GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Jmuzz
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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby Jmuzz » Mon May 28, 2018 5:24 pm

V17L wrote:I dont quite follow why Gerry has pushed this so much. I dont get my couch from oversea, nor bedding or funiture, or even an electric jug. Maybe his computer section, but even then i would guess the overseas imports would be chicken fed compared to his turnover..


The company's roots and success have been in the electronics market more than furniture and appliances.
Domayne and Joyce Mayne are also part of the group, and he bought up Retravision which died and tried his Big Buys thing trying to sell Amazon style range of small items which still flopped despite trying to dodge GST with offshore front.
He wanted to monopolize the market and hates the internet for ruining that even though JB and GoodGuys did more damage to his market share.

Also failed at some stationary supplies which he probably blames on eBay and Amazon rather than Officeworks being unbeatable.

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Ross
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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby Ross » Mon May 28, 2018 8:15 pm

10speedsemiracer wrote:With Gerry, it was Kogan that did the trick for him.
Gerry was losing $s on the Harvey Norman-specific models he bullied out of suppliers, specifically electronics and computing (so you couldn't price match). And trust me, he bullied them, saying he wouldn't stock their stuff unless they provided him with models/variants specific to his stores. In reality they were just rebadged lines, but the sales staff could hide behind different model names/numbers.


Quite a few shops do this model specific thing now so they don't have to price match.


10speedsemiracer wrote:The man is an idiot and has caused more damage to the marketplace than we know.


Not really. A pretty successful businessman. He owns millions of $ of assetts, dare say he would have a fairly decent wad of cash in the bank as well.

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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Mon May 28, 2018 9:02 pm

Ross wrote:
10speedsemiracer wrote:With Gerry, it was Kogan that did the trick for him.
Gerry was losing $s on the Harvey Norman-specific models he bullied out of suppliers, specifically electronics and computing (so you couldn't price match). And trust me, he bullied them, saying he wouldn't stock their stuff unless they provided him with models/variants specific to his stores. In reality they were just rebadged lines, but the sales staff could hide behind different model names/numbers.


Quite a few shops do this model specific thing now so they don't have to price match.


10speedsemiracer wrote:The man is an idiot and has caused more damage to the marketplace than we know.


Not really. A pretty successful businessman. He owns millions of $ of assetts, dare say he would have a fairly decent wad of cash in the bank as well.


Granted, all of the above is true. My issue was with his apparent bi-polar ethical behavior (or lack thereof) and underhanded sales/pricing tactics. I know he's not the only one doing it, but he was the most vocal of all when it came to the online vs bricks/mortar. Almost ironic, even more so when you consider the below (even just the exclusions are hilarious) in light of HN often stocking lines that can't be found anywhere else (and the sales staff KNOW this and are trained up to utilize the fact).

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https://www.harveynorman.com.au/price-match-guarantee
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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby AUbicycles » Tue May 29, 2018 2:54 am

Thoglette wrote:
AUbicycles wrote:Relying on commercial third parties to collect and manage tax... no thanks.

We do that already for GST. The ATO takes the GST that I (a third party) collect. Same as PAYG and super, it's up to me to do it.

Certainly, it's open to fraud and abuse. Just like super and payroll tax (anyone been washing dishes in Melbourne lately?).

I don't outsource my payroll and super but plenty of companies do. Not all of them bother.


But you are specifically involved in the transaction so are not a 3rd party. It is a difference between putting the onus on those in the transaction and requiring the handling and collection from a comnercial third party.

As a business you also adjust your books for collected and paid GST plus fall under the tax jurisdiction which puts local business in a different legal position.

I an interested to see how it goes with compliance and whether it actually influences consumer behaviour.


Speaking of Gerry, didn’t he move his online thing offshore?

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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Tue May 29, 2018 3:10 am

AUbicycles wrote:.....

Speaking of Gerry, didn’t he move his online thing offshore?


