Torpedo 7 bike purchase - not very successful
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Torpedo 7 bike purchase - not very successful
Postby jandb » Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:04 am
Rec'd notice 1.5 wks later that customs was holding the bike & more paperwork was needed which I did the same day. Today I've rec'd an invoice from customs for $522 being $150 duty + $323 GST + $49 processing charge. Total cost of bike is now $A3600. That for a bike that I've now seen locally for $3,300 - $3,400. T7 will allow me to return the bike but I still burn the $600 in shipping & taxes.
I can now understand GST may be applicable given bike is > $1000 but Is it normal for duty to be charged on bike imports as well? Probably a combination of my mistake for being naive & their's for not being transparent enough. A warning to others considering buying online.
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Re: Torpedo 7 bike purchase - not very sucessful
Postby im_no_pro » Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:27 am
master6 wrote: Moderators are like Club Handicappers; I often think they are wrong, but I dont want the job.
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Re: Torpedo 7 bike purchase - not very sucessful
Postby silentbutdeadly » Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:14 am
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Re: Torpedo 7 bike purchase - not very sucessful
Postby AUbicycles » Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:40 pm
If you return the bike - you may be able to claim back the cost. Give customs a call - I have found the telephone staff at customs to be really friendly and helpful.
With the exemption, this is an alternative and you can claim back after paying and may mean you are excempt from the duty (but not GST).
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Re: Torpedo 7 bike purchase - not very sucessful
Postby biker jk » Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:45 pm
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Re: Torpedo 7 bike purchase - not very successful
Postby jandb » Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:23 pm
I'll try to get this lodged in the next day or so.
Again, if T7 is going to be serious about selling bikes into Aust. they should be providing some guidance & support re this process. Right now I can't recommend them to anyone for anything other than parts & accessories.
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Re: Torpedo 7 bike purchase - not very successful
Postby im_no_pro » Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:33 pm
jandb wrote:
Again, if T7 is going to be serious about selling bikes into Aust. they should be providing some guidance & support re this process. Right now I can't recommend them to anyone for anything other than parts & accessories.
Its front and centre right at the top of their Shipping & Delivery page.......
Currently, all Australian orders are shipped through Australian Post. Our goods are shipped from NZ.
Shipments sent outside NZ are sold exclusive of GST and may be subject to import duties and taxes, which may be levied once your shipment reaches your country.
For details of Customs charges please consult your own Customs authorities for the latest rates. Additional charges for customs clearance must be borne by you. Unfortunately, we have no control over these charges and cannot predict what they may be.
We are unable to reimburse any costs incurred regardless of the circumstances.
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Re: Torpedo 7 bike purchase - not very successful
Postby jandb » Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:41 pm
I wouldn't call that guidance & support - it's more of a disclaimer. How about some specific info re the duty. Is it payable for bikes or not? If so what rate? What customs forms need to be submitted & links to them. So far I've completed the N10 & B319 forms after talking to several customs people. Is there a Tariff Concession applicable? If so which one is it? Where does that go on the form? etcim_no_pro wrote:jandb wrote: Its front and centre right at the top of their Shipping & Delivery page.......
The internet is supposed to make purchasing goods cheaper & easier. I'm not an importer, I'm just a consumer. (I'm starting to sound like a professional whinger!).
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Re: Torpedo 7 bike purchase - not very successful
Postby mitzikatzi » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:24 pm
After "Uncle Jerry's" whinge at the start of the year I thought everyone would know fees and taxes apply on $1000+ purchases from overseas.
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Re: Torpedo 7 bike purchase - not very successful
Postby macca33 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:34 pm
T7 et al. make ample effort - as overseas vendors - to indicate that purchases may attract local import duties, etc. They have discharged their particular responsibility in making that (or similar ) statement. It is up to the consumer to make those inquiries with the local branch of Customs and in all reality, wouldn't that be a mandatory exercise for a person who is looking to spend thousands on a bicycle???
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Re: Torpedo 7 bike purchase - not very successful
Postby bianchi928 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:50 pm
It's pretty straight forward though. They can't list every country because didfferent countries have different taxes etc. It's up to the purchaser to investigate what their countries taxes and duties are.jandb wrote:I wouldn't call that guidance & support - it's more of a disclaimer. How about some specific info re the duty. Is it payable for bikes or not? If so what rate? What customs forms need to be submitted & links to them. So far I've completed the N10 & B319 forms after talking to several customs people. Is there a Tariff Concession applicable? If so which one is it? Where does that go on the form? etcim_no_pro wrote:jandb wrote: Its front and centre right at the top of their Shipping & Delivery page.......
