Kwinana Fwy PSP upgrade

[scirocco]

The West Australian this morning has a notice for contractors to express interest in the upgrade of the PSP from Thelma St to the Narrows. Reconstruction to 500mm depth with concrete slabs and re-stabilisation of the river wall is included. The PSP is to be realigned under the Thelma St footbridge. They are calling it a "minor capital project" but sounds as if it is going to be properly done, not just a lick of paint type job. Closes on the 4th of October.

Good to see, that section is the worst on the Kwinana Freeway PSP.

[Pushy]

"Concrete slabs"? must be some sort of traffic calming measure. I see expansion joints and cracks due subsidence. I'd love to be wrong.

[Red Rider]

Well spotted scirocco! I doubt they would do anything other than the brown bitumen like the PSP south of Thelma overpass. But I wonder what the concrete slabs are for... maybe for fixing the river wall north of Hardy St overpass.

[Tornado]

While we are on the Kwinana PSP. What's the deal with that spongy bit near Mundijong Road? That is crap.

[Baalzamon]

While we are on the Kwinana PSP. What's the deal with that spongy bit near Mundijong Road? That is crap.

Ah that spot. I complained about it last year and they were trying to solve the problems with it always cracking so that is their best solution to date

[Tornado]

I rode over it on Thursday and it was just like a sponge. Hope they find a solution.

[Baalzamon]

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=56788&p=857586&hil ... ng#p857586

Been there for a year now with no change so what do you reckon...

[Tornado]

I'm not hopeful

[jlh]

I reckon its an effin joke

[Tornado]

I reckon its an effin joke

Went through there yesterday. It's a little firmer in the dry but not much. Can't be that hard to fix. The Freeway 20mt to the side of it is fine.

[scirocco]

I doubt they would do anything other than the brown bitumen like the PSP south of Thelma overpass. But I wonder what the concrete slabs are for... maybe for fixing the river wall north of Hardy St overpass.

The notice said that they would free issue granite slabs for the riverwall stabilisation. I read it as that the concrete slabs were for the path itself, especially as they mentioned a 500mm excavation depth.

Sounds like a bit more than a layer of red/brown tarmac. And yes, I'd also be concerned about subsidence at the joints if they don't install them right.

[chuckchunder]

The add only refers to 500sqm of slabs, but 11,000sqm of red asphalt. The section between Thelma St overpass and the Narrows Bridge includes the section alongside the Millpoint Rd on-ramp, this area is treated with concrete slabs. Perhaps the slabs are more likely for use in an area similar to this? Perhaps under the Thelma St overpass following re-alignment of the path similar to the treatment around the Preston St overpass at Como Jetty.

[jonhanson]

We ride that bit of the freeway on our river loop Tuesday and Thursdays. We've decided not to ride it anymore as it's just too dangerous with bicycles, corners where you can't see what's coming, people riding two abreast. Admittedly we do go reasonably quick ourselves sometimes. So we now go over the first footbridge after Canning Bridge and down Labouchere Rd which is much more pleasant. I'd also hate to be a walker on that stretch with the bikes flying past at speed. First bit of nice weather this morning and there were heaps more bikes out. Someone said it well on here previously - we've got to remember these are shared paths for cyclists and pedestrians.

[scirocco]

Someone said it well on here previously - we've got to remember these are shared paths for cyclists and pedestrians.

Really there is such heavy bike traffic south of the Narrows that it should be separated. There's not so much foot traffic compared to bikes anyway on the Mill Point Rd to Comer St section - its from there to Thelma there tend to be a few more pedestrians.

I know that some sections of the path from Thelma to the Narrows are limited by the closeness of the river and the freeway, but you would hope on the wider sections they might be able to separate out a pedestrian lane from the bike lanes as has already been done in some areas. Even if it was just markings it would be better than nothing and add a bit of discipline for all parties.

[jonhanson]

Agree. Who would be the department to lobby to bring about such a change ?

