Perth to Norseman

[the_real_jimbob]

Looking at this route is it possible to avoid Great Eastern Highway (94)? There is a Hyden - Norseman Hwy which is gravel. I have a carbon road bike frame - would this be road be possible on a carbon frame with the right tyres? Now I have Gatorskins but they don't look like they'll go well on gravel.

Or would it be better to buy a Aluminum or steel bike?

Other concern is accomodation. It looks to be camping only, which would make a carbon bike difficult to carry camping equiptment. And ideas how I could carry the equiptment on the bike, there's no pannier mounts etc.

This would be a round trip. Or if anyone might know the region to suggest an alternative route?

Cheers.

[Baalzamon]

When I did Esperance to Perth via Norseman - Hyden. I had 38mm tyres on. Most of the gravel was beautiful, BUT as soon as the council area changed so the the road. OMGosh we were doing 5-10km with very loose and wave gravel. I did it on a CX steel bike, ie Masi Special CX which I had panniers on it. Took 2 nights to cross Norseman to Hyden and carried about 16l of water.

[just4tehhalibut]

I snapped a steel frame on that road years ago, it got rough in places. Even if it were to be suddenly fully bitumenised you'd still have the burden of distance, 300km with no support and you'd have to carry your own water enough to get you safely across. Every litre is a sloppy kilo. That's quite a bit of weight and your frame, forks, racks and wheels need to be within spec, able to take it. I'd rather enjoy the ride across than risk walking out of the bush because the bike or components broke.

[Aushiker]

James completed a ride from Darwin to Perth on a carbon frame bike (see the Touring Australia sub-forum) including the Gibb River Road so frankly I wouldn't exactly be getting over concerned about the Hyden-Norseman Road other than the section within the Shire of Kondinin which was rough as, as Baalzamon mentions. That was however in 2010 so it may have improved or got worse James used an Extrawheel Voyager trailer. I am not sure what tyre size he used but.

You can read about our ride from Esperance to Perth which included the Norseman-Hyden road here if you are interested.











I am curious but as to what where you are riding to as you seem to be planning on getting from town to town each day.

Andrew

[the_real_jimbob]

thankyou for all the replies i appreciate your advice.

When I did Esperance to Perth via Norseman - Hyden. I had 38mm tyres on. Most of the gravel was beautiful, BUT as soon as the council area changed so the the road. OMGosh we were doing 5-10km with very loose and wave gravel. I did it on a CX steel bike, ie Masi Special CX which I had panniers on it. Took 2 nights to cross Norseman to Hyden and carried about 16l of water.

at the moment I have 20 spoke 20mm aksium road rims with those aero spokes. I'm guessing 38mm tyres would fit, what width rim did you have? do you think a wheel with more spokes would be required?

i had thought of buying a CX but at the time the shops didn't have many to test ride. i regret buying the road bike as i realise i want to do more touring type riding than any sort of racing.

I snapped a steel frame on that road years ago, it got rough in places. Even if it were to be suddenly fully bitumenised you'd still have the burden of distance, 300km with no support and you'd have to carry your own water enough to get you safely across. Every litre is a sloppy kilo. That's quite a bit of weight and your frame, forks, racks and wheels need to be within spec, able to take it. I'd rather enjoy the ride across than risk walking out of the bush because the bike or components broke.

how much water would/did you take? i don't see how i could load up the carbon bike with water but the trailer might work.

I am curious but as to what where you are riding to as you seem to be planning on getting from town to town each day.

Andrew

want to catch up with friends in norseman so was going to ride perth to norseman and back for a short holiday

great website and those photos are helpful thanks for posting.

[barefoot]

Looking at this route is it possible to avoid Great Eastern Highway (94)? There is a Hyden - Norseman Hwy which is gravel. I have a carbon road bike frame - would this be road be possible on a carbon frame with the right tyres? Now I have Gatorskins but they don't look like they'll go well on gravel.

I drove that road years ago (1996) in an old Toyota Corona.

There were frequent long stretches of deep sand that I had no option but to hit fast, because I didn't think I'd get through in a 2WD car if I wasn't carrying momentum. When it wasn't sand, it was often just two rocky wheel ruts in the scrub.

