Advice needed on correct tube and rim size for tyres

Traceylee
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Advice needed on correct tube and rim size for tyres

Postby Traceylee » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:17 am

I need help please! I keep getting flats on my back tyre. I have a road bike which has Alexrims AT470 622x17. The tyres are Re-fuse Maxxis 700x23c. The tubes I am being given from bike shop are 700x18/25c. These are all from the bike shop and what they are giving me. I have come to the conclusion that it is because the rim tape is moving and exposing the spoke holes. When I match up the hole on the rim it is always a cut on the inside on the tube and it matches up perfectly with an exposed hole. Every time. I have taken to a couple of different bike shops in my area and the last guy told me that Its because I’m using a tyre lever to put my tyre back on. He is the expert not me but I question wether this is right as regardless of wether I use a tyre lever or not I am still getting a flat tyre on every single ride because the rim tape has moved. I got him to put new rim tape on and a new tube etc as I did a triathlon on the weekend. He didn’t use a lever and 18k into the 40k ride I got a flat. I took the tyre and tube off etc and the rim tape was all over the place. The front tyre has the same rim tape and have not had any flats. They bike guy told me that I can’t use anything wider than 13mm rim tape. Does anyone out there have any ideas or advice? Am I using the correct tubes for my rims? Or should I be using maybe 15mm rim tape? I would be forever grateful for any advice someone could give me. Thank you :)

uart
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Re: Advice needed on correct tube and rim size for tyres

Postby uart » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:34 pm

I need help please! I keep getting flats on my back tyre.

I have a road bike which has Alexrims AT470 622x17. The tyres are Re-fuse Maxxis 700x23c. The tubes I am being given from bike shop are 700x18/25c. These are all from the bike shop and what they are giving me.

I have come to the conclusion that it is because the rim tape is moving and exposing the spoke holes. When I match up the hole on the rim it is always a cut on the inside on the tube and it matches up perfectly with an exposed hole. Every time.

I have taken to a couple of different bike shops in my area and the last guy told me that it’s because I’m using a tyre lever to put my tyre back on. He is the expert not me but I question whether this is right as regardless of whether I use a tyre lever or not I am still getting a flat tyre on every single ride because the rim tape has moved. I got him to put new rim tape on and a new tube etc as I did a triathlon on the weekend. He didn’t use a lever and 18k into the 40k ride I got a flat. I took the tyre and tube off etc and the rim tape was all over the place.

The front tyre has the same rim tape and have not had any flats. They bike guy told me that I can’t use anything wider than 13mm rim tape. Does anyone out there have any ideas or advice? Am I using the correct tubes for my rims? Or should I be using maybe 15mm rim tape?

I would be forever grateful for any advice someone could give me. Thank you :)

uart
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Re: Advice needed on correct tube and rim size for tyres

Postby uart » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:45 pm

Hi Tracey. What brand rim tape are you currently using?

Also, can you confirm that all (or most) of your punctures are on the inside region of the tube and not on the sides (which is often a pinch puncture from the tyre bottoming out). I'm just wondering why it's always the back tyre, whereas you would expect the front to do much the same thing is the problem is purely due to the tape. Pinch punctures however are far more likely on the most heavily loaded wheel (the back).

As for the tape, I would recommend trying something like the Velox cloth tape as it is quite robust and stays in place very well. And yes, if 15 mm (or wider) tape will fit in there then do use that. The narrower the tape then the less it has to move before it exposes a hole! Be aware however that using wider or thicker rim tape can make mounting the tyre just a little more difficult, as there is less space for the tyre beads to move about in.

One last thing, try thoroughly cleaning the inner rim surface with a suitable cleaning fluid before installing the rim tape, as sometimes you can get traces of grease/lube there and that can help the tape slide around.

Traceylee
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Re: Advice needed on correct tube and rim size for tyres

Postby Traceylee » Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:20 pm

Thank you for your help. Yes I am using the velox cloth tape in 13mm. The bike guy has told me not to go any wider but there is a couple of mm spare so I was thinking going 15mm May help it to not slide around. I think the majority of the punctures are on the inside but I couldn’t be sure as I have only just started to check where they are after coming to the conclusion that it is the spoke holes. What do you mean by bottoming out? This may be something I should keep an eye out for. I’m putting in 100-110 psi in the tube which is what I was told to put in when I brought the bike. After i got the flat in the tri that I mentioned I ended up doing the rest of the ride (22km) with no trouble. I took the tyre off again when I got home just out of interest to see what the tape looked like and there was one spoke hole exposed. I’m guessing that when I pumped it up during the race after the flat I would have only had about 60-70psi in it and thought maybe this is why I didn’t get another flat, because it wasn’t pumped up to max so then I think am I putting too much psi in the tube?? I don’t know. I know riding on 60-70psi is not good however. I’m clutching at straws now. Thank you so much for your advice!!

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Re: Advice needed on correct tube and rim size for tyres

Postby uart » Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:04 pm

Traceylee wrote: What do you mean by bottoming out? This may be something I should keep an eye out for. I’m putting in 100-110 psi in the tube which is what I was told to put in when I brought the bike.

"Bottoming out" happens when you hit a bump or something and the tyre gets compressed all the way down to the edge of the rim. It "pinches" the side of the tube against the rim and causes "snake bite" punctures (so called because they often occur as a closely spaced pair of holes) on the side region of the tube. This is predominately a problem with under-inflated tyres, so if you're running 100 to 110 then it's probably not your issue.

After i got the flat in the tri that I mentioned I ended up doing the rest of the ride (22km) with no trouble. I took the tyre off again when I got home just out of interest to see what the tape looked like and there was one spoke hole exposed. I’m guessing that when I pumped it up during the race after the flat I would have only had about 60-70psi in it and thought maybe this is why I didn’t get another flat, because it wasn’t pumped up to max so then I think am I putting too much psi in the tube?? I don’t know. I know riding on 60-70psi is not good however.