[citywomble]

Re: Kwinana Fwy PSP upgrade
by jonhanson » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:44 am

Agree. Who would be the department to lobby to bring about such a change ?

Main Roads WA.

They are responsible for Primary Shared Paths (PSPs) which are within freeway corridors. Remind them that the Austroads Guidelines should be adhered to and that separate paths (and not shared paths) are required where significant cyclist volumes conflict with pedestrians.

If PSPs are to provide a high volume, faster speed (more than 20 kph) cycling/commuting facility then that cannot be on a shared path where pedestrians have full right of way and cyclists only have virtually automatic legal liability for any accident. That is not a fit and proper bike path and could see cyclists held liable both criminally and civilly for the consequences which would not be the case if they were proper bike paths with cyclist priority.

[GingaNinja]

A shared path it is, yesterday I narrowly avoided a collision with a ped just before south perth turn off.
I was heading south after the narrows with a runner heading south on the compacted side of the path. As I cycled up to her she turned across my path (without looking) ~8mtres in front of me (that is 1.5seconds of reaction time before collision). To avoid a collision, I braked really hard and went over the top of my bike. Lost skin on shoulder, hip, elbow, knee, hand. and now looking forward to a couple of weeks of recovery. so a couple of people have said "her fault for not looking, so her bad luck if there is a collision".
Interestingly, it was 7.10am so less bikes and a few extra runners.
The runner admitted she couldn't hear my bell over the noise of the traffic.

[Baalzamon]

Peds have right of way. Simply slow down when in pedestrian traffic and most incidents can be avoided.

[mich rolling]

Why didn't you ring your bell?

[jlh]

Why didn't you ring your bell?

In the post it says the runner didn't hear the bell over traffic, so they did ring their bell.

[scirocco]

Peds have right of way. Simply slow down when in pedestrian traffic and most incidents can be avoided.

Agreed in general, but I think the thrust of this thread is that the PSP south of the narrows is one place where this ought to be changed by separation and changing of responsibility as citywomble has suggested. Overly simplistic to just say "slow down". You could slow everything down everywhere and avoid any problems but there has to be a balance between usability while still keeping people safe. Proper path design could achieve this.

[rcmkII]

Why didn't you ring your bell?

In the post it says the runner didn't hear the bell over traffic, so they did ring their bell.

Older people can't hear bicycle bells anyway - the pitch is too high for their degraded hearing. (Happens to us all with advancing age, unfortunately.) When I see pedestrians with grey hair, I yell 'bike' instead.

[wellington_street]

citywomble is correct in that separate paths are needed on this corridor but until they are provided, the only acceptable behaviour is SLOW DOWN and share the path.

They are calling it a "minor capital project" but sounds as if it is going to be properly done, not just a lick of paint type job. Closes on the 4th of October.

"Minor capital works" just refers to projects under $2mil (I think) - it has impacts on MRWA procurement procedures.

[jlh]

Hopefully they can get rid of those bumps from tree roots on the PSP just north of canning bridge (not sure how they can do this really apart from ongoing maintenance without killing the trees off).

Saw a young lady getting her gravel rashes tended to near there on Sunday after coming down.

[ColinOldnCranky]

There is not a great capacity to allocate a lot of real estate on the south perth/como stretch so separation is not likely to happen.

But even if it was, where do we draw the line? Frankly even some cyclists need to be separated from other cyclists along this stretch, with riders ranigng from ambling in ones or two to haigh speed singles and groups. So what do we push for? Three lanes in and another three out?

I ride it daily during the morning rush and, frankly, it will take a lot more traffic before it gets beyone the ability of the riders to determine the outcome. Until then, ride with respect and urge others to do so as well.
It is badly in need of some work but a total redesign and rebuild should not be on the cards.

And while discussing this stretch, if you have a flat, how about taking the old tube and dumping it in the bin. You can easily wrap and tie it around the top tube. At my speed I get to pick up one every couple of weeks or so.