When I stopped to check the oil, there was sand on top of the engine and all through the engine bay.

It's possible that there's been a whole lot of road work done there since I came through, but it's also possible that there hasn't. I would not take a road bike anywhere near that track. Frame material isn't your concern... I just wouldn't go there with anything smaller than 50mm tyres.

It's also a bloody long way; certainly further than a normal person could ride in a day, especially in that terrain. Like, the dirt/sand section was a couple of hundred km. You'll need to carry your own supplies, including water.

It was an exciting start to my drive back east from Perth, attempting to kill the car before we even really started. Would be a good test ride before attempting a epic desert trek. But it's certainly not a sensible highway avoidance route nor shortcut to Norseman.

tim

[Aushiker]

It's possible that there's been a whole lot of road work done there since I came through, but it's also possible that there hasn't. I would not take a road bike anywhere near that track. Frame material isn't your concern... I just wouldn't go there with anything smaller than 50mm tyres.

Mate you need to read the thread first and remember that 1996 was a long-time ago . It is hardly a serious outback adventure now days with most of the road in pretty good hardpack condition as of 2010, a reasonable amount of traffic and it can be easily ridden in three days and maybe even two days on a light bike with a fit rider.

Regards
Andrew

[Aushiker]

at the moment I have 20 spoke 20mm aksium road rims with those aero spokes. I'm guessing 38mm tyres would fit, what width rim did you have? do you think a wheel with more spokes would be required?

What bike is it? I would want wheels with more spokes for sure ... 32 would be nice. Frame clearance and wheel will determine how wide you can go with the tyres.

Andrew

[the_real_jimbob]

at the moment I have 20 spoke 20mm aksium road rims with those aero spokes. I'm guessing 38mm tyres would fit, what width rim did you have? do you think a wheel with more spokes would be required?

What bike is it? I would want wheels with more spokes for sure ... 32 would be nice. Frame clearance and wheel will determine how wide you can go with the tyres.

Andrew

this one http://www.lapierrebicycles.com/bikes-r ... ensium-300" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
from a quick visual inspection there's not much clearance in the front fork - looks just under 10mm on each side of the rim.

[the_real_jimbob]

I drove that road years ago (1996) in an old Toyota Corona.

sounds like an adventure back then
i certainly need to find more suitable wheels and tyres

[Baalzamon]

Sell the roadie and look for a CX bike with pannier mounts or get a touring bike.
CX is more versatile than a dedicated tourer
Chances are that your bike can fit no larger than a 28mm tyre. Thought about if your going to carry a phone/gps and how you will keep it charged?

[moosterbounce]

If you leave today, you'd be there tomorrow with this tail wind!!

Seriously, get a CX bike. They are fun!! Quite a few don't come with rack mounts though so shop carefully.

Chant..."new bike new bike new bike"

[barefoot]

from a quick visual inspection there's not much clearance in the front fork - looks just under 10mm on each side of the rim.

The fork is almost certainly the least of your problems - the real clearance problems are usually at the chainstays (and sometimes the seat stays / brake bridge). For some reason, it's highly fashionable right now to build bikes that physically can't take tyres bigger than 25mm at the rear.

That and the fact that you can't (easily) mount a rack on this, so you'll have a hard time carrying the stuff you'll need.

Nice bike... just not right for the kind of ride you're talking about.

tim

[the_real_jimbob]

Chances are that your bike can fit no larger than a 28mm tyre. Thought about if your going to carry a phone/gps and how you will keep it charged?

i will get someone to check but seems about right now that i look at it closer.
should be ok without a gps on this trip so probably just carry a spare battery for the phone. its a dumbphone doesn't use much battery.

from a quick visual inspection there's not much clearance in the front fork - looks just under 10mm on each side of the rim.

The fork is almost certainly the least of your problems - the real clearance problems are usually at the chainstays (and sometimes the seat stays / brake bridge). For some reason, it's highly fashionable right now to build bikes that physically can't take tyres bigger than 25mm at the rear.

yes you're right - the chainstays have about 10mm clearance too with about the same on the seat stays.

looks like it's "new bike new bike new bike new bike"

If you leave today, you'd be there tomorrow with this tail wind!!