The internet is supposed to make purchasing goods cheaper & easier. I'm not an importer, I'm just a consumer. (I'm starting to sound like a professional whinger!).
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Re: Torpedo 7 bike purchase - not very successful
Postby RonK » Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:05 pm
It's a New Zealand web site - why would you expect them to provide information about Australian customs regulations. This is pretty much the same information as would be shown on any international website.jandb wrote:I wouldn't call that guidance & support - it's more of a disclaimer. How about some specific info re the duty. Is it payable for bikes or not? If so what rate? What customs forms need to be submitted & links to them. So far I've completed the N10 & B319 forms after talking to several customs people. Is there a Tariff Concession applicable? If so which one is it? Where does that go on the form? etcim_no_pro wrote:jandb wrote: Its front and centre right at the top of their Shipping & Delivery page.......
The internet is supposed to make purchasing goods cheaper & easier. I'm not an importer, I'm just a consumer. (I'm starting to sound like a professional whinger!).
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Re: Torpedo 7 bike purchase - not very successful
Postby jasonc » Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:09 pm
I agree with the OP on this. It's a .com.au site. for Australia. a big banner/warning on the purchase page would help.bianchi928 wrote:It's pretty straight forward though. They can't list every country because didfferent countries have different taxes etc. It's up to the purchaser to
investigate what their countries taxes and duties are.
have seen a couple of threads on T7 and their bikes lately. it's obviously not clear enough.
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Re: Torpedo 7 bike purchase - not very successful
Postby jules21 » Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:03 pm
- on their shipping page
- on the shipping tab for the specific product
- when you purchase the product, on the shipping tab
it would be unfair to accuse them of concealing the additional charges. the OP seems to have failed to notice these warnings. i sympathise - i've done it - but T7 didn't design the complicated system of aus. govt. duties and charges.
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Re: Torpedo 7 bike purchase - not very successful
Postby silentbutdeadly » Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:30 pm
And watch the customers fly fly away...given that Wiggle and ProBikeit have .com.au pages too I'd reckon you have between buckley's and sod all chance of this happening.jasonc wrote:I agree with the OP on this. It's a .com.au site. for Australia. a big banner/warning on the purchase page would help.
Here's a question for the OP...has your bank also charged you for a foreign currency conversion fee or similar?
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Re: Torpedo 7 bike purchase - not very successful
Postby andione1983 » Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:22 pm
Sent from my Galaxy far far away....
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Re: Torpedo 7 bike purchase - not very successful
Postby cage » Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:57 pm
With that comment, i take it your in favor of foreign companys attempting to deceive the Australian consumer?silentbutdeadly wrote:And watch the customers fly fly away...jasonc wrote:I agree with the OP on this. It's a .com.au site. for Australia. a big banner/warning on the purchase page would help.
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Re: Torpedo 7 bike purchase - not very successful
Postby AUbicycles » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:57 pm
Perhaps my comments will be a good balance.
For retailers that are obviously overseas retailers, the GST and Duty on goods over the $1000 mark is accepted (though for first time buyers they may be surprised). It seems that T7 may have provided information and it could be fair to say that the customers should read it. Even as a regular-joe customer, it is still seen as an import in the eyes of customs.
However - for companies with a .com.au there can be uncertainty from where the goods are shipped - it is worth having the clarity particularly if it is reasonable for the customer to assume that goods may be be sent from within Australia.
Leading on from this - retailers don't want to turn off customers by giving them reasons not to buy, and this could be a reason.
If shipping is additional - a subtle way to make it obvious is to have Shipping from NZ : $80
Likewise the shipping origin can still be listed within the final tally if there is free shipping. Shipping from NZ : Free/Included
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Re: Torpedo 7 bike purchase - not very successful
Postby eeksll » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:35 pm
I have to admit the .com.au extension might have tripped me up on other sites (I know torpedo7 is a NZ site so I wouldn't have for this site). I have previously used exactly that indication to see if its an australian store or not (clearly thats not quite enough).
At the same time in my general browsing of torpedo7 i often see that they state its shipped from NZ and the customs warning. They do also state this warning on the shipping checkout page, not in fine print but not in bold either. So i guess its a bit of they COULD be more explicit but they could also be alot less explicit.
i do feel for the buyer but from a practical point of view it would be very difficult for websites to know everything about every other country.
