650b: hype?

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Bendo
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Re: 650b: hype?

Postby Bendo » Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:20 pm

Interesting. The Kumo forks have less rake than a conventional rando fork, more like a standard road fork, so I was concerned they would have toe-overlap. I have a bike with a similarly raked fork (57cm frame) and it definitely does have overlap. But thinking about it now, it has 27" (ISO630) rims, so there we might have yet another reason to go 650b! Less chance of overlap that bigger wheel sizes maybe?

Most guys on group rides wouldn't even know what they were looking at. The narrow-minded dickheadery I've encountered from most roadies about my bikes (vintage steel, non-700c wheels, mudguards) means I just can't bothered anymore. Not surprised you kept up with them and great retort too! b

robHflyte
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Re: 650b: hype?

Postby robHflyte » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:34 pm

certainly different riding in group rides, a bit too much high heart rate and chest beating for me really, I usually ride along a few weeks before a big ride as forced speed training.
But I am thinking of organising an Audax no drop ride soon, one to get Latestarter over his first 300 and also as a way of getting those that may be a little apprehensive of riding 100 or more feeling confident that they can do it. Average moving speed will be in the low 20s, very similar to a BUAF I think.
My Kumo frame is 61cm, I should go measure the rake, it certainly works well with heavily loaded and unloaded front bag so whatever it is, it is fine.

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Thoglette
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Re: 650b: hype?

Postby Thoglette » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:54 pm

Bendo wrote:g But thinking about it now, it has 27" (ISO630) rims, so there we might have yet another reason to go 650b! Less chance of overlap that bigger wheel sizes maybe?

630 + 2 x 32mm = 694 (almost 700C). To match that you need 55mm tyres on your 650b (Iso 584).

The challenge is brakes - you need 23mm more reach in the same frame/forks
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Bendo
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Re: 650b: hype?

Postby Bendo » Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:53 pm

Thoglette wrote:
Bendo wrote:g But thinking about it now, it has 27" (ISO630) rims, so there we might have yet another reason to go 650b! Less chance of overlap that bigger wheel sizes maybe?

630 + 2 x 32mm = 694 (almost 700C). To match that you need 55mm tyres on your 650b (Iso 584).

The challenge is brakes - you need 23mm more reach in the same frame/forks


Sorry I meant on separate bikes designed for their respective wheel sizes, not just putting smaller wheels in a bigger frame. b

Virgil Walker
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Re: 650b: hype?

Postby Virgil Walker » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:26 am

Just a follow up:
Haven't used 650b. Have used Compass Bon Jon Pass 35 mm Extralight and Stampede Pass 32 mm Extralight (both are 700c) for some time now on road, gravel, and Audax. Best tyres I've used. I prefer the BJPs: I've done my fastest 200s on them, they're excellent on gravel and in wet. Long lasting and only get punctures after about 4-5000 km IME. I get around 7000 km out of the SP XLs. They're expensive, but better than anything else I've used.

robHflyte
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Re: 650b: hype?

Postby robHflyte » Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:12 am

I find I get increased punctures above 60psi. I've had the Barlow Pass on my bike for over 10,000km and I'm finding more punctures now only because I now ride in an area with a a lot of heavy trucks, pulling out tiny wires constantly. I'm now riding on grass and dirt away from the road to reduce the risk of punctures. But I think I should get a new set, they are getting a bit thin.

Virgil Walker wrote:Just a follow up:
Haven't used 650b. Have used Compass Bon Jon Pass 35 mm Extralight and Stampede Pass 32 mm Extralight (both are 700c) for some time now on road, gravel, and Audax. Best tyres I've used. I prefer the BJPs: I've done my fastest 200s on them, they're excellent on gravel and in wet. Long lasting and only get punctures after about 4-5000 km IME. I get around 7000 km out of the SP XLs. They're expensive, but better than anything else I've used.

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darkelf921
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Re: 650b: hype?

