11-28, 11-30, 11-32

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Defy The Odds
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11-28, 11-30, 11-32

Postby Defy The Odds » Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:47 pm

I am currently in the process of building a bike (see my other thread) and looking at chainring/cassette options.

On my current road bike which is a Defy, I ride a compact 50/34 and 11-28. I find on some steep climbs I could really use a bailout gear.

I was thinking the 11-30 would be a happy medium between the 11-28 and 11-32 as it wouldn't be as large jumps between gears on the flats (the bike is an Allez so I want to maintain the flat riding speed capabilities of the bike). Or should I just go 11-32 and have a machine for all conditions?

Other thing is I was thinking to set it up for mainly flats and speed and possibly convert the defy to an 11-32 or even 34t ?

I've always done minor maintenance at home on the bike but the building and changing/swapping groupsets and such is all new to me so happy to listen to opinions.

Thank you in advance !

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MattyK
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Re: 11-28, 11-30, 11-32

Postby MattyK » Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:58 pm

28 to 30 is only a 7% gearing drop.

28 to 32 is a 14% drop. (side note, this is as big a "step" between gears as a 14 to 16 tooth shift. i.e. not that bad.)

On the flipside, to put a 32 or bigger on there you'd probably need a drop tooth or a new rear derailleur. A short cage derailleur should (duck?) handle 30T without problem.

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Re: 11-28, 11-30, 11-32

Postby caneye » Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:59 pm

you probably need to look at the compatibility of your rear derailleur too.

do you know if it is a long/short/med cage derailleur?

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10speedsemiracer
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Re: 11-28, 11-30, 11-32

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:07 pm

If 11-28 on a compact isn't doing it, go nuts and fit an 11-32 as you'd barely feel the difference with an 11-30. If this is for a new build, spec an appropriate RD and Robert is your mother's brother..
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Defy The Odds
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Re: 11-28, 11-30, 11-32

Postby Defy The Odds » Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:08 pm

The R7000 has option of short or mid cage RD

I would say the 11-30 would run on the 11-30

If I went 11-32 I would definitely need a mid cage but was wondering if it is even worth it going for an 11-30t or go straight for the 11-32 with the 50/34 chainrings.

I was thinking perhaps the 11-30 might be a good middle ground as an all rounder - may even go an 11-32t on the Defy and keep that as the "climbing" bike....

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10speedsemiracer
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Re: 11-28, 11-30, 11-32

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:09 pm

Defy The Odds wrote:The R7000 has option of short or mid cage RD

I would say the 11-30 would run on the 11-30

If I went 11-32 I would definitely need a mid cage but was wondering if it is even worth it going for an 11-30t or go straight for the 11-32 with the 50/34 chainrings.

I was thinking perhaps the 11-30 might be a good middle ground as an all rounder - may even go an 11-32t on the Defy and keep that as the "climbing" bike....


Go the mid-cage and 11-32...gives you more scope in future to climb even bigger hills
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Defy The Odds
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Re: 11-28, 11-30, 11-32

Postby Defy The Odds » Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:11 pm

10speedsemiracer wrote:
Defy The Odds wrote:The R7000 has option of short or mid cage RD

I would say the 11-30 would run on the 11-30

If I went 11-32 I would definitely need a mid cage but was wondering if it is even worth it going for an 11-30t or go straight for the 11-32 with the 50/34 chainrings.

I was thinking perhaps the 11-30 might be a good middle ground as an all rounder - may even go an 11-32t on the Defy and keep that as the "climbing" bike....


Go the mid-cage and 11-32...gives you more scope in future to climb even bigger hills


This is true - would the jumps be significant on the 11-32 with 50/34 chainrings ??

Having said that, I have a Giant Toughroad with SRAM Apex 1x and I got used to the jumps by adjusting my cadence I guess I could do the same on the new build

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10speedsemiracer
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Re: 11-28, 11-30, 11-32

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:26 pm

The gaps between ratios thing is very subjective, but no I don't think the gaps are too much of an issue, especially with a 34t small front ring which will make any jump at the climbing end of the cassette more manageable.
But as I said, it can be very subjective and if you've already adapted to a 1x, then I don't think you'll have any issues.
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Re: 11-28, 11-30, 11-32

Postby MichaelB » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:21 pm

Defy The Odds wrote:
This is true - would the jumps be significant on the 11-32 with 50/34 chainrings ??



