Training Tips to increase average speed / distance

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Training Tips to increase average speed / distance

Postby gururug » Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:13 pm

So i've clocked up 320 kms over three weeks (about 100kms a week in three to four rides).

I do two routes 1 short (21kms) and one longer (36kms).

My training log indicates that I average about 25.5 kms an hour on both. I thought my average speed would drop on longer rides. I know performance is a personal thing.

I am riding for weight loss but I also want to improve my average speed.

-The question is.......

What should I focus on from here.......

I was planning on increasing my distances (50kms, 70kms, 100kms etc.) but maybe to lift my average speed I need to do more interval training.

Can anyone give me some ideas omn what to do maybe;


-1-2 ride 50-70kms (distance)
-1 ride recovery
-1-2 rides interval

Or is it counter productive to work on both at once? Better to work on speed before distance etc.?

Any ideas?
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by BNA » Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:45 pm

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Postby mikesbytes » Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:45 pm

I've been asking myself a similar question.

1. What are the limitations that prevent you from riding faster?

2. What are the limitations that prevent you from riding further?

The answer to these questions tell you what you need to improve and then it can be determined what to do.

BTW, what kind of interval training are you doing?

Have a nice day
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Postby europa » Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:59 pm

You'll do better if you mix interval work with long, steady riding.

The advice about interval training and weight loss is fairly new and possibly controversial, but as interval training is good for your general cycling anyway, I'd include it. You don't have to be manic about it - in my case, I have a very undulating ride near here and by going up and down those hills, I'm given a quasi interval ride. Not the real thing sure, but it's a more interesting ride than staring at a computer and those ruddy hills have to be good for something.

The long, slow ride should be well within your aerobic range and that heart rate depends on you own personal max and your own body. It's been discussed before so we probably don't want to go into it here.

Frankly, the thing against training on your bike is the length of time needed. You talk about various distances, but unless you are unemployed or have no family responsibilities (try being a single Dad for restrictions), you're going to have trouble finding time to do humungous distances.

Now, for me :D

My trial in the Family Fraud has been put back ... again. That's what's kept me from being too serious up to now (emotional stress isn't conducive to stuffing about with training regimes I'm afraid), but at the moment, I'm in the mood to put put some effort into my own weight loss so I'm going to set myself up into a program.

Looking at my life realistically, I'm not going to be able to commit to more than an hour a day, every day.

So, my base ride will be an hour ride. As these are relatively short, I'll make them 'interval' rides, along my hilly route. I'll work out some mix of how hard I push them - some days a lower effort than others.

On days when I can't ride (usually when I've got the lass with me), I'll do half an hour on the stationary bike, aiming for an hour but I know how the boredom hits. So, realistically, I'll do a minimum of half an hour with a cadence over 100 and a heart rate around 140.

Wednesday nights and friday nights, my son has soccer training. This gives me an hour and a half for a ride. Wednesdays will be a definite though with daylight saving ending, I'll no doubt be reviewing my lighting. The fridays probably won't happen - for one of them, I'll have my daughter with me (and you don't ride at night, in winter, with a 6 year old on the tag along - sitting in the car with a bucket of chips works though) and on the alternate friday, my girlfriend has shown a tendency to want to see me, it being the only evening in a fortnight we get on our own.

Once a fortnight, on the weekend when I'm bratless, I'll do a 'long' ride - 70km +. I'm aiming for 100km - the trick is finding a decent route.

So, I'll aim at an hour a day minimum - hilly terrain ie interval work. I can mix these up with the fixie - that is a far more intense ride than the geared bike so even on a flattish route, I'll get a good workout.
Once a fortnight, a long ride - taken at an aerobic pace (under 140 where practical).
Once a week (wednesday night), an hour and a half up near my lactic threshold (140 - 150).
If I can sneak longer rides in during the week, I'll try to make them in the 'fat burning' range (130-140 for me).
Half hour plus on the trainer any day I hit the streets.

BUT, I'll also have one day a week off the bike to recover.
If I've worked hard the day before, I'll take the next day quietly eg, after the 'long' ride, I'll do a recovery ride - on the flat and low HR.

Diet wise. The red vino will be cut back but not given up - realistic goals are what I'm looking at, not something an olympian will aspire to. I'll serve myself smaller serves even if that means wasting food - at the moment, the lad and I tend to eat everything cooked (with a portion frozen for reheated meals) and that means that sometimes I over eat. My diet isn't bad otherwise and I'm not into lollies and snacks and things to any silly extent. Those first two changes will do for a start and once I've got myself sorted and had a chance to review the results, I'll be having a chat with Mike about other changes to make, but I may not need them. At 50, I won't get skinny in a hurry so all I'm looking at achieving is a decent look in a cycling top.