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Re: Torpedo 7 bike purchase - not very successful
Postby eeksll » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:42 pm
the main issue with this is they are not being explicit and while not "deceiving" every customer it would still "deceive" some customers. If they want to make it clear its not very hard to make it very explicit.AUbicycles wrote:..Leading on from this - retailers don't want to turn off customers by giving them reasons not to buy, and this could be a reason.
If shipping is additional - a subtle way to make it obvious is to have Shipping from NZ : $80
Likewise the shipping origin can still be listed within the final tally if there is free shipping. Shipping from NZ : Free/Included
"deceiving" is a bit of a strong word as I do believe its buyer responsibility to know but its the best word i can think o. All the laws and regulations is Australia may have just made us an easily "deceivable" lot.
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Re: Torpedo 7 bike purchase - not very successful
Postby jandb » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:43 pm
So buying from T7 is no different from buying from Wiggle or c r c in terms of taxes, import process & even delivery times.
I think T7's actions are mainly reasonable & commercial but I also think they could do better to assist Aust customers with the entire customs process. I presume that Aust is their 2nd biggest market after NZ so given they're competing with Wiggle/c r c etc its in their commercial interest to understand the Aust import process & assist customers through it rather than shrug their shoulders & tell me they can't assist with the Aust import process and that I'm on my own.
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Re: Torpedo 7 bike purchase - not very successful
Postby AUbicycles » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:20 am
For example in a delivery I received, UPS did the customs clearance and although I had already paid the complete door to door shipping, UPS Australia added a local surcharge (on top of customs duty and GST) which I disputed and they conveniently ignored me.
The extent to which an overseas retailer can help is by providing information... before it would become uncompetitive. As a customer purchasing overseas, this is simply something to take into account and while in your case it was not obvious that it was being sent from overseas, the only way around this is the old fashioned approach of buying from the local bike shop.
In 2010 I published The Ultimate Guide: Shopping for bicycles and cycling gear online for BNA and it covers exactly these things, the pros and cons of buying online. A very general remark is that if you are spending a few thousand dollars, it is probably worth buying from a local bicycle shop if you are only paying a few hundred dollars more - you (should) get fitting, warranty, often a free service and also good prices on accessories. Where online purchases can present an advantage is where the price is significantly lower and you accept losing warranty (or being hard to claim) plus potential difficulties if there are order and product problems - such as returning to the retailer.
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Re: Torpedo 7 bike purchase - not very successful
Postby silentbutdeadly » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:39 am
If the average Australian consumer is so willfully ignorant of the realities of online shopping at suppliers based overseas...then I see no major harm in a little consumer exploitation. If nothing else...they'll soon learn.cage wrote:With that comment, i take it your in favor of foreign companys attempting to deceive the Australian consumer?silentbutdeadly wrote:And watch the customers fly fly away...jasonc wrote:I agree with the OP on this. It's a .com.au site. for Australia. a big banner/warning on the purchase page would help.
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Re: Torpedo 7 bike purchase - not very successful
Postby jules21 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:47 am
the other problem is T7 has no direct influence over it. sometimes customs neglect to impose charges. there is the risk of T7 accidentally misrepresenting customs charges - for which they may be held liable. i think their approach of pointing customers to customs for further info/advice is reasonable. but in the end - it's up to customers to judge whether they believe it's good service or not. there are alternatives.AUbicycles wrote:For customs clearance the problem with helping too much is it becomes more expensive - specifically if they have a delivery company clearing it, the customer may have a more understandable format for paying, though may also pay extra.
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Re: Torpedo 7 bike purchase - not very successful
Postby brawlo » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:58 am
This doesn't always work. I had a new track frame sent to me. Seller sent it to me for postage cost only which was $120 and thus listed the cost as such. Customs wouldn't release the frame until I proved that actual cost was less than $1000. Frame cost to him is $US350 and he retails them for $US900, so it took a bit of tooing and froing to get the frame released.andione1983 wrote:I know in the past when I purchase stuff from Hong kong and so on if the items worth over $1000 they put the value as less... So maybe $100 bux... Obviously that's why I have never been stung yet from them... It seems wiggle and t7 etc.. Put the exact price you pay for an item on the paperwork so there for you get stung gst
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