potential N+1 situation... disc or no disc?

terryansimon
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potential N+1 situation... disc or no disc?

Postby terryansimon » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:19 pm

hello everybody!

I may be in a potential N+1 situation. I'm deliberating between two bikes that are more or less similar, except one has hydraulic discs and one doesn't. both have the same frame, both run Ultegra Di2 8050 series. only difference is the rims, the presence of disc brakes, and the cost (more expensive for the disc option). and oh, the disc option is out of stock but I found a shop in Perth that is willing to post it to me.

so, if you were in my situation, which would you go for and why?

just some background: I'm an unfit, fat, and lazy guy that is hoping to use the road bike to supplement my MTB riding (or lack off). my coach has said that the road bike will be a good way to get some base miles in my legs..... that's if I follow his training plans! I currently ride a 2009 Specialized Roubaix, which I love dearly... but I wouldn't mind some new bling!

the bikes in question are the Merida Scultura 7000 E and Merida Scultura 7000 E Disc.

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10speedsemiracer
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Re: potential N+1 situation... disc or no disc?

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:39 pm

Spending the amount you are, in terms of the Di2, I feel it would be only logical to go the full kit and get the discs (hope they're Shimano hyd).
Which bike are we talking about btw?
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Re: potential N+1 situation... disc or no disc?

Postby AUbicycles » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:54 pm

Very similar and it really is about disc or not. Discs are nicer and while riding generally require less thought and maintenance. That said, it is easier to maintain rim brakes yourself - bleeding and setup of disc brakes is a bit more work - but if you are MTBing, then it is fairly straight forward.

I like the reliability and feel of disc brakes. Rim brakes still give you enough power so you are not really losing out. But the price difference is important but if I wanted disc brakes, I would compare different brands of bikes.

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bychosis
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Re: potential N+1 situation... disc or no disc?

Postby bychosis » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:00 pm

If you are coming from MTB, you’ll appreciate the discs more than someone who hasn’t used them.
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Re: potential N+1 situation... disc or no disc?

Postby Neddysmith » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:15 am

If the price is right for disks i would be going with them, i dont find anything particulary wrong or bad with rim brakes but having disks on my MTB you will appreciate the stopping power of them.

Calvin27
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Re: potential N+1 situation... disc or no disc?

Postby Calvin27 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:54 am

Disc for sure.
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MichaelB
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Re: potential N+1 situation... disc or no disc?

Postby MichaelB » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:21 am

Calvin27 wrote:Disc for sure.


+1 to that.

Although many will say it's a personal choice (and it is), rim brakes work pretty well if maintained properly.

If you want to do wet weather riding and add some hills into it, discs are a better option, even with a minor cost penalty.

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Re: potential N+1 situation... disc or no disc?

Postby Mububban » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:15 pm

As above - rainy riding or hill descents? Discs.
Fair weather flat riding? You could save the money and go for rim brakes and use the saved money on anything you may need or want eg lights, pedals etc for the new bike.

Only a 400 gram weight penalty for the disc bike. Personally I'd go discs especially as you're used to them with MTB.
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Re: potential N+1 situation... disc or no disc?

Postby RonK » Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:10 pm

Disc brakes are nice to have but far from essential.

terryansimon wrote:just some background: I'm an unfit, fat, and lazy guy that is hoping to use the road bike to supplement my MTB riding (or lack off). my coach has said that the road bike will be a good way to get some base miles in my legs..... that's if I follow his training plans!

Are you really going to be motivated to ride it then? No point spending any money if it's going to be just another dust collector.
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Re: potential N+1 situation... disc or no disc?

Postby bychosis » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:03 pm

RonK wrote:
terryansimon wrote:just some background: I'm an unfit, fat, and lazy guy that is hoping to use the road bike to supplement my MTB riding (or lack off). my coach has said that the road bike will be a good way to get some base miles in my legs..... that's if I follow his training plans!

Are you really going to be motivated to ride it then? No point spending any money if it's going to be just another dust collector.

That is a very good point. It is entirely possibly to 'get base miles in my legs' on a MTB. For the same effort you just don't go as far or fast but can easily ride for the same time and effort as on a road bike.

There is something to be said for new and shiny inspiring action though
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Re: potential N+1 situation... disc or no disc?

Postby RonK » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:39 pm

bychosis wrote:
RonK wrote:
terryansimon wrote:just some background: I'm an unfit, fat, and lazy guy that is hoping to use the road bike to supplement my MTB riding (or lack off). my coach has said that the road bike will be a good way to get some base miles in my legs..... that's if I follow his training plans!

Are you really going to be motivated to ride it then? No point spending any money if it's going to be just another dust collector.

That is a very good point. It is entirely possibly to 'get base miles in my legs' on a MTB. For the same effort you just don't go as far or fast but can easily ride for the same time and effort as on a road bike.

There is something to be said for new and shiny inspiring action though

On the other hand...he might turn into (gasp!) a roadie... :shock:
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Re: potential N+1 situation... disc or no disc?

