N+1 advice - steel frame tourer/hauler

rogerwilco
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N+1 advice - steel frame tourer/hauler

Postby rogerwilco » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:36 pm

I have 3 bikes.

Bike 1
About 10 years ago, I took an 80s repco superlite and built it as a steel frame tourer with Shimano 10 speed 105, nitto stem and bars, brooks saddle and a nice slimline rack. I've loved that bike, and done many kms on it, including the old Kinglake Challenge. But there's things I don't like about it. The headstem is too narrow (looks good, not comfortable), it very heavy, and isn't that much fun to commute on any more, as things are getting a bit wonky and worn. It was the first (and possible last) bike that I planned and built from scratch. All new parts, except the frame. Expensive, and I just don't have the time or patience to do that again.

Bike 2
Brompton folding bike. This is a really more of a souvenir from living in UK. It's a cool bike, and has special meaning, because I rode it every day commuting in London, and watched it get built by a Brompton pop-up store as part of London Design Festival. It's the most fun to ride, but there's something about the geometry or small cranks or something-or-other that gives me pretty bad knee pain if I ride it too often. So it's not a practical commuter. Although I probably should work on my setup to make it better.

Bike 3
Cannondale Synapse from a few years ago. This is a good machine for long rides and training on the rollers when it's too cold/wet outside, or not enough time for big rides.

It's time to replace bike #1. As I'm getting less young, I want comfort, and a smooth, effortless ride for commuting. It's a only a short ride... but it still matters. I also want to be able to haul gear. I like a small rack and bag setup. It's just better for those days where it's too hot to ride to work without showering. I also want to be able to haul a trailer with a kid too.

Given the kinda bikes I own, and the kind of bike that I want, what do you think I should look at?
Kona Roadhouse seems pretty awesome, but really quite expensive.

Whaddaya reckon? Let me know a few options to kickstart my research!

Cheers, -RW
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Velt
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Re: N+1 advice - steel frame tourer/hauler

Postby Velt » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:25 pm

Malvern Star Oppy S series

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familyguy
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Re: N+1 advice - steel frame tourer/hauler

Postby familyguy » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:49 pm

The S bikes look ok (if you can find one). But, even from a Malvern Star fan, there are a lot of better value bikes out there now. Avanti Giro AR1, Polygon Bend RV, Fuji Jari, Giant ToughRoad/AnyRoad, Felt VR, Norco Search, Ried Granite...the segment seems huge and is priced from the sublime to the ridiculous. Most of these are aluminium with carbon forks, though some have aluminium forks. If you're convinced it has to be steel, try Surly, among others.

Jim

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Thoglette
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Re: N+1 advice - steel frame tourer/hauler

Postby Thoglette » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:48 pm

familyguy wrote:Most of these are aluminium with carbon forks, though some have aluminium forks.
Which is , to put it politely, "not on the radar". It's not better value if it's not what you asked for.
familyguy wrote:If you're convinced it has to be steel
Ah, I think the OP is. His problem is that he wants to buy off-the-rack (at a sane price point), rather than DIY (again)

The Oppy's are the obvious answer.

I'll go sort my list but I'm running low on battery :oops: :oops:
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queequeg
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Re: N+1 advice - steel frame tourer/hauler

Postby queequeg » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:05 am

Cracking special on the Lynskey Backroad Frames at the moment

https://lynskeyperformance.com/backroad ... clearance/

$USD899

You'd need to add a fork and a full build, but considering the normal price is $USD3000 for the frame alone, it's a ripper of a discount.
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rogerwilco
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Re: N+1 advice - steel frame tourer/hauler

Postby rogerwilco » Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:13 am

Ah, I think the OP is. His problem is that he wants to buy off-the-rack (at a sane price point), rather than DIY (again)
Yeah, it's gotta be steel, and preferably pretty good steel, not flabby 4130 tubes.
Cracking special on the Lynskey Backroad Frames at the moment
Outstanding price, but Ti is overkill for my needs. And it works out around AU$2500 just in frame, fork, headset, etc. I'd still have to buy wheels, group set, and build the thing. Not up for it. Probably closer to $4000 (and a lot of waiting to arrive, and time to build on arrival). If I were doing that, I'd find a vintage lightweight steelie frame, and transfer the bits I have, and buy a few new things. I guess that's still an option, if the right frame set falls in my lap for the right price, but not at $4000.

Reynolds or Columbus would be nice, and I don't feel great about running less than a 105 groupset.

The Oppy's run Reynolds 520 frame and 105 group set. Worth a look.
Bomtrack Audax has Columbus frame and 105 group set, also looks worthwhile.
Kona Wheelhouse has the same Reynolds 853 frame as the Roadhouse, with cheaper running gear. Also looks worthwhile.

