Down jackets

Re: Down jackets

Postby rifraf » Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:51 pm

Re: Down jackets

snafuspyramid wrote:Returning to softshells, do you think it makes sense to purchase the hard shell with the hood? And does anyone have any thoughts on the Macpac 6S Sabre softshell? How might this compare with the Marmot?





I've a couple of thoughts to offer.
Despite some searching I've found little mention of the Sabre online.
I looked, as being a Macpac fan from way back, the Sabre was the first jacket I looked at.

There is reams of positive feedback however on the Granity.
Coupled with RonKs first hand knowledge and recommendation I found it an easy decision as I too tend to agonise for extended periods of time over purchase decisions.
Whist I'm confident the Sabre is a good product there was just too much evidence of the Marmot being a great one to ignore.

Moments ago I found and bought:
http://www.backcountry.com/marmot-gravi ... GphY2tldHM

Hope this is helpful

cheers :)
Last edited by rifraf on Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:28 am, edited 3 times in total.
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by BNA » Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:56 pm

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Re: Down jackets

Postby rifraf » Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:56 pm

RonK wrote:Personally I really dislike hoods of any kind. I did buy the hood with my Showers Pass and wore it once. Anyone who wants it can have it.

PM sent :)
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Re: Down jackets

Postby rifraf » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:29 am

rifraf wrote:
Moments ago I found and bought:
http://www.backcountry.com/marmot-gravi ... GphY2tldHM

Hope this is helpful

cheers :)



Update:
Bummer, I just received an email from Backcountry apologising but they arnt allowed to ship Marmot products internationally.

My options appear I'll have use a forwarding agent as according to Mainpeak there doesnt appear to be any local stock. :(
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Re: Down jackets

Postby Aushiker » Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:03 pm

rifraf wrote:Bummer, I just received an email from Backcountry apologising but they arnt allowed to ship Marmot products internationally.

My options appear I'll have use a forwarding agent as according to Mainpeak there doesnt appear to be any local stock. :(


Maybe not a bad thing as I suspect you can buy better than the Gravity anyway at least in the Marmot range if not others. Check out the likes of BackpackingLight.com for some ideas. Also there is eBay as one option for getting around the "cannot ship" policies :)

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Re: Down jackets

Postby rifraf » Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:11 pm

Aushiker wrote:
rifraf wrote:Bummer, I just received an email from Backcountry apologising but they arnt allowed to ship Marmot products internationally.

My options appear I'll have use a forwarding agent as according to Mainpeak there doesnt appear to be any local stock. :(


Maybe not a bad thing as I suspect you can buy better than the Gravity anyway at least in the Marmot range if not others. Check out the likes of BackpackingLight.com for some ideas. Also there is eBay as one option for getting around the "cannot ship" policies :)

Andrew


Hi Andrew,
thanks for the link.
The Gravity is one of Marmots biggest sellers according to their NZ rep whom I spoke to today.
NZ and Australia very quickly sold out of their collared and hooded Gravitys extremely quickly this year.
Cheers
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Re: Down jackets

Postby rifraf » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:50 pm

Hi Snafu,
not sure of your locale or size but in Melbourne on ebay theres an extra large Macpac Sundowner finishing soon
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/301007559389
Not mine nor anyone I know but at its current price I thought it may be worth a punt if your in the area.
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Re: Down jackets

Postby snafuspyramid » Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:22 pm

rifraf wrote:Hi Snafu,
not sure of your locale or size but in Melbourne on ebay theres an extra large Macpac Sundowner finishing soon
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/301007559389
Not mine nor anyone I know but at its current price I thought it may be worth a punt if your in the area.


Cheers rifraf, it went for $75 which would have been a great buy, but I'm a size L in most of their stuff. I also decided against down after all the discussion here and am looking for a softshell instead.

I found a $100 Macpac Sabre - hoodless - for my partner on clearance the other day, largely because she likes the look of it. I'd be pretty happy if I could find one that cheap for myself (but preferably with a hood).