Postby Jmuzz » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:44 pm

If you can afford the luxury of Di2 then you might as well go all out and top it off with disc.

Neither is a necessity.

The money would be better spent on good winter and wet kit and headlights so you aren't demotivated during the colder darker months. Plus statistics toys like powermeter. Tubeless good too, punctures make me rage quit.
Of course you can have it all if you have the budget.

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Re: potential N+1 situation... disc or no disc?

Postby terryansimon » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:21 pm

RonK wrote:Are you really going to be motivated to ride it then? No point spending any money if it's going to be just another dust collector.

yeah I will be riding the bike a fair bit. I think I will be! in all honesty, I will probably have to as I am aiming to do a few multi-stage MTB events that will require a modicum of bike fitness to ensure I don't feel like death incarnate at the end of every stage. that, and Amy's Gran Fondo wouldn't be kind to me if I don't attempt some sort of training for it!

RonK wrote:On the other hand...he might turn into (gasp!) a roadie... :shock:

I started riding MTB as a teenager, then switched to road riding for about 5 to 8 years. only got back to MTB in a really big way when I was living in Alice Springs for a large chunk of last year. however, I never did shave my legs though. so does that make me a faux-roadie?

bychosis wrote:It is entirely possibly to 'get base miles in my legs' on a MTB. For the same effort you just don't go as far or fast but can easily ride for the same time and effort as on a road bike.

true. the road bike will really be a supplement to my training regime anyway. I find that mixing things up keeps it fresh for me. plus owing to my work schedule, it sometimes is easier to just grab the road bike to go for a ride after work, as opposed to taking the MTB to the trails about a 15 minute drive away (make it 30 to 45 at peak hour traffic aka when I want to get there!) plus, much quicker to wash off road grit than the thick mud and slop that invariably attaches to every nook and cranny of my bike!

bychosis wrote:There is something to be said for new and shiny inspiring action though

I'm also not going to lie. I just want something new.

Jmuzz wrote:If you can afford the luxury of Di2 then you might as well go all out and top it off with disc.

The money would be better spent on good winter and wet kit and headlights so you aren't demotivated during the colder darker months. Plus statistics toys like powermeter. Tubeless good too, punctures make me rage quit.
Of course you can have it all if you have the budget.

the cost difference between the non-disc Di2 and disc Di2 is pretty significant, depending on the shop that I speak to. I'm partial to a certain shop due to personal reasons. unfortunately, they aren't able to get the disc variant in for me as it is out of stock at a distributor level.

I did think of putting aside the cost difference into getting new stuff, maybe a different set of wheels even. the good thing about being a road rider in my previous incarnation is that I have the bulk of the gear already. sure my riding gear may look a bit dated compared to the current Rapha/La Passione/MAAP collections, but hell my Gabba is still going to keep me nice and toasty! same goes for other equipment. powermeter... tempting but I'll pass for now! unless one falls off the back of a van. cough cough.

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Re: potential N+1 situation... disc or no disc?

Postby terryansimon » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:29 pm

by the way, thanks for the advice folks!

I seem to change my mind on an almost daily basis, but for now I think I'll just continue training on my old road bike and wait for the 2019 variants to come in. this allows me to:

a) put money aside for the bike
b) support the shop that I have a personal connection with

however, knowing me, ask me again in two days time. I may be waiting impatiently for a consignment number from the WA shop by then!

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Re: potential N+1 situation... disc or no disc?

Postby Calvin27 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:13 am

RonK wrote:Are you really going to be motivated to ride it then? No point spending any money if it's going to be just another dust collector.


Enough of that, how else do you suppose the rest of us get second hand bargains?!!? :D
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Re: potential N+1 situation... disc or no disc?

Postby RonK » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:23 pm

terryansimon wrote:
RonK wrote:Are you really going to be motivated to ride it then? No point spending any money if it's going to be just another dust collector.

yeah I will be riding the bike a fair bit. I think I will be! in all honesty, I will probably have to as I am aiming to do a few multi-stage MTB events that will require a modicum of bike fitness to ensure I don't feel like death incarnate at the end of every stage. that, and Amy's Gran Fondo wouldn't be kind to me if I don't attempt some sort of training for it!

hehe - well you still don't sound very convincing. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: potential N+1 situation... disc or no disc?

Postby Mububban » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:26 pm

Once the N+1 bug bites, it's very hard to shut it down :D

I upgraded the wheels on my roadie and it's so much better, I've actually been able to snooze the upgrade urge for a whole new bike.

You could buy some light wheels and stick some ~30mm tyres on them and swap them onto the MTB for a much faster ride (assuming it's a hard tail?), but as has been said, the appeal of a shiny new bike would be a really great motivator :)

Let us know what you end up going for!
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Re: potential N+1 situation... disc or no disc?

