Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:43 pm

TheDotProd wrote:Okay narrowed it down to a choice of

TREK Domane alr 5 with Bupa discount or
Canyon endurace Al 7 disc


TREK Cons:
A little heavy at 9.4kg

Canyon pros:
Great weight at 8.6kg

How likely am I to regret the extra weight of the Trek, versus potential warranty & fit issues with the canyon?

How do the Bontrager wheels compare to the gt Swiss in the canyon?



My alloy Giant road bike (large) is 9.45kg without pedals, so the same as the Trek.
On the flat, you won't notice any difference. But I recently upgraded my wheels, they are "only" 600g lighter than the stock wheels but losing that weight from the rotating mass has made a HUGE difference to the feel of the bike when climbing. I'm talking night and day difference when climbing.
However I've not noticed a massive difference on the flats. They do accelerate easier

So if it's possible, choose the best wheels or you may find yourself spending extra to upgrade them later :)
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Re: Which first road bike? Canyon endurace al7, reid vantage endurance 2 or specialised Allez elite

Postby Thoglette » Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:08 pm

TheDotProd wrote:Failing that I might have to take the front fender off or get shorter cranks.


Or learn to live with it.
I have (some) overlap and get reminded of it perhaps once every two months when maneuvering at very slow speeds. See how you go.
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