So that's me. Thoughts and suggestions are welcome. Remember, I'm trying to fit a regime that'll help into my lifestyle and am not in a postition to take up a full on training regime - being a single parent means you can be restricted after school (no-one to look after the shop while you're out), even with a 14 year old. Getting a job will affect things too, some money to spend for starters and a chance to commute (which I reckon is one of the best fitness devices ever invented). I know this post is long (so Tuco hasn't read it), but I reckon that by sharing our thoughts and patterns, we get a better insight into how to fit cycling into our lives and to be honest, that's what it's really all about.

Cheers
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Postby moosterbounce » Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:13 pm

Yay Richard. Good thought procecss.

Your eating/exercise plans are basically what I go with. I am a card-carrying chocoholic and will never deny it. It is my downfall and the thing I go to when I have a good day, a bad day, or an indifferent day!! I still eat chocolate, but I converted to dark choc which, as well as being better for me, I found it richer so only 2 pieces was sufficient (not a couple of rows :oops: ). It was a little thing, but made a difference to me.

I reckon if you change your diet to be realistic, it will become "normal" very quickly and you won't think you are on a diet.

I still get pizza cravings though!! I gave in to them a couple of times, but didn't enjoy the pizza as I found it so fatty!! My tastebuds have changed :)

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Postby gururug » Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:30 pm

THanks guys / gals, excellent responses.


Limitations to riding faster;

-Cardio fitness
-Muscle but particularly joint strength
(take it I need to do weights/cross training and more cardio work)


Limitations to riding further;

-My ONE bidon only lasts this time/distance I have a very small frame
so it barely fits one bottle. (guess I might need a hydro back pack)
-Time (current rides take 1:40 for 36kms)
-Mentality (don't know if i'm capable - this should be easy to test)

Mike I was beginning to think that your short posts were an attempt to pip Richard in the post count but your comments and Richards have both been very valuable in different ways.


Conclusion

1. Improve sustained cardio fitness
2. Improve joint / muscle strength
3. Try going beyound my pre-conceived "distance and speed limitations"
4. Carry more water
5. Put as much emphasis on intake or rather "non-intake" as much at outtake. (by this I mean don't eat crap NOT don't eat MUCH)


My current goal is top average 30kms/h over 36kms and to ride 100kms.


Cheers again dudes and dudettes.


Mike is there a shoulder in the RNP (i can't remember) or do you share the road? Regarding intervals I pretty mich stick with richies philosphy and push up / down hills then recover / spin out on the flats. If I have more juice for the return leg I lift it from about 70% effort to 98-84% effort.
Last edited by gururug on Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby sogood » Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:59 pm

Ride faster to go faster...

Obviously with greater leg strength, you'll be able to go faster. But the problem is that you may go lazy and just enjoy the slower and more relaxed speed. So I'd say that you should try to push yourself in the form of intervals. Try to do repeats of 1min at a speed that is 2kph faster than what you normal do on a particular stretch of road. And then over time increase that to 2-3mins, then 5mins, 10mins and so on, then it'll become your natural speed for that grade of road. Once done, you can again push yourself for another 2kph and repeat the process.
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Postby mikesbytes » Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:27 pm

RNP on Sunday mornings is reasonably quiet. Sogood and I will be doing it again next Sunday morning, taking a slightly harder route than the one taken last Sunday.

How come the average speed for the shorter ride is the same as the longer ride, is it due to the particular routes? Push HARDER on that shorter ride. Make your legs hurt, particully in the last 5k, its pedal to the metal - take no prisioners riding.

By Muscle but particualarly joint strength, do you mean the muscles near the knee joints, such as the quads?

Weight lifting will improve your muscular strength, I know I'm a weight lifter, however you can improve your muscular strength by riding more and doing things like sprinting up a hill on 100% or beyond.

Cardio fitness. Could you add a longer rider once a week, say 80k, by leaving really really early on Sunday Morning.

What type of bike do you have? Why doesn't it fit two bottles in the frame. Alternatives are hydration pack, bottles that attach to the back of the seat, bottles that attach to the handle bars. A tap on route.

Interval training, heres some tech info

Have a nice day
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Postby gururug » Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:37 pm

Speaking of RNP being quiet, the last time I was out there I almost collided head on with a couple of moose.

:o :shock: :? :( ........... :P but .....that another story
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Postby LuckyPierre » Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:42 am

sogood wrote:Ride faster to go faster...