Time for some test rides I think!
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Re: N+1 advice - steel frame tourer/hauler

Postby brumby33 » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:34 am

"ya gotta hold ya mouth right"

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Re: N+1 advice - steel frame tourer/hauler

Postby twowheels » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:54 am

Jamis Aurora

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familyguy
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Re: N+1 advice - steel frame tourer/hauler

Postby familyguy » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:01 am

Thoglette wrote:
familyguy wrote:Most of these are aluminium with carbon forks, though some have aluminium forks.
Which is , to put it politely, "not on the radar". It's not better value if it's not what you asked for.
Where was steel specified in OP? Was not known read correctly until after, in my defence 8)

I still think the steel is becoming subject to marketing hype at the moment. Lots of good stuff about but the gear mostly aplears to be lower range then you find on comparably priced alu.

If steel it is, grab an Oppy and upgrade a few parts over time as they wear out. Easy.
Last edited by familyguy on Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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10speedsemiracer
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Re: N+1 advice - steel frame tourer/hauler

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:53 am

Unfortunately my first recommendation would be a Kona Roadhouse or a Wheelhouse, but you've mentioned that these may be a bit pricey. That then shoots down the other options, being a Surly Disc Trucker or a Vivente Patagonia. One option may be to purchase a steel tourer frame and appropriate bars, and then build up using the bits from the Repco with refurbishment where needed and modification where desired (maybe wheels/brakes)...

Economically more viable than buying complete. Alternatively a used Surly Trucker etc and customise to suit your preference/context...
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Re: N+1 advice - steel frame tourer/hauler

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:05 am

And queequeg has also mentioned a Lynskey Backroad touring frame

Image

on special at the moment. Even speccing a couple of extras (carbon fork, Cane Creek headset plus a spare derailleur hanger) would still factor out to around $1200 instead of $3000+. This would also be an option for build-up with the 105 from the Repco Superlite.
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Thoglette
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Re: N+1 advice - steel frame tourer/hauler

Postby Thoglette » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:32 pm

Hmm, beyond the Oppy

Maybe Gios Spazio Tourer (if you can find one). Perhaps "plain" 4130 not butted.

Plus the usual suspects Velo Orange; Rivendell (Roadini); Masi (e.g. Special Randonneur or GRAN CRITERIUM); Surly (Cross Check); Soma (lots) plus a few littlies like Crust, who have distribution here.

Lots of leads in the 650B thread and The Radivist is worth a look, if a little gravelly. Plus the Handmade Bike Show (lots in press such as BikeTips) - as well as the $$$$ items there's some off-the-rack bikes for not so silly money.
There are a number of smaller shops who'll do the build for you if you can't find an off the rack bike.

How fast do you want to spend? (Am I right that the Kona's got a $3500USD rrp? Not quite JP Weigle territory but not cheap)
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baabaa
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Re: N+1 advice - steel frame tourer/hauler

Postby baabaa » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:57 pm

If you are after an almost one frame that can be built in a whole heap of ways, dirtworks have a few of these in different sizes up cheap on ebay
https://www.ebay.com.au/i/253584976407?chn=ps
https://www.evanscycles.com/en-au/ritch ... t-EV334227
I have one (but the breakaway) and compared to my other light steel framed bikes (True Temper OX Platinum) these things may not be light weight but just as comfortable on a 5 or 50 k ride. I wouldn't call them a mountain or a cx bike, they can do that but they are also not slow on the tar.
You could build it with 700c or 650b (or a set of each), drop or flat bar, single, double or triple. I have run down to 32 mm cx tyres but just dropped on some 29er 1.9 inch tyre and they fit. I also run it with front and rear racks or just frame bags. It is such a versatile beast I could have this as my only bike.
Also nice to have a commuter with plenty of rack and muddy mounts plus it is qr standard 100 front and 135 rear so plenty of wheel options which should be able to pull a kiddy cart. I like the way ritchey think around staying with what works when building good steel tubed frames.
for a-not-just-my-opinion.... see
https://bicycletimesmag.com/review-ritc ... ay-ascent/

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Re: N+1 advice - steel frame tourer/hauler

Postby familyguy » Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:06 pm

Pinched off another thread:
https://www.bicyclesonline.com.au/2018- ... -road-bike

Update parts as they wear out.

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Re: N+1 advice - steel frame tourer/hauler

Postby RonK » Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:40 pm

Wayward Cape York. At $999 it's very well-priced currently.

Wayward Cape York
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Re: N+1 advice - steel frame tourer/hauler

Postby opik_bidin » Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:41 pm

I'm thinking of selling my Salsa La Cruz, would you want it?

I'm in Sydney, bought it used from the previous owner, was on it because I wanted a steel frame with disc brakes, but it was not as good (based on my feeling) as my older bike (Mongoose Omega 1997 bike), which I also bought used, and was so modified by the previous owner so I got a high stem, carbon fork, ultegra FD, 105 shifter and brakes, and Deore RD on that omega.

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Re: N+1 advice - steel frame tourer/hauler

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:55 pm

RonK wrote:Wayward Cape York. At $999 it's very well-priced currently.

Wayward Cape York
For the $s, this would be an excellent option. Good component mix, all the bits you may need for light touring/commuting. At this price point this would also be my recommendation (can't believe I'd forgotten these..)
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Re: N+1 advice - steel frame tourer/hauler

Postby rogerwilco » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:43 am

This Lynskey Backroad option has got me thinking...
I just did the maths on this, and it comesin just on AU$4,000 if I reuse existing 105 cassette, crankset, and derailleurs, along with existing saddle, and pedals.