Yes he did...
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Ross
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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby Ross » Thu May 31, 2018 1:06 pm

So Amazon.com have announced they will no longer ship to Australia after July 1

https://www.news.com.au/finance/busines ... 046f63b894

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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby Neddysmith » Thu May 31, 2018 1:20 pm

Ross wrote:So Amazon.com have announced they will no longer ship to Australia after July 1

https://www.news.com.au/finance/busines ... 046f63b894


Was just reading this, and i think this will be the first of many that will just shut down shipping to Aus and place in the "too hard" basket. As i said before a lot of these smaller forward shippers (such as Price USA) i think will be licking their lips at their chance of some more business.

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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby RobertL » Thu May 31, 2018 2:30 pm

Ross wrote:So Amazon.com have announced they will no longer ship to Australia after July 1

https://www.news.com.au/finance/busines ... 046f63b894


Not quite. Amazon will direct you to their .com.au store, rather than their .com store, and make you buy from it and pay the GST.
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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby queequeg » Thu May 31, 2018 2:36 pm

Neddysmith wrote:
Ross wrote:So Amazon.com have announced they will no longer ship to Australia after July 1

https://www.news.com.au/finance/busines ... 046f63b894


Was just reading this, and i think this will be the first of many that will just shut down shipping to Aus and place in the "too hard" basket. As i said before a lot of these smaller forward shippers (such as Price USA) i think will be licking their lips at their chance of some more business.


Don't use ShopMate, as they will be collecting the GST on any parcels you forward from the USA using their service. That is, don't use them unless you don't mind paying the GST.
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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby Cheesewheel » Thu May 31, 2018 3:01 pm

RobertL wrote:
Ross wrote:So Amazon.com have announced they will no longer ship to Australia after July 1

https://www.news.com.au/finance/busines ... 046f63b894


Not quite. Amazon will direct you to their .com.au store, rather than their .com store, and make you buy from it and pay the GST.


The australian amazon sells about 60 million products. The international version about 500 million.
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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby Jmuzz » Thu May 31, 2018 4:57 pm

Cheesewheel wrote:The australian amazon sells about 60 million products. The international version about 500 million.


They say they are adding a new "Global Store" which will include a lot/all international shipper items.

So if it is done like that then everything available to ship to Australia (without using forwarders) will be available on the .au site. Just the .au site will add GST to all prices.

So Amazon Au should actually improve its range and pricing if that happens.

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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby Cheesewheel » Thu May 31, 2018 5:37 pm

Jmuzz wrote:
Cheesewheel wrote:The australian amazon sells about 60 million products. The international version about 500 million.


They say they are adding a new "Global Store" which will include a lot/all international shipper items.

So if it is done like that then everything available to ship to Australia (without using forwarders) will be available on the .au site. Just the .au site will add GST to all prices.

So Amazon Au should actually improve its range and pricing if that happens.

I read thst they were adding 4 million extra

Australian shoppers will still be able to access 60 million products available on Amazon.com.au, including many from international third-party sellers. The company has launched a "global store", opening up access to another 4 million items previously available only on its American website.


https://amp.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 4zikr.html
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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby Howzat » Thu May 31, 2018 6:27 pm

Australian shoppers can also access non-Amazon retailers.

For the moment.

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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby MichaelB » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:27 am

The loss of the Yankee Amazon isn't a loss to me. The Aussie version is even less of an issue, as the pricing isn't there and neither are the products.

At the end of the day, even with the GST added to OS suppliers, they are still 30-40% cheaper than local.

Meh, nothing changes for me.

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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby mikesbytes » Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:36 am

Yesterday I brought two 700c*19/25 48mm tubes at Decathelon for $5 ie $2.50 each. When prices are that competitive in a retail business then who needs mail order!

If there was no GST that would imply a price around $4.50 but somehow I think the retailer would of made it $5 anyway
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby BJL » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:07 pm

MichaelB wrote:The loss of the Yankee Amazon isn't a loss to me. The Aussie version is even less of an issue, as the pricing isn't there and neither are the products.

At the end of the day, even with the GST added to OS suppliers, they are still 30-40% cheaper than local.