I've spent a good deal of time trying to figure out what softshells are and how they work. I gather that there's a huge variety between different shells, so it's difficult to figure out especially what the Macpac one is.

They apparently use their own '6th Sense Fabric' which apparently has marvelous properties including 'protecting you from rain when dedicated rain gear is over the top' :shock:

As an aside, they currently have a clearance on their merino cycling jerseys, about $60 each. I have one and I like it a lot.
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Re: Down jackets

Postby rifraf » Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:39 pm

I'm sure youll find the Macpac gear quality and fit for purpose.

I've just emptied the wallet on a new Tarpaulin (Wilderness Equipment) and Gravity softshell (my first), but will likely check what merino wear Macpac has left on payday, having heard so many positive comments about it.

I like the look of the:
http://www.macpac.com.au/mens/mens-meri ... e-men.html
and
http://www.macpac.com.au/mens/mens-meri ... t-men.html
although not sure about the only colour left in my size (green) for the long sleeve version.

Wish I knew a little more about the weights/thicknesses and their most suitable use though.
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Re: Down jackets

Postby Aushiker » Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:49 pm

rifraf wrote:http://www.macpac.com.au/mens/mens-merino/merino-150-cycle-men.html
and
http://www.macpac.com.au/mens/mens-meri ... t-men.html
although not sure about the only colour left in my size (green) for the long sleeve version.

Wish I knew a little more about the weights/thicknesses and their most suitable use though.


They are 150gm/m so they are meant to be summer wear, NZ summer wear, not WA summer wear :) I find my loose fitting Icebreaker GT 150 shirts okay for wearing off the bike but a bit on the warm side on the bike when it is getting warmer, around 25 C+

My Ground Effect summer riding shirts are better in the heat than my Icebreaker GT150.

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Re: Down jackets

Postby rifraf » Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:01 pm

Aushiker wrote:They are 150gm/m so they are meant to be summer wear, NZ summer wear, not WA summer wear :) I find my loose fitting Icebreaker GT 150 shirts okay for wearing off the bike but a bit on the warm side on the bike when it is getting warmer, around 25 C+

My Ground Effect summer riding shirts are better in the heat than my Icebreaker GT150.

Andrew

I rarely go out the door in WA summer, let alone ride in the heat (except at night).

Suitable for WA late Autumn then do you think and as part of a layering system for winter riding? :?
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Re: Down jackets

Postby RonK » Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:12 pm

snafuspyramid wrote:I found a $100 Macpac Sabre - hoodless - for my partner on clearance the other day, largely because she likes the look of it. I'd be pretty happy if I could find one that cheap for myself (but preferably with a hood).

Smart girl - obviously has an eye for style and practicality. But forget the hood - a hat makes for a far more versatile outfit.
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Re: Down jackets

Postby snafuspyramid » Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:14 am

RonK wrote:
snafuspyramid wrote:I found a $100 Macpac Sabre - hoodless - for my partner on clearance the other day, largely because she likes the look of it. I'd be pretty happy if I could find one that cheap for myself (but preferably with a hood).

Smart girl - obviously has an eye for style and practicality. But forget the hood - a hat makes for a far more versatile outfit.


Yeah, as you probably noticed earlier I'd be quite happy wandering about town wearing my bike jackets (and actually do from time to time). It doesn't bother me that I look like a tool. However, it does bother her...

To replace a hood I'd need a Gore-tex hat like the one you mentioned, or something else waterproof/breathable. I don't know that that would be breathable for use except in rain though, since I sweat like an absolute pig in the heat and I doubt a membrane would keep up. Or is it just the brim and top panel that are waterproof?
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Re: Down jackets

Postby RonK » Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:06 pm

snafuspyramid wrote:Yeah, as you probably noticed earlier I'd be quite happy wandering about town wearing my bike jackets (and actually do from time to time). It doesn't bother me that I look like a tool. However, it does bother her...