Postby darkelf921 » Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:12 pm

The 650b tyres on the Cannondale Slate are good. Finding replacement tyres is close to impossible. When I first bought the Slate, I couldn't source replacement tyres and the tyres which come it hit get shredded very easily.
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owly
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Re: 650b: hype?

Postby owly » Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:09 pm

Virgil Walker wrote:Just a follow up:
Haven't used 650b. Have used Compass Bon Jon Pass 35 mm Extralight and Stampede Pass 32 mm Extralight (both are 700c) for some time now on road, gravel, and Audax. Best tyres I've used. I prefer the BJPs: I've done my fastest 200s on them, they're excellent on gravel and in wet. Long lasting and only get punctures after about 4-5000 km IME. I get around 7000 km out of the SP XLs. They're expensive, but better than anything else I've used.


Do you like the 35's best, mainly due to the extra width/contact over the 32's ?

Been running EL 32 on and off for the last year. Have to take it easy when downhilling over loose gravel w/hardpack underneath. Even more-so on off camber downhills, so the tire doesn't slide away.
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singlespeedscott
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Re: 650b: hype?

Postby singlespeedscott » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:03 am

I use the Stampede pass on my vintage steel and enjoy the ride and the look. However when riding a local gravel road, recently resurfaced with some really chunky stuff, I managed to pinch flat and put a small slash into the sidewall of the rear tyre, I was probably only doing 30km/hr when I did. I also was running 80psi in the rear. Any less pressure sees a lot more pinch flats and I find the tyre doesn't seem to climb as well for me. 60 seems fine in the front though.
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cameronp
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Re: 650b: hype?

Postby cameronp » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:51 pm

Anyone tried the WTB Horizon or Byway tyres yet? They're 650b x 47, the Horizon is slick and the Byway has side knobs. Looks like there are finally some more options than Compass in wide road-oriented 650b.

Been looking at building a gravel bike around the new Kinesis Tripster AT frame and going 650b is a definite possibility, but it's still a bit of a gamble. At least in 700c I know there are several tyres I get along with.

Virgil Walker
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Re: 650b: hype?

Postby Virgil Walker » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:00 pm

<<Do you like the 35's best, mainly due to the extra width/contact over the 32's ?>>
Yes. Better cornering on both gravel and asphalt. And I can discern no difference in aerodynamic resistance, though logically there must be greater resistance.

BTW I've never had any problems with sidewall damage on either Stampede Pass XL or BJP XL except once when I managed to drop a front tyre into an unexpected and unavoidable crack in the bitumen in the direction of travel on a bike path. It just scraped one cord of the carcass. IMO, any tyre would have suffered similarly. I still use the tyre.

I run the SP XL tyres at around 50-55 psi, tho I don't check them every ride and they sometimes go as low as 40 psi without much discernible difference in ride quality. Or not enough to worry me. I weigh 82 kg and often carry extra stuff for audax

At the recent LEL there were many bikes on Compass tyres (32-38 mm in 700c; 38-48 mm in 650b; and at least one, I think, on 54 mm 559).

Virgil Walker
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Re: 650b: hype?

Postby Virgil Walker » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:21 pm

PS If I get the chance, I'll get myself a set of 650b wheels even tho the biggest tyres I could run would be 38 mm. For my riding style and roads, I think they'd be excellent. (Disc brake frame.). If I could get a new frame, I'd set it up for 650b and 559 54 mm: the smaller wheels would be helpful for breaking down the bike for airline and train travel and I don't think I'd lose much or anything in speed.

FWIW What has caused me to DNF in audax events when it happened, has not been slower average speeds, but injury and/or bike damage due to falls, or adverse reactions to bad, inappropriate, or non-existent food. All of these are more to do with combinations of inexperience, lnsufficient planning or preparation, and fatigue. Beyond a certain level, the wheels and tyres probably don't make much difference. But wider more comfortable tyres might provide some benefits in comfort and stability and, with 650b and 559 wheels, slightly stronger wheels.

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