Meh, nothing changes for me.


Same here. The bit I made bold is often conveniently forgotten when retailers were arguing for this. An example (from the Melbourne Herald Sun a while ago) had one of the opinion columnist's use the example of a $60 box of socks (or ties) online would cost $66 at Myers and how it was so unfair. Except that a $60 box of socks from an online retailer isn't going to cost $66 at Myers. It'll probably be closer to $100 at Myers.

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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby Jmuzz » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:21 pm

mikesbytes wrote:Yesterday I brought two 700c*19/25 48mm tubes at Decathelon for $5 ie $2.50 each. When prices are that competitive in a retail business then who needs mail order!


I think there will be a resurgence in pickup retail over time.
The issue with online is postage cost and delivery time.

A direct to public pickup warehouse can still be a very lean operation and compete with online in city areas.

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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby MichaelB » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:29 pm

Jmuzz wrote: I think there will be a resurgence in pickup retail over time.
The issue with online is postage cost and delivery time.

A direct to public pickup warehouse can still be a very lean operation and compete with online in city areas.


There may well be.

But more often than not, if I order something within country (Pushys, Bikebug etc) only a few of them will beat the OS company to my door in delivery. They have the same free ship threshold, most of the same stuff and their prices are usually a bit higher.

When I shop, price (incl shipping) is usually the 1st priority (if in stock), and then how fast I need it.

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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby Jawa » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:44 pm

MichaelB wrote:The loss of the Yankee Amazon isn't a loss to me. The Aussie version is even less of an issue, as the pricing isn't there and neither are the products.


I agree so much in that everyone seems up in arms about Amazon .. but really, were they really that big for Australian consumers

Just from my experience from browsing the US website, most things I took an interest in wouldn’t ship to Australia before all this hullabaloo

Reading things objectively also, everyone seems focused on directing their rage at the libs but Amazon have had two years to sort things out on their end to only pull the pin on Aussie shoppers on the stroke of midnight

When it comes to new bike parts for me it’s a balancing act between price and convenience. So much as im willing to pay a bit more if the transaction is stress free and I know it will arrive within a reasonable time. Hence I go with wiggle most of the time. But I’ve had equally enjoyable experiences online with Pushys and BikeBug

What im looking forward to though is this new Ebay Plus service. Unlimited purchases for a yearly fee I think will really set the cat amongst the pigeons as you won’t be subjected to minimum spends to get free postage.

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Ross
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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby Ross » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:22 pm

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/busine ... 4ziol.html

Amazon spends nearly three times as much as the entire Australian government on research and development. Yet collecting GST from offshore merchants selling products into Australia has proved too complex even for it.

That's one way to view the announcement by the e-commerce behemoth on Thursday that it would limit the ability of local consumers to buy products through its US website - a decision that will significantly reduce the number of products available to Australian Amazon users.

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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby DavidS » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:47 pm

My main issue with losing Amazon is it is hard to get some books and records here, and it often takes ages for things to come when ordered. I suppose I'll just have to find alternatives.

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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby mikesbytes » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:10 pm

Can the Amazon thing be got around by using a forwarding postal service?
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby find_bruce » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:16 pm

mikesbytes wrote:Can the Amazon thing be got around by using a forwarding postal service?
you also need a VPN to access the site in the first place

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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby mikesbytes » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:25 pm

find_bruce wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:Can the Amazon thing be got around by using a forwarding postal service?
you also need a VPN to access the site in the first place
Easy enough

They could also tell the country of the credit card but it begs the question as to whether they care or not, if the product isn't posted to Australia then Aussie GST is not an issue
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: GST free threshold removal effect on shoppers and overseas bike shops

Postby queequeg » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:07 pm

mikesbytes wrote:Can the Amazon thing be got around by using a forwarding postal service?


Yes, but not ShopMate, which is Australia Post's forwarding postal service from the USA. They will charge you GST before forwarding your parcels as of July 1st. That is also after you manage to get around the Geo-Blocking with a VPN.
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