Didn't you tell us in a previous post that your bike jacket is uncomfortable to wear off the bike? :roll: You are planning a trip to Tassie. Will you be happy to wear your bike jacket for the ferry voyage or flight?

The point I've been trying to make about softshells is that they are quite presentable and appropriate attire for almost any activity off the bike in cool and/or showery weather. Even - walking your dog in Melbourne, as you asked when first posting this thread. Perhaps f'rinstance, your girl might like to lash out with a night at Garagistes, probably the best known eatery in Hobart, or any of the restaurants around Salamanca Place or North Hobart. For sure I'd be visiting Fish Frenzy on Elizabeth Street pier. She might want to take a cruise on the Derwent or Tamar, visit the museum, art gallery, Mona, you name it.

snafuspyramid wrote:To replace a hood I'd need a Gore-tex hat like the one you mentioned, or something else waterproof/breathable. I don't know that that would be breathable for use except in rain though, since I sweat like an absolute pig in the heat and I doubt a membrane would keep up. Or is it just the brim and top panel that are waterproof?

Goretex is only one hat option but folds flat and fits easily in a jacket pocket. IP suggested waxed cotton - very effective in rain or sun but probably less packable.

Personally, if it is hot enough to raise a sweat I wouldn't be wearing any kind of rain jacket (or hat for that matter). Perhaps you need to take a folding umbrella if you are concerned about getting wet in hot weather. :lol:
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Re: Down jackets

Postby snafuspyramid » Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:17 pm

RonK wrote:Didn't you tell us in a previous post that your bike jacket is uncomfortable to wear off the bike? :roll: You are planning a trip to Tassie. Will you be happy to wear your bike jacket for the ferry voyage or flight?

The point I've been trying to make about softshells is that they are quite presentable and appropriate attire for almost any activity off the bike in cool and/or showery weather. Even - walking your dog in Melbourne, as you asked when first posting this thread. Perhaps f'rinstance, your girl might like to lash out with a night at Garagistes, probably the best known eatery in Hobart, or any of the restaurants around Salamanca Place or North Hobart. For sure I'd be visiting Fish Frenzy on Elizabeth Street pier. She might want to take a cruise on the Derwent or Tamar, visit the museum, art gallery, Mona, you name it.

snafuspyramid wrote:To replace a hood I'd need a Gore-tex hat like the one you mentioned, or something else waterproof/breathable. I don't know that that would be breathable for use except in rain though, since I sweat like an absolute pig in the heat and I doubt a membrane would keep up. Or is it just the brim and top panel that are waterproof?

Goretex is only one hat option but folds flat and fits easily in a jacket pocket. IP suggested waxed cotton - very effective in rain or sun but probably less packable.

Personally, if it is hot enough to raise a sweat I wouldn't be wearing any kind of rain jacket (or hat for that matter). Perhaps you need to take a folding umbrella if you are concerned about getting wet in hot weather. :lol:


Hi Ron,

My jacket isn't too bad unless it's got my big old-school fleece under it, but a softshell would definitely be more comfy. I think you're absolutely right about the benefits of having something that looks presentable off the bike, especially since we do like to eat...

It's true that I wouldn't need to worry too much about the heat AND rain, it's just that I would prefer to buy one hat rather than two - but I guess they're cheap enough. An umbrella is actually another option I've been looking at, especially the Helinox model. Neither of us have rainpants and the softshells won't withstand more than a shower, so it might be handy. Plus I can always do with another umbrella (this being Melbourne), so it's another item that I'd get plenty of off-bike use from. Thoughts?
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Re: Down jackets

Postby RonK » Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:53 pm

snafuspyramid wrote:An umbrella is actually another option I've been looking at, especially the Helinox model.

I wasn't joking - I carried an umbrella on trek right up until it was torn out of my hands in the wind blast from an avalanche. Mostly it was used as a sunshade. But it did come in handy for the odd rain or snow shower. I never replaced it because about that time I started using dual trekking poles to aid my increasingly creaky knees. I haven't found one necessary on tour yet, but they are easy to find and cheap to buy if required.

snafuspyramid wrote:Neither of us have rainpants and the softshells won't withstand more than a shower, so it might be handy.