Postby terryansimon » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:03 pm

Calvin27 wrote:Enough of that, how else do you suppose the rest of us get second hand bargains?!!? :D

:lol: :D :lol:

RonK wrote:hehe - well you still don't sound very convincing. :lol: :lol: :lol:

tell me about it! amongst all the rides I have slated for myself, Amy's Gran Fondo seems the likeliest as I shouldn't have to take any time off work for it. okay, maybe for the day after the ride, because my body will be in a world of pain most probably!

Mububban wrote:Once the N+1 bug bites, it's very hard to shut it down :D

I upgraded the wheels on my roadie and it's so much better, I've actually been able to snooze the upgrade urge for a whole new bike.

You could buy some light wheels and stick some ~30mm tyres on them and swap them onto the MTB for a much faster ride (assuming it's a hard tail?), but as has been said, the appeal of a shiny new bike would be a really great motivator :)

Let us know what you end up going for!

tell me about N+1. how did you think I went from 1 x Giant 26" Anthem, selling it for 1 x Specialized Roubaix, then adding 1 x Giant 27.5" Trance and 1 x BMC 29" in a space of 9 years? I have also been told on good authority that I don't have a problem with it yet!

it did cross my mind to upgrade the wheels on my existing road bike, or even on my MTBs. I'm fortunate enough to own a full suspension and a hardtail. I don't need to upgrade the wheels on the hardtail anytime soon (DT Swiss XR 1501 wheelset which came with the bike) bloody good wheels there. I am tempted to do the upgrade the wheels on the full suspension though, and have been pricing out options for that. the road bike on the other hand, owing to the clearance on the frame as well as the 10 speed cassette I run, means I need to be wise about what I get. it's really a case of how much money do I want to put into something, only for me to change it entirely about 6 to 12 months down the line.

plus, new bling!

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Re: potential N+1 situation... disc or no disc?

Postby Calvin27 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:34 pm

terryansimon wrote:tell me about N+1. how did you think I went from 1 x Giant 26" Anthem, selling it for 1 x Specialized Roubaix, then adding 1 x Giant 27.5" Trance and 1 x BMC 29" in a space of 9 years? I have also been told on good authority that I don't have a problem with it yet!


I once tried to explain that I couldn't ride a particular mountain bike because it was dirty so I had to take the other one which was clean. Other half asked me if mountain biking involved dirt....

As a long time mountain biker, you have to go discs, can't go back to rim brakes.
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Re: potential N+1 situation... disc or no disc?

Postby terryansimon » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:54 pm

Calvin27 wrote:I once tried to explain that I couldn't ride a particular mountain bike because it was dirty so I had to take the other one which was clean. Other half asked me if mountain biking involved dirt....

As a long time mountain biker, you have to go discs, can't go back to rim brakes.

I know that feeling all too well! when I got back from Bike Buller, mate of mine cleaned and polished the bike up to better than showroom condition. it felt like it was a crime against the gods of biking to take that beautifully polished beast out for a ride. worse, it was a ride in the red dirt of Alice Springs!

as for the rim vs disc brakes, I had a quick 15km burn around my neighbourhood the other day. got to say, I can't really notice the difference between the two. but then again, the area was relatively flat. and I hate climbing, which means I don't get the rewards of descending hills. but as my coach correctly pointed out, there's some hills to climb in Amy's Gran Fondo, so I better get used to it sooner rather than later! :(

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Re: potential N+1 situation... disc or no disc?

Postby AUbicycles » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:52 am

terryansimon wrote:I seem to change my mind on an almost daily basis, but for now I think I'll just continue training on my old road bike and wait for the 2019 variants to come in. this allows me to:

a) put money aside for the bike
b) support the shop that I have a personal connection with


New stuff is shiny... but last season's gear can be cheaper. So when 2018 drags on and towards the end of the year the 2019 stuff comes in (how can it even be available before the new year has started?) then you can look out for good prices on stuff they need to clear. It can help if you are a bit odd... so if you are an XXS or an XXL sized rider... or love fluro yellow when everyone else loves sky blue. In other words, there can be better availability of less common sizes / stock.

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Re: potential N+1 situation... disc or no disc?

Postby terryansimon » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:26 pm

AUbicycles wrote:New stuff is shiny... but last season's gear can be cheaper. So when 2018 drags on and towards the end of the year the 2019 stuff comes in (how can it even be available before the new year has started?) then you can look out for good prices on stuff they need to clear. It can help if you are a bit odd... so if you are an XXS or an XXL sized rider... or love fluro yellow when everyone else loves sky blue. In other words, there can be better availability of less common sizes / stock.

yeap. all my bikes have been purchased one year after their release for that precise reason. unfortunately, if I want the disc version (which at this moment, I do), it's out of stock in my size at the Australian distributor level. the shop I have a personal connection with reckons it will come in in September 2018, and even then it will be for the 2019 variants. so I'll just play the patient waiting game for now. allows me to put money aside for the bike and any new bling I may like to go with it!

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