Looking for belt-drive geared bike with drop bars

solarvalue
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Looking for belt-drive geared bike with drop bars

Postby solarvalue » Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:34 am

Hi all,

First post here so apologies if wrong section, question asked before, etc. I am looking for the following kind of bike and have not been able to find it despite some pretty extensive searching:

Belt drive
Geared
Drop bars with hooded brake levers
Preferably Under $2500

Here's what I have come up with so far:

Base Urban RD 1.0 (looks perfect but seems it is no longer available):
http://www.flyingmachine.com.au/product/rd-1-0/

Vivente World Randonneur Swabia (also looks good but expensive and probably more hard core than I need):
https://commutercycles.com.au/shop/vive ... abia-2017/

Any other ideas? Thanks in advance.

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10speedsemiracer
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Re: Looking for belt-drive geared bike with drop bars

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:18 pm

I had a vague thought that Kona had one, but there's no listing on their site. Thought it was a version of the Paddy Wagon, but was clearly mistaken. Schindelhauer use the Shimano hubs, but are all flat bars. I think you're stuck with the Vivente Swabia, although is a hell of a bike to be stuck with.....just not cheap. Maybe find a pre-loved ?
Mmm, SunTour

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10speedsemiracer
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Re: Looking for belt-drive geared bike with drop bars

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:22 pm

There are some who put these things together to order, with Rohloff hubs :

Image

but these would also smack your budget around a bit (lot).

This one (above) is by a guy named Rodriguez, in Seattle.
Mmm, SunTour

RobertL
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Re: Looking for belt-drive geared bike with drop bars

Postby RobertL » Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:22 pm

That Base Urban site says:

How to Order
This model is now all sold out in its original colours, it is however still available as a made to order machine Contact us via the form at the bottom of the page for more details.


So maybe it is still available?
Image

solarvalue
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Re: Looking for belt-drive geared bike with drop bars

Postby solarvalue » Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:37 pm

10speedsemiracer wrote:I think you're stuck with the Vivente Swabia, although is a hell of a bike to be stuck with.....just not cheap. Maybe find a pre-loved ?


Thanks, 10speedsemiracer, I'll keep an eye out.

10speedsemiracer wrote:There are some who put these things together to order, with Rohloff hubs but these would also smack your budget around a bit (lot). This one (above) is by a guy named Rodriguez, in Seattle.


That does look nice.

RobertL wrote:That Base Urban site says: How to Order This model is now all sold out in its original colours, it is however still available as a made to order machine Contact us via the form at the bottom of the page for more details. So maybe it is still available?


I have emailed him, so we'll see what happens. However, there is a thread online somewhere from a couple of years ago discussing how busy he is and how hard it is to get a reply.

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MattyK
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Re: Looking for belt-drive geared bike with drop bars

Postby MattyK » Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:46 pm

I'm not aware of any off the shelf. But you could easily source all the necessary parts.

I built a similar bike from an Avanti Blade 8 (2007), converted flat bars to drop and used the Sussex Versa VRS levers. No belt drive though.

An Avanti Inc would suit this if you want belt, bear in mind the frame of a flat bar is usually longer than an equivalent drop bar bike so you'd probably want to go down a frame size.

If you're starting more from a bare frame (or just willing to spend more), Shimano do a Di2 Alfine hub, which you could pair with their Di2 levers (presumably any of them, especially the hydros). Might go over budget though, and I believe there might be issues getting a belt sprocket to fit with the Di2 hub.
But the shifting would be waaay better than the Versa, which basically sucks (big lever throw, can jump multiple shifts), plus the brake lever throw sucks too, or maybe that's just the brakes I have (Avid BB7R front and mini-V rear).

Jtek are I think the only other company that do a suitable mechanical shifter, but it's bar end only.

I will however finish with the question WHY?
Honestly, If I started from scratch again I wouldn't go for a hub gear drop bar bike, I would probably set up a 1x derailleur system. More efficient, lighter, just as easy, more parts available. I'd take that over a bit of grease and shifting when stationary any day #hindsight.

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Thoglette
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Re: Looking for belt-drive geared bike with drop bars

Postby Thoglette » Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:33 pm

MattyK wrote: I'd take that over a bit of grease

Anyone who is worried about grease should just stop using grease and wax their chain.

Yes, a waxed chain still gets covered in road grime but then so will a belt. Nothing can be done about that if you're going to ride on roads used by haste-wagons.
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ

robbo mcs
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Re: Looking for belt-drive geared bike with drop bars

Postby robbo mcs » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:04 pm

Part of the reason there are not many is that most of the hub gear systems are twist shift, which tends to work better with flat bars than drop bars. I have a belt drive swabia, and I like it, but it the shifting setup is very different from sti/brifter setup on most drop bars. There are some after market rohloff adaptions to work more like brifters, but can't vouch for them.