If you're getting exposed spoke holes then you will get punctures. So you have to get the rims taped properly or it's just going to continue to happen. Yes at lower pressure it will happened less frequently, but you should be able to run at 100 psi without any issues.

Your rims measure 17mm interior width, so I don't know why your bike guy is so adamant on using 13mm tape. Go for the next size of Velox which is 16 mm and see how it goes. Also make sure you clean the surface before re-applying the tape in case there is any lube residue there causing it the slide around. (BTW. This once happened to me after I had lubed all the spoke nipples while truing one of my wheels. Some of the lube got under the plastic rim tape and it started sliding all around the place like you describe. It punctured out with the tube going down one of the holes on the first ride. Cleaned it up and applied new tape and never a problem since).

As I said, you may find the tyres a bit harder to fit with the wider tape, so be prepared for that. But flats are not fun.

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Ivanerrol
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Re: Advice needed on correct tube and rim size for tyres

Postby Ivanerrol » Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:18 pm

From Sheldon Brown's site

If you use a very narrow tire on a wide rim, you risk pinch flats and rim damage from road hazards.


According to the wheel vs tyre size table on his site, 622x17 wheels should use minimum 25mm tyres.

Check his thread : http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html
Scroll down until you see the table.

What bike do you have? Hybrid roadie?
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biker jk
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Re: Advice needed on correct tube and rim size for tyres

Postby biker jk » Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:42 pm

One reason that the rim tape exposing the spoke holes is only occurring on the rear wheel is if the rim is asymmetric so that the spoke holes are closer to the edge of the rim bed (versus the front rim). I would use a 17mm or 18mm rim tape for a 17C rim.

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MattyK
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Re: Advice needed on correct tube and rim size for tyres

Postby MattyK » Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:18 pm

I don't see a problem with your rim/tyre combo.

I had the same issue on my cheap Alex rims. You could see the rim tape was being worn through at the spoke holes. Fitted some new (Schwalbe?) rim strips (the plastic type) and not more problems, even with lightweight and latex tubes.

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Duck!
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Re: Advice needed on correct tube and rim size for tyres

Postby Duck! » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:44 pm

uart wrote:If you're getting exposed spoke holes then you will get punctures. So you have to get the rims taped properly or it's just going to continue to happen. Yes at lower pressure it will happened less frequently...

Quite the contrary, at low pressures it's more likely because the tyre is more able to squirm around in the rim, pushing the tape around with it.

As suggested elsewhere above, 23mm tyres are probably a bit marrow for the rims, so even at proper pressure they're moving around in the rim, moving the tape and exposing the holes. The rear wheel is always the more heavily loaded one, so that's why it's only occurring in that wheel. A wider tape that fully extends to both sidewalls will help, but going to 25mm or even 28mm tyres will be better in the long run.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

uart
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Re: Advice needed on correct tube and rim size for tyres

Postby uart » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:48 pm

Duck! wrote:
uart wrote:If you're getting exposed spoke holes then you will get punctures. So you have to get the rims taped properly or it's just going to continue to happen. Yes at lower pressure it will happened less frequently...

Quite the contrary, at low pressures it's more likely because the tyre is more able to squirm around in the rim, pushing the tape around with it.

In my opinion the tape is most likely moving during the tyre fitment process. Higher pressure will squeeze the tube through a smaller gap, allowing the tube to "herniate" into the spoke hole more readily. The OPs own observations confirm that the problem was less apparent at lower tyre pressure. My own observations with ill fitting rim tape also coincides with that of the OP. The problem is noticeably more apparent at higher pressures.

Agree that the 23c tyre is a bit narrow for a 17mm rim. however totally disagree that it will make the tyre squirm around more. The main impact of the small tyre size (in comparison to the rim) is just the the tyre will sit with lesser height (depth) which could increase the chance of bottoming out as I mentioned before.

eeksll
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Re: Advice needed on correct tube and rim size for tyres

Postby eeksll » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:23 pm

Duck! wrote:Quite the contrary, at low pressures it's more likely because the tyre is more able to squirm around in the rim, pushing the tape around with it.


that would explain my rim tape moving about, it snakes around, I applied it, I certainly did not apply it that way. I run a 1.6inch tyre and will run a max of 60 psi, but it often goes quite a fair bit lower than that.

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Re: Advice needed on correct tube and rim size for tyres

Postby find_bruce » Tue May 01, 2018 5:54 pm

Traceylee wrote:Thank you for your help. Yes I am using the velox cloth tape in 13mm. The bike guy has told me not to go any wider but there is a couple of mm spare so I was thinking going 15mm May help it to not slide around.
Another option is to ditch the rim tape all together and use veloplugs - fills the spoke holes, nothing to move around

Traceylee
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Re: Advice needed on correct tube and rim size for tyres

Postby Traceylee » Wed May 02, 2018 2:45 pm

Thank you so much everyone for your advice. I will definitely taking it all on board and hopefully I can sort this out. Thanks again!!

slidetaker
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Re: Advice needed on correct tube and rim size for tyres

Postby slidetaker » Fri May 04, 2018 1:27 pm

I also agree on running wider rim tape. As long as it stays clear of the rim hook, I cannot see why the tape cannot encroach on rim wall areas. It will not harm the tube.

I also recommend running 25mm tyre and then use the next size up tube, which some brands do like 700c 25mm-32mm. My limited thinking is that with this combo, the tube does not has to expand as much. Making it a little bit thicker to resist those very small shape objects inside the wheels (marginally exposed spoke ends, tired rim tape exposed spoke hole, etc) while riding.

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