OK - continuing your education about softshells. One of the reasons I use and suggested the Marmot Gravity jacket is because it is made from M1 fabric. This no coincidence or chance selection - M1 is Marmot's warmest and most water resistant softshell fabric. For my purposes - as a travel, street and camp jacket where the most active I'll be is to walk, this is the best choice. It will handle far more than just a shower - in fact it takes quite heavy and continuous rain to overwhelm it. No doubt there are other brands and variations of softshell jackets with attributes that will satisfy your particular requirements, but selecting the correct one should not be left to chance.
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Re: Down jackets

Postby snafuspyramid » Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:48 pm

RonK wrote: No doubt there are other brands and variations of softshell jackets with attributes that will satisfy your particular requirements, but selecting the correct one should not be left to chance.


Hi Ron, I sent Macpac an email asking about their softshell, and the reply:

"The Sabre jacket is most certainly warm and wind proof. It will provide you with some water resistance due to the DWR but with enough rain, the water can soak through. If you are comparing it to a continuum the Sabre would lie on the (for less active use) end of the scale. It is reasonably thick and wouldn’t be that comfortable whilst being very active. It would be perfect for around town use if you just needed something to keep you warm and break the wind. "

So it sounds like it's fairly suitable for me. I tried one on and they fit me really well (especially the long arms), so I'm keen to pick one up when the prices drop. Unfortunately it turns out that the one I bought for my partner doesn't fit her very well around the shoulders - and because she has shorter arms - so I'll be returning it and looking for something else for her. I will see if I can find a bricks and mortar store that stocks Marmot in Melbourne.
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Re: Down jackets

Postby il padrone » Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:02 pm

RonK wrote:
snafuspyramid wrote:An umbrella is actually another option I've been looking at, especially the Helinox model.

I wasn't joking - I carried an umbrella on trek right up until it was torn out of my hands in the wind blast from an avalanche. Mostly it was used as a sunshade. But it did come in handy for the odd rain or snow shower. I never replaced it because about that time I started using dual trekking poles to aid my increasingly creaky knees. I haven't found one necessary on tour yet, but they are easy to find and cheap to buy if required.

Nubrella

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Re: Down jackets

Postby RonK » Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:08 pm

snafuspyramid wrote:
RonK wrote: No doubt there are other brands and variations of softshell jackets with attributes that will satisfy your particular requirements, but selecting the correct one should not be left to chance.


Hi Ron, I sent Macpac an email asking about their softshell, and the reply:

"The Sabre jacket is most certainly warm and wind proof. It will provide you with some water resistance due to the DWR but with enough rain, the water can soak through. If you are comparing it to a continuum the Sabre would lie on the (for less active use) end of the scale. It is reasonably thick and wouldn’t be that comfortable whilst being very active. It would be perfect for around town use if you just needed something to keep you warm and break the wind. "

So it sounds like it's fairly suitable for me. I tried one on and they fit me really well (especially the long arms), so I'm keen to pick one up when the prices drop. Unfortunately it turns out that the one I bought for my partner doesn't fit her very well around the shoulders - and because she has shorter arms - so I'll be returning it and looking for something else for her. I will see if I can find a bricks and mortar store that stocks Marmot in Melbourne.


Yeah, the Sabre sounds like it fits the bill for a travel jacket. Paddy Pallin stocks Marmot but I don't know what they'll have in the women's range.
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Re: Down jackets

Postby RonK » Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:10 pm

il padrone wrote:
RonK wrote:
snafuspyramid wrote:An umbrella is actually another option I've been looking at, especially the Helinox model.

I wasn't joking - I carried an umbrella on trek right up until it was torn out of my hands in the wind blast from an avalanche. Mostly it was used as a sunshade. But it did come in handy for the odd rain or snow shower. I never replaced it because about that time I started using dual trekking poles to aid my increasingly creaky knees. I haven't found one necessary on tour yet, but they are easy to find and cheap to buy if required.

