Help deciding between 2 road bikes

mitteh
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Help deciding between 2 road bikes

Postby mitteh » Tue May 29, 2018 7:04 am

Hey guys,

Fairly new to cycling community although I've ridden bikes my whole life (23 yo). The last 2 years I've been commuting to work in Sydney around 10km each way with a couple short climbs. I owned a Reid Harrier 3-Speed and then upgraded to a Polygon Path i8 but it got stolen so I'm looking to upgrade. I have also ridden my 3 speed to Wollongong once and surprisingly enjoyed the ride, even though some hills through the royal national park killed me.
I am moving so my commute will involve lots of hills, the biggest of which is nearly 3km and an average incline of 5% (which to me doesn't sound like much but its steep and never ending when I drive up it lol). I am really set on moving towards a road bike from a commuter style bike. Something that can tackle hills, and something that I can explore cycling a bit more - I already plan to ride to Palm Beach once I get my riding fitness back up a bit. Now I know some people say I should get a road bike for commuting but I'll be doing a lot of riding, hills and through all my research and shopping around, I am getting very excited about cycling and getting into it a bit more.

So I've been to my LBS a few times and they've been very helpful. I didn't really know what my budget was but it definitely is more than I would have liked a few weeks ago lol (1500). I dont think I want to spend more than $4000 and that includes pedals, shoes, helmet, lights, tubes, cylinders, nozzle, water bottle cage, bike fit. The works.

I think I've narrowed it down to two bikes, of which are both really good deals as far as I can tell, but then again I'm still new so I'd appreciate any advice, input, thoughts etc.

Cervelo R3 Ultegra 2016 - $3600 (from 4800 - I feel I could get it down to 3.2k as I have seen online other bike shops selling for 3-3.2k)

Focus Cayo Di2 Ultregra 2017 - $3750 (from 4500)

I've test ridden both and enjoy both. I like the look of the Cayo but I LOVE the look of the R3. I felt the R3 was a bit more responsive but idk. I think I really have my heart set on Di2, but I really have my heart set on the paint job of the cervelo haha. I am really torn between the two bikes.

The LBS has said they can work out a good price with all the other gear so with either choice I wouldnt be going over budget much (4k for r3). The cervelo is significantly cheaper but I might always regret not having got di2?

Are these good deals? Could or should I ask for cheaper? Anything else to look out for?

Will both bikes, if looked after, hold their value?

Should I see if they'll put the di2 on the cervelo (lol might get laughed out of the store)

They said both bikes should handle 28 tyres. Should I see if theyll put them on for free? I read it might be more comfortable and a negligible difference to speed as im not racing (except for against myself).

4k is a lot of money, I can afford it but I'm a little bit of a stinge. but I am excited about it. I just hate when people say "4 grand thats !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !! dumb my bike cost me 1 grand!! whats your bike do???"


Anyway thanks in advance!! :D

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ValleyForge
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Re: Help deciding between 2 road bikes

Postby ValleyForge » Tue May 29, 2018 9:06 am

Welcome. I've never heard anyone admit "I spent more than I should".

Keeping it short:

Essentially no bike will keep its value. Buy the best frame & forks you can afford, as groupsets & wheels are easier to upgrade than visa-versa.

I'd leave the tyres as they are and reconsider when they have worn out.

I have been really impressed with Focus as a brand FWIW. Both my kids have Focus MTBs and the finish/value/package is exceptional.
Ha ha ha! Cookies on dowels.

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Derny Driver
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Re: Help deciding between 2 road bikes

Postby Derny Driver » Tue May 29, 2018 9:18 am

Don't buy a the Cervelo, a guy at my club is on to his 5th warranty replacement. I know of 3 other people who are unhappy with theirs as well.
Put simply, they break.

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Duck!
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Re: Help deciding between 2 road bikes

Postby Duck! » Tue May 29, 2018 11:25 am

The proprietary bottom bracket system is another point against the Cervelo.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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P!N20
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Re: Help deciding between 2 road bikes

Postby P!N20 » Tue May 29, 2018 11:46 am

The only Cervelo to own is the Prodigy.

Get the Focus.

CKinnard
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Re: Help deciding between 2 road bikes

Postby CKinnard » Tue May 29, 2018 12:05 pm

Keep in mind the road surfaces you are riding regularly. If they are not in great condition, you would be better on a wider tire at lower pressure. This will also be safer when roads are wet, and at night when you cannot see obstacles earlier.

And if you are going to consider a wider tire, >=32mm, then that will be a consideration on the frame, forks, and brakes you get.

If you want to do a lot of long distance or back road riding, wider tires at lower psi are one of the best things you can do to stay more comfortable = more shock absorption by the tires.
Wider tires are heavier but they are generally much more puncture resistant, which is a very big bonus when commuting.