As mentioned above, the shimano alfine 11 speed has a di2 option that works with di2 brifters, but expensive.

Also, worth noting that if you are looking at second hand swabias, they only changed to belt drive start of 2017, prior to that they were rohloff/chain drive.

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MattyK
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Re: Looking for belt-drive geared bike with drop bars

Postby MattyK » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:13 pm

OK, on reappraisal, here's what I'd get if you still want IGH, drop bars, belt drive and hydro brakes (because you should want hydro brakes)

1) a flat bar bike (one or two sizes smaller than recommended - use the top tube length for comparison), e.g.:
https://www.bicyclesonline.com.au/polyg ... mmut~67081
or
http://www.avantibikes.com/au/bikes/urb ... rban-bike/

plus:
2) https://www.gevenalle.com/product/hydraulic/
Their stuff is very well rated, the shifters are simple, and the TRP brakes have excellent reviews.
I wasn't sure earlier, but it appears they do do an IGH shifter version. 8 speed only on their site, which will give you enough range for most urban riding.
Offset some cost by selling the original brakes.
You could go cheaper and use cable brakes:
https://www.gevenalle.com/product/ux/
but I wouldn't, plus you'd have to buy thecalipers additionally.

Plus
3) bars and tape of course, and maybe factor in a shorter stem.

Should be doable under $2000

solarvalue
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Re: Looking for belt-drive geared bike with drop bars

Postby solarvalue » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:36 pm

robbo mcs wrote:Part of the reason there are not many is that most of the hub gear systems are twist shift, which tends to work better with flat bars than drop bars. I have a belt drive swabia, and I like it, but it the shifting setup is very different from sti/brifter setup on most drop bars. There are some after market rohloff adaptions to work more like brifters, but can't vouch for them.

As mentioned above, the shimano alfine 11 speed has a di2 option that works with di2 brifters, but expensive.

Also, worth noting that if you are looking at second hand swabias, they only changed to belt drive start of 2017, prior to that they were rohloff/chain drive.


Good to know, thanks!

Also thanks MattyK for putting all that together, a lot of great info there.

solarvalue
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Re: Looking for belt-drive geared bike with drop bars

Postby solarvalue » Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:35 pm

OK, I have looked at this a bit more and if I go with MattyK's plan to use the Gevenalle levers and shifters, it seems I would have 2 options with hydraulic brakes. The Avanti Inc2 is out because it has mechanical disc brakes - the Avanti Inc3 has hydraulic brakes but a Shimano Alfine 11-Speed Rear hub which isn't compatible with the shifters. Am I right?

So that leaves the:

Polygon Path 18

or the Lekker Amsterdam Elite 8:
https://www.lekkerbikes.com.au/product/ ... m-to-175cm

Both use the Shimano Nexus 8 hub, and Shimano hydraulic disc brakes.

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MattyK
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Re: Looking for belt-drive geared bike with drop bars

Postby MattyK » Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:21 pm

The Avanti Inc 2 mech brakes would work with the Gevenalle UX levers.
Avanti Inc3 won't work unless you downgrade to 8 speed.

Any Inter-8 disc bike would work with the Gevenalle Hydraulic, because TRP calipers are included with the brakes.

Looking around again, the Gevenalle shifters are made by Microshift, who have taken over (taken back/continued making) the old Versa design. But they're only making an Inter-11 drop bar lever. <edit> They do make an 8-speed bar-end shifter if that floats your boat.

So that would be the third option: Avanti Inc 3 with Microshift Inter11 levers, and mech disc calipers.

The Lekker is a very different bike - skinny tyres, deep (heavy) rims, probably steeper geometry. The others are fatter tyred, more comfy style bikes. So that decision will depend on what you want it for. Which I asked earlier, but I'm still not clear on.

solarvalue
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Re: Looking for belt-drive geared bike with drop bars

Postby solarvalue » Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:41 pm

MattyK wrote:Any Inter-8 disc bike would work with the Gevenalle Hydraulic, because TRP calipers are included with the brakes.


OK, I spoke to the Lekker guy in Melbourne and he said they would be happy to do the conversion, but that they would need to replace the brakes as well. This confused me, but I guess he was talking about the calipers?

On the Gevenalle website it says that the setup is 8sp Alfine IGH Compatible but doesn't mention the Nexus. Do you think it would work OK with the Nexus 8 as well?

MattyK wrote:The Lekker is a very different bike - skinny tyres, deep (heavy) rims, probably steeper geometry. The others are fatter tyred, more comfy style bikes. So that decision will depend on what you want it for. Which I asked earlier, but I'm still not clear on.