I'd still have to buy a bunch of stuff
STI brake shifter (my existing ones are downtube)
Stem and handlebars
Seatpost
Mudguards
Wheelset (Hunt 4 seasons)
New rack
Disc rotors
Disc callipers

That's a high end, custom spec, and it's titanium, for a price less than the current price of Kona Roadhouse. Definitely considering it.

Have not seen Kona Roadhouse below $4000, Wheelhouse (same frame, lesser components) can be done for $2500, which is quite good.
Vivente is not really my jibe.
Wayward is undoubted good value at $999. I guess I now have to make a decision.

Do I want 'just a bike'? Get the Wayward.
Good lightweight steel frame, reasonable price, that I can upgrade over time (wheelset etc.), and be happy riding for the next decade or more? Get the Wheelhouse.
An indulgent 'forever bike', over the top for my needs, that I'll probably feel guilty about not riding enough. Build a Lynskey Backroad.

When I say it like that, the Backroad might be tempting, but the Kona Wheelhouse probably makes the most sense.
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baabaa
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Re: N+1 advice - steel frame tourer/hauler

Postby baabaa » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:12 am

Um...105 cassette, crankset, and derailleurs.... Sorry but if I was you I would do a double then a triple check on if these parts would work on the Backroad which is a vastly different bike to a '90s repco. ie 126 mm rear and hubs vs 142, will a 142mm 11 speed hub work with the cluster, RD and then find a suitable shifter, will the bb and road crankset of 68mm fit or is it 68/73mm and so on.
My tip if you are building up a bike from a frame you really need to budget around the same era of each and every bit of drivetrain or it will cost you big $$.
Both the waywood and kona are fine bikes and it would be far better to upgrade some of these parts if need be, just focus on getting the right size as the number 1 as this (comfort when on the saddle )will make you want to ride.

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Re: N+1 advice - steel frame tourer/hauler

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:16 am

Campagnolo for show, SunTour for go

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Re: N+1 advice - steel frame tourer/hauler

Postby RonK » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:01 am

rogerwilco wrote:This Lynskey Backroad option has got me thinking...
I just did the maths on this, and it comesin just on AU$4,000 if I reuse existing 105 cassette, crankset, and derailleurs, along with existing saddle, and pedals.
If you are thinking Lynskey, then this is a better deal. GR 260 Gravel Bike
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Re: N+1 advice - steel frame tourer/hauler

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:07 am

baabaa wrote:Um...105 cassette, crankset, and derailleurs.... Sorry but if I was you I would do a double then a triple check on if these parts would work on the Backroad which is a vastly different bike to a '90s repco. ie 126 mm rear and hubs vs 142, will a 142mm 11 speed hub work with the cluster, RD and then find a suitable shifter, will the bb and road crankset of 68mm fit or is it 68/73mm and so on.
My tip if you are building up a bike from a frame you really need to budget around the same era of each and every bit of drivetrain or it will cost you big $$.
Both the waywood and kona are fine bikes and it would be far better to upgrade some of these parts if need be, just focus on getting the right size as the number 1 as this (comfort when on the saddle )will make you want to ride.
Yeah what he said..
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rogerwilco
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Re: N+1 advice - steel frame tourer/hauler

Postby rogerwilco » Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:13 pm

Um...105 cassette, crankset, and derailleurs.... Sorry but if I was you I would do a double then a triple check on if these parts would work on the Backroad which is a vastly different bike to a '90s repco. ie 126 mm rear and hubs vs 142, will a 142mm 11 speed hub work with the cluster, RD and then find a suitable shifter, will the bb and road crankset of 68mm fit or is it 68/73mm and so on.
My tip if you are building up a bike from a frame you really need to budget around the same era of each and every bit of drivetrain or it will cost you big $$.
Both the waywood and kona are fine bikes and it would be far better to upgrade some of these parts if need be, just focus on getting the right size as the number 1 as this (comfort when on the saddle )will make you want to ride.
Yeah, I didn't look into it with much rigour. But this is exactly why I don't really want to build another one. It's always more expensive, and more hassle than you think it's going to be!

I did see the GR 260 on the Lynskey website. Really nice machine. Tempted. Very tempted! All the work is done, and it's cheaper than a Kona Roadhouse, delivered. Still a lot of money though.
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baabaa
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Re: N+1 advice - steel frame tourer/hauler

Postby baabaa » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:36 pm

I did see the GR 260 on the Lynskey website. Really nice machine. Tempted. Very tempted! All the work is done, and it's cheaper than a Kona Roadhouse, delivered.
My guess is that is in US $ and once you add in the return trip to the usa to pick it up, it may well be a little bit more than the kona.......

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Re: N+1 advice - steel frame tourer/hauler

Postby rogerwilco » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:25 am

Yes, it is US dollars. Shipping is free, but have to pay GST on entry, and customs handling fees (~$200). What I didn’t realise is that it’s a package of components, not a fully built machine. So I’d have to do it, or pay someone. All in, it’s more like AU$4500.
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