Cycling data. Dilemma

Jaguari
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Cycling data. Dilemma

Postby Jaguari » Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:45 am

Hi All,

Does anyone else have this problem? I want:
- to track in real time heart rate and cadence to see if I go over my thresholds.
- heart rate data to come from my Apple Watch not a heart rate sensor
- data to be shown on a cycle computer on my road bike.
- data from ride to be uploaded to Strava. This is important.

My options seem to be:
1. Strava app on watch - no screen on my bike and no cadence
2. Strava app on phone gets cadence but does not show heart rate
3. CyclingComputer App. I have not tried this one it costs something. I dont really like the idea of running my iphone though for extended periods.

No cycling computer can use the heart data from the Apple Watch.

My alternative - give up on Apple Watch.
Buy Garmin 130
Buy Garmin watch compatible with extended display. This sounds perfect but I loose all the other fn benefits of Apple Watch

Why is there not a simple device that acts as an extended display for the Apple Watch?

How do you do it? I am perplexed. Any ideas welcome.

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MattyK
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Re: Cycling data. Dilemma

Postby MattyK » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:46 am

Why is getting HR from the watch such a dealbreaker for you?

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foo on patrol
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Re: Cycling data. Dilemma

Postby foo on patrol » Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:16 am

For a start, if you don't have a cadence sensor, nothing is going to give you that. :wink:

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Derny Driver
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Re: Cycling data. Dilemma

Postby Derny Driver » Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:00 pm

Heart rate data from a watch and not from a sensor?
How accurate is that?
A bit like the cadence data which is not from a crank sensor.

I cant help - except to say that data collection such as this does nothing in the way of improving your cycling. What would you do with the data?

Im a schoolteacher and we collect data on our students every day. We collect it, log it, scan it and file it. It is never used for anything to inform our teaching. That is informed by my brain, my knowledge of the students and their needs. The paperwork just takes time away from lesson preparation and other important stuff.

Data for data sake is a waste of time.
You'll probably agree with me after mucking around with it for a couple of years and nothing changing.

Jaguari
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Re: Cycling data. Dilemma

Postby Jaguari » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:53 pm

Interesting feedback.
I have a crank cadence sensor and heart rate on my watch. I wanted all of this data to go into my Strava account with speed and distance. To the question of why? It enables me to see if I am getting fitter and faster. I track improvements by how i improve on specific strava segments. For example I have been up a hill segment 47 times with strava over 3 years. I have reduced the time by 2 mins. What I don't know is how my cadence or heart rate is changing over time.

I agree that the Watch heart rate is not super accurate but the new watches are getting better. Who wants to wear a strap if you don't have to.

G
Last edited by Jaguari on Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jaguari
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Re: Cycling data. Dilemma

Postby Jaguari » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:54 pm

foo on patrol wrote:For a start, if you don't have a cadence sensor, nothing is going to give you that. :wink:

Foo

I do have a crank cadence sensor

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MattyK
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Re: Cycling data. Dilemma

Postby MattyK » Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:24 pm

Jaguari wrote:Interesting feedback.
I have a crank cadence sensor and heart rate on my watch. I wanted all of this data to go into my Strava account with speed and distance. To the question of why I can see if I am getting fitter and faster by how i improve on specific strava segments. For example I have been up a hill segment 47 times with strava over 3 years. I have reduced the time by 2 mins. What I don't know is how my cadence or heart rate is changing over time.

I agree that the Watch heart rate is not super accurate but the new watches are getting better. Who wants to wear a strap if you don't have to.

G

Heart Rate != Fitness

There are way too many input variables to heart rate to make it very meaningful.

Cadence isn't a measure of fitness either.

If you want to know if you're fitter, either just go off the strava segment time improvement, or get a power meter.

I'm fairly sure the Apple watch won't output a HR signal. If you don't like a chest strap get a Scosche or similar optical HR sensor. Or a newer Garmin watch.

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Cheesewheel
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Re: Cycling data. Dilemma

Postby Cheesewheel » Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:51 pm

MattyK wrote:
If you want to know if you're fitter, either just go off the strava segment time improvement, or get a power meter.

.



... or get a toaster?



Seriously, the strava segment improvement is the way to go (or if you want to pile on the bling, a power meter). Unless you have your heart set ( :mrgreen: ) on being some pro grade cyclist who's actual daytime job is being on the receiving end of the full "science behind the sport", the best takeaway you can get from all this data is a ballpark figure.
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mikgit
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Re: Cycling data. Dilemma

Postby mikgit » Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:39 pm

throw apple watch in bin... just ride...