Riding a Reid Granite 3 atm, and when I need the 32T at the rear, I NEED the big jump. Mind you, that's only on extended 16% + ramps.

Rode up Mt Osmond (steep side) with 34/25 and the last 1.5km is 14%+ all the way.

Some people complain about the jumps, but I've NEVER gone, "Damn, that 2t (or equivalent %) jump is just making this bike unrideable !"

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10speedsemiracer
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Re: 11-28, 11-30, 11-32

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:58 pm

MichaelB wrote:
....some people complain about the jumps, but I've NEVER gone, "Damn, that 2t (or equivalent %) jump is just making this bike unrideable !"


exactly this..

+1
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Warin
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Re: 11-28, 11-30, 11-32

Postby Warin » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:49 pm

It is not the change from 28 to 32 that is a problem.
The problem is the increased steps in the changes of the intermediate gears.

Some 'touring' cassettes kept the smaller sprockets the same .. but made larger jumps yet again for the bottom ratios - still ends up with, say a 32 but the large changes are only in the bottom ratios. This effectively keeps the ratios changes the same in the big sprocket (as you don't use the larger rear sprockets) but gives you those extra low gears when you need them.

Unfortunately 'touring' cassettes are not found these days .. make your own out of 2 cassettes if you want. Real depends on where you spend most of your time - in the low gears or elsewhere? If your only a short time in the low gears then a 'touring' cassette maybe worth it.

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Re: 11-28, 11-30, 11-32

Postby Derny Driver » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:55 pm

10speedsemiracer wrote:
MichaelB wrote:
....some people complain about the jumps, but I've NEVER gone, "Damn, that 2t (or equivalent %) jump is just making this bike unrideable !"


exactly this..

+1

I have. I have said exactly that. Seriously.
Anyway, here's my thoughts.

In my opinion, the perfect gear for just general cruising around on, general riding and training, is about 65 gear inches. Next time you are riding take note of the chainring and rear gear which you use the most on the flat. Put it into http://www.bikecalc.com and get the gear inch number. It will be between 58 and 72 gear inches. You can argue about it if you want but lets go with this for the purpose of the exercise.
Now on compact cranks (34-50) that means your go-to gears are 34/ 12, 13, 14, 15 (65" is between 13 and 14 cog) or 50 / 19,20,21 (20 cog is 65")
Here are the ratios of your 2 options
11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-27-30 Miche
11-12-13-14-16-18-20-22-25-28-32 Shimano

Not a lot of difference.
Shimano is missing the 15 cog you need for small ring riding. But the 50/20 is a perfect 65 gear inches.
Miche has the 15 and in the big ring you have 50 /19 and 50/21 which are right in the slot for cruising.
Hair splitting I guess.

The difference between 34-30 and 34-32 is 30 gear inches versus 28". Negligible.
I'd probably buy the 11-30

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Re: 11-28, 11-30, 11-32

Postby Duck! » Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:48 pm

MattyK wrote:
On the flipside, to put a 32 or bigger on there you'd probably need a drop tooth or a new rear derailleur. A short cage derailleur should (duck?) handle 30T without problem.

Shimano's latest generation of road derailleurs are frigging huge - they're almost MTB derailleurs. I haven't fully played around to test the actual capacity (rather than the factory-stated capacity), but with the factory-spec "maximum" 11-30 cassette + 16T front difference (chainring difference rather than actual ring size is the critcal factor) the "short" (which is almost as long as a previous-generation "long/medium" [they're the same thing]) derailleur is pushed nowhere its limits of either large sprocket clearance or chain length. A "short" R9100/R8000/R7000 "Shadow"-type derailleur I feel can easily fit a 32T sprocket and carry ample chain for pairing with a 16T ring difference, and could probably handle the 34T cassette. The "medium" (long) model is pretty well superfluos given Shimano no longer make road triples above Tiagra level. Placed next to a MTB derailleur designed for 11-36 + triple with 22T difference, they're almost identical. I don't think it could reach to the extent of a 40T MTB cassette, but should comfortably take a 36T, beyond its official 34T max.