A long time ago, I was given the same advice (only with regard to running) when I wanted to step up from being a 'jogger'. The most effective thing to do to increase speed is to increase speed, so the intensity of your training rides - intervals are the best way to go, given that we all have time constraints. Like Richard, I pick more hilly rides twice a week, throw in a quasi time-trial (I don't nick over to Perth for them :wink: ) and longer rides on weekends - 50 km+ on Saturday and a Club event (plus a gentler afternoon ride) on Sunday.
The club events are a good measure of speed - much better than your speedo. It's relatively easy to post a strong constant speed (terrain willing), but the fun and games that go on in a group ride are a better test of your ability.
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Postby merida901 » Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:24 am

I mainly ride Track so i concentrate mainly on leg strength and speed. The exrecise's i do for these go something like this.

Leg Strength
Standing Starts x 5 with 2 min rest
Hill Sprins x 5 with 2 min rest

Leg Speed
HCLR 10x 10sec every 2 min with 10 min rest (High Cadance Low Resistance)
Down Hill Sprints x 5 with 2 min rest

Efforts/Recover
PAP Sprints x 5 (Done on a Wind Trainer)
Ladder Sprints x 5 (10 sec Sprint 50 sec Recov, 20 sec Sprint 40Sec Recover, 30 sec Sprint 30 sec Recover, 20 sec Sprint 40 sec Recover, 10 sec Sprint 50 sec Recover)
Ramp Ups x 5 (Ramp Up effort every 30 sec for 3 min on the same gear)

That's the stuff i do on the bike. I also do Gym work (ala Mikesbytes) which is mainly weights for a bit better upper body strength and lots of leg stuff for lower back, leg, and hip strentgh.

If you would like any extra info please let me know. Just remember Being STRONG in the core and hips is just as important as being STRONG in the legs and lungs.
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Postby tuco » Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:28 am

sogood wrote:Ride faster to go faster...

Obviously with greater leg strength, you'll be able to go faster. But the problem is that you may go lazy and just enjoy the slower and more relaxed speed. So I'd say that you should try to push yourself in the form of intervals. Try to do repeats of 1min at a speed that is 2kph faster than what you normal do on a particular stretch of road. And then over time increase that to 2-3mins, then 5mins, 10mins and so on, then it'll become your natural speed for that grade of road. Once done, you can again push yourself for another 2kph and repeat the process.


Simple and it works. I went from a 26km/h rider (on my own) to a 30+km/h rider. Only just today I was happily cruising along at 32km/h and thinking how my breathing was only as heavy as walking up a flight of stairs. My HRM has packed it in so I don't know what my heart rate was but it wasn't very high.

It's taken about 5 months but as someone else said get involved with a club or do some group rides. I get more motivated to ride when I know I'm meeting up with a few other people. I don't like riding on my own anymore.
Racing is a great way to improve. You'll always work harder in a race than in training.
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Postby sogood » Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:49 am

mikesbytes wrote:RNP on Sunday mornings is reasonably quiet. Sogood and I will be doing it again next Sunday morning, taking a slightly harder route than the one taken last Sunday.

Have I committed to that harder direction ride? Looks like that I am being coerced into this... I am hoping for rain on Sun to allow me to miss it with honour! :P
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Postby LuckyPierre » Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:18 pm

sogood wrote: ... Looks like that I am being coerced into this...


So, good! :P
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Postby sogood » Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:24 pm

I think I'll die doing the Audley-Waterfall direction! :cry:

Might have to bring out my lighter wheels again...
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Postby mikesbytes » Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:31 pm

sogood wrote:I think I'll die doing the Audley-Waterfall direction! :cry:

Might have to bring out my lighter wheels again...


Your already 16kg lighter than me and 26kg lighter that Huw.

Someone like Geoff M will ride and you'll be waiting at the tops of the hills anyway.
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Postby rdp_au » Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:32 pm

I think I remember that piece of road from the Royal National Park triathlon from many years ago. We did the swim (1.5km) in the river above the weir, and then got on the bike and rode *UP* to the Park entrance and down the highway to Waterfall. It was tough.

Do they still run the RNP Triathlon?

Rds,

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Postby sogood » Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:37 pm

mikesbytes wrote:Your already 16kg lighter than me and 26kg lighter that Huw.

Someone like Geoff M will ride and you'll be waiting at the tops of the hills anyway.

Coercion and baiting... Very very nasty! :P
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Postby mikesbytes » Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:40 pm

sogood wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:Your already 16kg lighter than me and 26kg lighter that Huw.

Someone like Geoff M will ride and you'll be waiting at the tops of the hills anyway.

Coercion and baiting... Very very nasty! :P


Can't let you syc your self out. Next Sunday will make it a hat trick.

PS I'm gone as per email, call me if your interested.

Have a nice day
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