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cjrich
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Re: Help deciding between 2 road bikes

Postby cjrich » Tue May 29, 2018 3:22 pm

Cant' comment on the Focus but I absolutely love my 2015 R3. Climbs like a dream. Only thing I don't like about it is the lack of wheel clearance on the front fork to fit 25mm+ tires, but I think the later models have solved that. I'd definitely buy another R3 at the right price, but with disks.

BTW, I believe Focus owns Cervelo, or did when I got mine.
CJ
- 2015 Cervelo R3
- 2014 Avanti Blade 3
- 2013 Cannondale CAAD 8

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Thoglette
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Re: Help deciding between 2 road bikes

Postby Thoglette » Tue May 29, 2018 4:05 pm

mitteh wrote:Something that can tackle hills, and something that I can explore cycling a bit more - I already plan to ride to Palm Beach once I get my riding fitness back up a bit. Now I know some people say I should get a road bike for commuting but I'll be doing a lot of riding, hills and through all my research and shopping around, I am getting very excited about cycling and getting into it a bit more.


For what you're describing 28mm is a good start. But 32mm is even better. If you are commuting in all weathers, then the ability to fit mudguards (and a rack) should also be on your shopping list.

There's been a few threads on this sort of thing (e.g. General mid-distance bike) recently.

There's more out there than was the case a few years back, when you could either buy a skinny-tyred-road-bike or a touring-truck or, maybe, a CX bike. But nothing in between. These days there's a whole pile of stuff blurring the lines: "all road", "gravel grinder", "adventure", "randonneur" or "comfort performance" with both modern (Specialised Roubaix or Scott Addict) and traditional looks (e.g. Malvern Star Oppy S3 or Soma Pescadero or Masi Speciale Randonneur). And that's just a start.

Given your middle-of-the-road budget and hilly ride I'll be interested to see what you can find.

As sub $2500 there is not a whole lot under 10kg, which is insane in this day and age.
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Thoglette
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Re: Help deciding between 2 road bikes

Postby Thoglette » Tue May 29, 2018 4:38 pm

And just to through you completely out and into left field, given your budget you should be having a look at the Australian makers (see the AHBS photos) such as Curve
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10speedsemiracer
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Re: Help deciding between 2 road bikes

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Tue May 29, 2018 5:22 pm

Just a point to remember is that discs/Di2 all add weight to a bike, the natural enemy of hill climbing. Not saying you shouldn't, just saying that this should factor into your thinking.

A Giant TCR Advanced Pro 1 might be perfect :

Image

Has Ultegra 11sp mechanical, 11-30t cassette, 52/36 mid compact and 25mm tyres.

Falls within budget, and with a bit of shopping around should be able to beat list price.

Just an example.
Mmm, SunTour

eeksll
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Re: Help deciding between 2 road bikes

Postby eeksll » Tue May 29, 2018 9:47 pm

do you commute in the rain? That wears chains real quick, how are you with current chain maintenance?
do you have good secure place to lock it up ?

personal pov that is alot of cash for a commute bike (but then again I don't own a bike that cost that much)

CKinnard
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Re: Help deciding between 2 road bikes

Postby CKinnard » Tue May 29, 2018 11:10 pm

another consideration..... a dedicated road bike has a shorter head tube, and lower bars, which is not ideal for commuting in heavier traffic (when it is advantageous to sit up higher and see further down the road).

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Howzat
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Re: Help deciding between 2 road bikes

Postby Howzat » Wed May 30, 2018 12:21 am

Note the Focus Cayo from 2018 is called the "Izalco Race". So stores will be motivated to clear the model with the old label. It's the exact same bike, so there may be a bargain to be had. I have one, great bike, it gets you down lower than "endurance" bikes as the head tube is shorter.

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Duck!
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Re: Help deciding between 2 road bikes

Postby Duck! » Wed May 30, 2018 10:03 am

CKinnard wrote:another consideration..... a dedicated road bike has a shorter head tube, and lower bars, which is not ideal for commuting in heavier traffic (when it is advantageous to sit up higher and see further down the road).

The difference is a matter of millimetres; the effect on your line of sight and visibility to others is virtually non-existent.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

CKinnard
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Re: Help deciding between 2 road bikes

Postby CKinnard » Wed May 30, 2018 2:28 pm

Duck! wrote:
CKinnard wrote:another consideration..... a dedicated road bike has a shorter head tube, and lower bars, which is not ideal for commuting in heavier traffic (when it is advantageous to sit up higher and see further down the road).

The difference is a matter of millimetres; the effect on your line of sight and visibility to others is virtually non-existent.


'a matter of millimetres' diff? really?!

Head Tube lengths:
Giant AnyRoad medium frame - 185mm
Giant Defy Advanced Pro medium frame - 165mm
Giant TCR SL medium frame - 148mm

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bychosis
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Re: Help deciding between 2 road bikes

Postby bychosis » Wed May 30, 2018 2:41 pm

Yup, that's millimetres.... 37 of them, which isn't that much in the overall height of the rider. Maybe 2%?