Seriously, get a CX bike. They are fun!! Quite a few don't come with rack mounts though so shop carefully.

haha yes bom says dangerous wind gusts - as long as tail wind gusts it's still game on

i dont plan to race CX and i can't ride fast even on a road bike, what advantage would a CX be over a touring bike?

[Baalzamon]

CX are lighter, easy to change wheelset that take from 20-28mm to 28-42mm. They can be an everyday commuter, wet weather bike, go dirt, go road.
Touring bike heavier, more robust. Can fit more than 2 bottle cages typically

Surly Crosscheck has pannier mounts front & rear
Kona Jake appears to have them

Shop around. Will be hard to pick a ready to go touring bike off the shelf. Will most likely need to order it in, you may find stock of cx bikes with pannier mounts in lbs around town.

[the_real_jimbob]

Shop around. Will be hard to pick a ready to go touring bike off the shelf. Will most likely need to order it in, you may find stock of cx bikes with pannier mounts in lbs around town.

there's some lbs with a few CX nearby so will go test ride and have a chat with them.

but how's this for a touring bike off the shelf, Tout Terrain Silkroad


http://www.en.tout-terrain.de/fileadmin ... ev_2.0.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

there's some lbs in sydney and melbourne with these for test ride. do you think any lbs in perth might have one? web search didnt turn up anything here.

looks good to me
- low maintenance gearing, just change oil
- sturdy rack for carrying water etc upto 40kg. rack has mount points for rear lights.
- 3 mounts for water bottles
- braze ons for dynamo lighting wiring
- support for fat tyres (60mm tyre clearance)
- around 13.5kg - not too bad well under the limit for packing on a plane

only not sure about the gear shifter being in a horizontal position, would definately want to test ride one of these before paying 4K - well thats eastern states price expecting wa price to be more than that

[RonK]

The Silkroad is a touring bike of the highest order, but you are unlikely to find one in Perth I think.

But you may find a Vivente World Randonneur at Quantum Cycles in North Perth. The VWR is without doubt the best value touring bike currently on sale in Australia and there are many owners on this forum.

The VWR thread starts here and continues here.

[Baalzamon]

The pictures that Aushiker posted, I'm in picture there putting more sunscreen on my legs at a conveniently located concrete bench and you can see my Masi Speciale CX there fully loaded up. I have changed aspects and gear now so looks a bit different.

Yes the VWR would be a suitable bike for touring and fairly cheaply priced for a touring bike. That Tout de Terrain you would be very hard pressed to find one, most bike shops if you asked would stare at you blindly until you told them/showed them a picture.

Other potential touring bikes below
Thorn Raven Nomad
Surly Long Haul Trucker
Van Nichols have a range of titanium ones with rohloff drive trains
So if you go for a touring bike you have the choice of a derailleur style gear system, or a gearbox style system provided the rear end is 135mm. Also there is the new pinion style gearbox located at the bottom bracket which is even more pricier.

[Phil]

The Silkroad is a touring bike of the highest order, but you are unlikely to find one in Perth I think.

But you may find a Vivente World Randonneur at Quantum Cycles in North Perth. The VWR is without doubt the best value touring bike currently on sale in Australia and there are many owners on this forum.

The VWR thread starts here and continues here.

Was in Quantum a couple of weeks ago, and a gent was picking his brand new VWR up, damn good spec for the money. Even had a couple in stock, didn't look at sizing though.

[uglybob]

Wembley Cycles carry Focus and Specialized CX bikes in stock.

some of those Focus CX's look sweet! wouldn't mind having one in the house if i had the room. pretty good value for money as well.

[wellington_street]

Did you end up going jimbob?

I'm not nearly as adventurous on the bike as you guys but I am keen to drive it in a 2WD at some point. If you can get through on a bicycle then a 2WD would certainly be able to make it.

[Aushiker]

For those interested in riding from Hyden through to Norseman, Andrew O'Brien and Peter Houston have an update on on the conditions from their Brisbane to Perth ride in April 2014.



Andrew