I've got a garmin watch (645), the HR is OK for running long distance as you don't get much in the way of spikes, no major changes in effort, but using it riding, is pretty hopeless, it lags way behind, my chest strap is much better. I can ride up a hill, watch my HR go 80, 90, 100, 120, 140, 150... loo at my watch and its still at 85, then crest the hill and the watch starts to go up and it'll hit 165, as my HR is starting to go down. And thats the latest wrist HR version garmin is using.
I prefer to use the strap and my Edge 1000.
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Derny Driver
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Re: Cycling data. Dilemma

Postby Derny Driver » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:48 pm

Jaguari wrote:Interesting feedback.
To the question of why? It enables me to see if I am getting fitter and faster. I track improvements by how i improve on specific strava segments. For example I have been up a hill segment 47 times with strava over 3 years. I have reduced the time by 2 mins. What I don't know is how my cadence or heart rate is changing over time.

There are lots of other things you dont know as well, lots of variables. Dozens. Your fitness doesnt rank too high on the list.

When I started racing we used to do time trials about 3 or 4 times a year. Over a couple of years I improved my time over 18km from 32 and a half minutes to 28. I was fit when I started racing as I had done 3 years of triathlon racing. How did I take 4 and a half minutes off?
1. I learned how to pace myself better
2. I learned how to hurt myself more
3. I learned how to corner better
4. I learned how to ride on the fastest part of the road
5. I learned how to pedal more efficiently
6. I learned how to be more aerodynamic
7. I got tips off experienced riders
etc etc
Maybe I got slightly fitter, I dont know. But as my dad always said, "you cant get fitter than fit". There must be some point at which you fitness is as high as it can be. Unless you think you can keep getting faster and faster until you are Olympic standard. For most cyclists, their performance is average not because they arent fit enough, its due to other things. Number 1 is poor technique. If you want to improve, can I respectfully suggest that there are other places to look rather than at your heart rate and average speed data. Not trying to be smart, or negative. Just throwing some different ideas out there.

You must be getting pretty familiar with that hill after 47 times up ...know where to push, where to conserve.
Strava segment times are not a measure of fitness.
In my opinion.

jasonc
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Re: Cycling data. Dilemma

Postby jasonc » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:32 pm

Actually dcrainmaker rates the latest Apple watch HRM. I'm not an apple fan boy

Seriously. It’s about as perfect as you can get.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.dcr ... w.html/amp
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hamishm
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Re: Cycling data. Dilemma

Postby hamishm » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:54 am

jasonc wrote:Actually dcrainmaker rates the latest Apple watch HRM.

Not much use if it doesn't integrate with the rest of your setup though.

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Re: Cycling data. Dilemma

Postby jasonc » Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:34 pm

hamishm wrote:
jasonc wrote:Actually dcrainmaker rates the latest Apple watch HRM.

Not much use if it doesn't integrate with the rest of your setup though.

I agree. My comment was specifically on the HR component. Apple should stick to selling fruit
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hamishm
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Re: Cycling data. Dilemma

Postby hamishm » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:20 pm

hamishm wrote:
jasonc wrote:Actually dcrainmaker rates the latest Apple watch HRM.

Not much use if it doesn't integrate with the rest of your setup though.

In theory the Strava app could integrate with an app on the watch to get your HR and display it on a bar-mounted iPhone. Cadence could come from a bluetooth sensor. Then no Garmin or HR strap required.

There's already a Strava watch app but it doesn't look like it syncs with the phone app. https://www.strava.com/apple-watch

jasonc
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Re: Cycling data. Dilemma

Postby jasonc » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:54 pm

hamishm wrote:
hamishm wrote:
jasonc wrote:Actually dcrainmaker rates the latest Apple watch HRM.

Not much use if it doesn't integrate with the rest of your setup though.

In theory the Strava app could integrate with an app on the watch to get your HR and display it on a bar-mounted iPhone. Cadence could come from a bluetooth sensor. Then no Garmin or HR strap required.

There's already a Strava watch app but it doesn't look like it syncs with the phone app. https://www.strava.com/apple-watch


Using your Phone whilst riding will get you a nice fine in most states. Just buy a bike computer
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Calvin27
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Re: Cycling data. Dilemma

Postby Calvin27 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:08 pm

Imo OP is overthinking this too much.

Just take a glance at the apple watch while on a ride? Honestly who uses multiple streams of instantaneous data and actually makes a decision on hard efforts? Generally I go for the following metrics:
- Speed if going to time improvements - because I know what speed I should do at each section to beat my time.
- HRM for training (but also use this for group rides so that I don't blow up and get left behind).
- Cadence - I ditched cadence sensors - I firmly believe that at a non-pro level after a few goes on cadence sensor you can generally tell what your comfortable cadence is and whether you are grinding and should be spinning more.

My 2c, get a proper bike computer and HRM that talks to it (something cheap like a mio velo).
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