Edit: Pick your favourite colour!
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Duck!
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Re: Help deciding between 2 road bikes

Postby Duck! » Wed May 30, 2018 3:07 pm

bychosis wrote:Yup, that's millimetres.... 37 of them, which isn't that much in the overall height of the rider. Maybe 2%?

Precisely my point. :-)
My commuter is a roadie. There is no appreciable difference in my ability to see or be seen between riding in the drops or on the tops, and that's considerably more than 37mm difference.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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number21
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Re: Help deciding between 2 road bikes

Postby number21 » Wed May 30, 2018 4:54 pm

The most effective bike for you is one that gets ridden. So go for the one you're going to love getting on. And otherwise you'll be thinking of upgrading in no time, which sucks if you're on a budget.

Focus/Cervelo. Far as I know they're both from the same company as cjrich mentioned. Have come across many satisfied owners on each brand and the only common complaint is that of the cervelo BB and aero seatpost. Both can be managed so just make sure your LBS is across them so they should be able to sort them before any issues occur.
My theory is that no one brand is perfect if you look hard enough. Didn't Izalcos come out with forks that had the potential to spontaneously snap a few years ago?

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nickobec
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Re: Help deciding between 2 road bikes

Postby nickobec » Wed May 30, 2018 5:10 pm

The correct answer is whatever bike will get you out of bed and riding.

There are a lot of valid opinions from other members about what works for them, but what will work for you?

Couple of thoughts

3km climb at 5%, assume that means 3km descent at 5% on the way home, good argument as any for disk brakes, once you throw in rain and traffic.

Mudguards, I have them on the bike I ride in street clothes to the train, but if I commute to work and that can be anywhere between 40 and 120km with one or two bunch rides thrown in, it is on a race orientated bike and if it is going to rain I dress appropriately shoes covers, wet weather bibs and jersey/jacket which you would need even with guards and throw on an ass saver.

Just pick the bike the brings the biggest smile to your face.

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10speedsemiracer
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Re: Help deciding between 2 road bikes

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Wed May 30, 2018 5:44 pm

Coming from a non-road bike scenario, I think it would be worthwhile to test ride say a Giant Tcr or Defy, then a Focus Cayo, maybe a Specialized whatever (you could be sneaky and try out a Kona Roadhouse as well, just for comparison) and see if a roadie works for you...
Mmm, SunTour

CKinnard
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Re: Help deciding between 2 road bikes

Postby CKinnard » Wed May 30, 2018 10:23 pm

Duck! wrote:
bychosis wrote:Yup, that's millimetres.... 37 of them, which isn't that much in the overall height of the rider. Maybe 2%?

Precisely my point. :-)
My commuter is a roadie. There is no appreciable difference in my ability to see or be seen between riding in the drops or on the tops, and that's considerably more than 37mm difference.


How tall are you Duck?
37mm is a big diff for a lot of people - shorter people who need all the height gain they can muster to see several cars ahead, many who cannot stay in the drops for more than 5 minutes due to neck, back, and shoulder issues.
As usual, personal anecdote is rarely a legitimate basis for generalizing.

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Duck!
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Re: Help deciding between 2 road bikes

Postby Duck! » Wed May 30, 2018 10:52 pm

I'm around 175cm, so no giant, but not a midget either. 37mm is not a significantly different proprtion of an adult human's height, regardless of overall height. For a person at a fairly short 160cm, it's 2.3% of their height. At 180cm, that 37mm is 2.05%. That is pretty inconsequential.

Go and stand on something 37mm thick and see if you can see any better from it. I highly doubt you'll notice any difference.

The differences in geometry have much more effect on the postural comfort of the rider than their ability to see and be seen.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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P!N20
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Re: Help deciding between 2 road bikes

Postby P!N20 » Thu May 31, 2018 8:55 am

Image

mitteh
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Re: Help deciding between 2 road bikes

Postby mitteh » Thu May 31, 2018 9:39 am

Howzat wrote:Note the Focus Cayo from 2018 is called the "Izalco Race". So stores will be motivated to clear the model with the old label. It's the exact same bike, so there may be a bargain to be had. I have one, great bike, it gets you down lower than "endurance" bikes as the head tube is shorter.



Yeah well they have it listed for 4599 marked down to 3800 and can do 3750. 4150 for the bike, helmet, lights, shoes, cleets, pedals, cage, tubes, cylinders + nozzle, and a bike fit.

I feel like im getting a good deal I just cant help but get over the fact that I could get a similarly specced bike 2nd hand and save 1500$.

mitteh
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Re: Help deciding between 2 road bikes

Postby mitteh » Thu May 31, 2018 9:39 am

P!N20 wrote:Image


lol if I win the lotto tonight !!

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