Sorry, I didn't mean to ignore your question. I want to use it primarily for commuting, 10k each way. I want a smooth ride and from experience I don't seem to be able to get around to servicing my bike very often, so I would like something low maintenance. Otherwise, I know I'll just be riding around on an out-of-tune bike all the time.

Oh, one more question, Lekker also has a version with a Nuvinci hub, is there any shifter available for this hub which would work with drops or is it out of the question?

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MattyK
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Re: Looking for belt-drive geared bike with drop bars

Postby MattyK » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:35 pm

Lekker is most likely talking about the calipers - you can't typically interchange levers and calipers willy nilly, they need to be designed to work together. (edit: that's for both cable and hydraulic, though cable brakes have a bit more leeway in the two groups of "road" and "MTB" cable pull leverage)

Nexus and Alfine (8) work with the same shifters.

I'm not aware of a drop bar shifter for the Nuvinci. If it's a double cable setup you're probably out of luck, otherwise a Gevenalle friction shifter might work.

If it's for smooth/comfy commuting I'd get one of the fatter tyred bike with (or at least with capacity for) mudguards.

I was in your boat when I got my Nexus hubbed bike. Didn't want to worry about maintenance etc. But frankly unless you damage or abuse it a derailleur bike doesn't really go out of tune. And access to service will be much easier (not that hub gears need much service, but not many shops will be that familiar with them)

robbo mcs
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Re: Looking for belt-drive geared bike with drop bars

Postby robbo mcs » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:10 pm

Do you really need the drop bars for a 10km commute?

There are many good options for a flatbar / belt / hub / hydro discs. Have you tried test riding one of these? Flat bars can be a good option for commutes, and might save a lot of fiddling around.

Personally I think for the sake of a 10km commute probably a lot easier to go either with a drop bar derailleur, or a flatbar hub bike.

Also for a commute bike you probably need to think about whether you need racks, guards etc as well

uad782
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Re: Looking for belt-drive geared bike with drop bars

Postby uad782 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:30 pm

The new Salsa Fargos can use a belt drive. You could get a frame and build it up.


solarvalue
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Re: Looking for belt-drive geared bike with drop bars

Postby solarvalue » Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:51 am

robbo mcs wrote:Do you really need the drop bars for a 10km commute?


No, but I want them. :wink:

baabaa wrote:For a commuter just get one of these
https://www.bikeexchange.com.au/a/cruis ... /103782511


That one is chain drive but there is this:
https://www.bikeexchange.com.au/a/urban ... /103782570

Those Shand bikes are awesome, exactly what I want, but oh so expensive. Even if I managed to save up that much, I wouldn't be able to ride it for fear of something happening to it.

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baabaa
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Re: Looking for belt-drive geared bike with drop bars

Postby baabaa » Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:54 am

That one is chain drive but there is this:

whoops wrong link, yes that one was the right link.
Also have a look at Joebikes in the us for ideas....
https://www.joe-bike.com/product-list/b ... rive-1264/
Also note some of the frames they have which even with the freight to oz would give you some good bones to work up build up from. If they have your size, why not ask them for a price to make up and ship a 1/4, 1/3 or 3/4 made up bike for you?

And yes shand make some fine bikes.

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MattyK
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Re: Looking for belt-drive geared bike with drop bars

Postby MattyK » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:00 pm

Bombtrack Outlaw 2 looks nice too.

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10speedsemiracer
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Re: Looking for belt-drive geared bike with drop bars

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:07 pm

Maybe the Canyon Commuter 8.0 ?

Image

Has flat bar, but seem to be a very low-set flat bar. Has the Gates belt (which apparently is the belt to have) back to Shimano Alfine 11sp. Shimano Deore discs, and what seems to be a very nice wheelset.

https://www.canyon.com/en-au/urban/commuter/2018/commuter-8-0.html
Mmm, SunTour

solarvalue
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Re: Looking for belt-drive geared bike with drop bars

Postby solarvalue » Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:36 pm

Baabaa, thanks, will contact Joe Bike and ask.

Thanks for the other suggestions guys but I'm not sure about the Outlaw 2 and Canyon Commuter.

TheDotProd
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Re: Looking for belt-drive geared bike with drop bars

Postby TheDotProd » Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:06 am

10speedsemiracer wrote:Maybe the Canyon Commuter 8.0 ?

Image

Has flat bar, but seem to be a very low-set flat bar. Has the Gates belt (which apparently is the belt to have) back to Shimano Alfine 11sp. Shimano Deore discs, and what seems to be a very nice wheelset.

https://www.canyon.com/en-au/urban/commuter/2018/commuter-8-0.html


Dam that is one cool looking bike, especially in the grey colour with the brown seat and brown grips.

:-)

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