Even 9000, 6800 & 5800 1st-gen 11-sp, and 2012-onward 10-sp. short derailleurs will handle at least 30T, and on most frames 32T. 4700 Tiagra, which shares its architecure with 11-sp. gear, fits up to 34T, and only has a long cage because there's still a triple-ring option.....
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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Re: 11-28, 11-30, 11-32

Postby g-boaf » Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:10 pm

It depends on your build/fitness and the length and gradient of the climbs you are riding.

If you are facing 18% or more after sustained 8-9% already then you might like the 11-32.

Otherwise I think you can get away with 11-30, maybe 11-28. I've had mid compact and 11-28, it was okay for Colombiere and some others that weren't too steep.

On Bonette and Galibier I didn't use the 34/32 combination - 34-28 was enough. But it might be different for you.

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Re: 11-28, 11-30, 11-32

Postby Mububban » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:32 pm

I am skinny and weak and looooove my 32t cassette. My bike is 5800 105 and I believe it goes 11-12-13-14-16-18-20-22-25-28-32T.

Where I live I don't often need the 32t, 34-25 is usually fine for most things even for me, but when I do need it, having the 32t is a really noticeable benefit. With my limited power and fitness, the 32t allows me to spin/gasp my way up roads that have seen stronger looking riders on semi compact and 25-28 cassettes walking up.
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Re: 11-28, 11-30, 11-32

Postby baabaa » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:22 pm

These work well for a not so permanent option
https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/products/roadlink
I use one with most of my geared bikes running a road rear derailleur.
On for the 34 tooth and off for the 30 and less.

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Re: 11-28, 11-30, 11-32

Postby Velt » Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:28 pm

Duck! wrote:
MattyK wrote:
On the flipside, to put a 32 or bigger on there you'd probably need a drop tooth or a new rear derailleur. A short cage derailleur should (duck?) handle 30T without problem.

Shimano's latest generation of road derailleurs are frigging huge - they're almost MTB derailleurs. I haven't fully played around to test the actual capacity (rather than the factory-stated capacity), but with the factory-spec "maximum" 11-30 cassette + 16T front difference (chainring difference rather than actual ring size is the critcal factor) the "short" (which is almost as long as a previous-generation "long/medium" [they're the same thing]) derailleur is pushed nowhere its limits of either large sprocket clearance or chain length. A "short" R9100/R8000/R7000 "Shadow"-type derailleur I feel can easily fit a 32T sprocket and carry ample chain for pairing with a 16T ring difference, and could probably handle the 34T cassette. The "medium" (long) model is pretty well superfluos given Shimano no longer make road triples above Tiagra level. Placed next to a MTB derailleur designed for 11-36 + triple with 22T difference, they're almost identical. I don't think it could reach to the extent of a 40T MTB cassette, but should comfortably take a 36T, beyond its official 34T max.

Even 9000, 6800 & 5800 1st-gen 11-sp, and 2012-onward 10-sp. short derailleurs will handle at least 30T, and on most frames 32T. 4700 Tiagra, which shares its architecure with 11-sp. gear, fits up to 34T, and only has a long cage because there's still a triple-ring option.....


Works ok with a 40T
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Re: 11-28, 11-30, 11-32

Postby OnTrackZeD » Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:25 pm

Defy The Odds wrote:
Other thing is I was thinking to set it up for mainly flats and speed and possibly convert the defy to an 11-32 or even 34t ?


Use the 28 off your Defy onto your new build and get a 34 for the Defy.

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Defy The Odds
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Re: 11-28, 11-30, 11-32

Postby Defy The Odds » Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:33 pm

OnTrackZeD wrote:
Defy The Odds wrote:
Other thing is I was thinking to set it up for mainly flats and speed and possibly convert the defy to an 11-32 or even 34t ?


Use the 28 off your Defy onto your new build and get a 34 for the Defy.


The cassette on the Defy is around 5.5k old so its gonna be due to be replaced in near future otherwise this may have been a worthy option

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