Nubrella

:wink:

Hehe - perfect! Too bad my trekking days are over.
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Re: Down jackets

Postby rifraf » Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:45 pm

il padrone wrote:Nubrella

:wink:
[

I reckon with a fairly typical northern suburbs Perth tailwind, speeds in excess of 120kmph should be possible with one of those wind catchers :D
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Re: Down jackets

Postby satanas » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:55 pm

A few comments:

Kathmandu "sales" are when things go for roughly what they are worth. Sadly, all other outdoor shops are now compelled to have "sales"/dubious pricing the whole time, which is not good for anyone.

Macpac product quality is typically vastly better than Kathmandu, and I concur with those who've said their merino is as good as Icebreaker; Patagonia merino (and quality generally) is also excellent.

"Down is no good when it's wet." Don't get it wet then! I've been a down bag and jacket user since 1976, for cycle touring, bushwalking, XC skiing, trekking, etc, and have yet to get anything wet enough that it was a problem. One does need to take care, but not an excessive amount, and down lasts much better than synthetic equivalents whilst saving weight and bulk. I understand that some people think insulated jackets should be usable as raincoats or sponges but I disagree.

Re light stuff: Last year in the Khumbu I took Salomon XA Pro mid Gore-Tex approach shoes, plus lightweight everything else. The "boots" were more comfortable, warmer (sized for a double "hunting sock system") and gripped better than the leather ones used on the previous trip. Leather is handy here in Oz though as it can be reproofed to keep water out once punctured by blackberry bushes. They don't have those in India or Nepal though.

Softshells: Great to keep out wind and light precipitation whilst supplying a bit of insulation. Not super warm though, and much heavier for any significant amount of insulation than down garments. I wear softshells a lot around town and when skiing, but there are better solutions for keeping out rain or when it's really cold and/or you're inactive. People do vary though and if you're one of those who always wears less than most, then maybe they'll be warm enough for you. I tend to run cold, and so down jackets or vests save a lot of space and weight for me.

Finally, as with everything else, you have to try it to see if it'll work for you.
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Re: Down jackets

Postby RonK » Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:38 am

satanas wrote:I understand that some people think insulated jackets should be usable as raincoats or sponges but I disagree.

Isn't that the point that posters here have been making?

satanas wrote:Re light stuff: Last year in the Khumbu I took Salomon XA Pro mid Gore-Tex approach shoes, plus lightweight everything else.

Yes, some of us who have been there have already worked that out. However I'd be cautious about recommending approach shoes if a pack is to be carried - without some support there is a risk of a trek-terminating injury if you happen to roll an ankle on rough ground. I've seen it happen first day out. OK if you have porters carrying your gear though.
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Re: Down jackets

Postby satanas » Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:51 pm

^ The "shoes" I took come up above the ankle. They're sort of a quasi boot, there's as much ankle support as with a light leather boot, plus gaiters and elastic pant cuffs actually seal over the tops. FWIW, I've used low tops as well and had no issues, but one does have to be more careful with foot placement. Personally, I'm not prepared to wear heavy/stiff/high leather boots any more as they're too much like hard work, even though longer lasting.
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Re: Down jackets

Postby RonK » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:34 pm

satanas wrote:Personally, I'm not prepared to wear heavy/stiff/high leather boots any more as they're too much like hard work, even though longer lasting.


Hehe - I'm with you there. The Scarpa Mantas were retired long ago. It was liberating.
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Re: Down jackets

Postby il padrone » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:38 pm

Hmm........ :?: :o


Thermoball. Is it for real??


The company claims ThermoBall has nearly the same warmth-to-weight ratio as a quality goose down.....

.....But the big claim, and the one I set out to test, was that the insulation will “achieve phenomenal warmth in cold and wet weather” by maintaining loft even when loaded with water.
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