Whats the point of the derny?!
-
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2012 5:35 pm
- Location: Hoxton Park
Whats the point of the derny?!
Postby Cossie Phil » Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:35 pm
I was lucky enough to be given a 'heads up' about the CSC Cup at Dunc Grey last night and went along to watch a good nights racing with a few regulars from here:) Other than this, I would never have known it was on...could be why there weren't many spectators?
The highlight of the night for me was seeing Caleb Ewan finish in the final...awesome!! And also seeing a few LACC jerseys out on the track;)
Anyway, the Kieran...whats the go with the derny? It looked like it was holding up the riders...or is that the point? Something about a rolling start? I have no idea?
Cheers,
Phil.
- Derny Driver
- Posts: 3039
- Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:18 pm
- Location: Wollongong
Re: Whats the point of the derny?!
Postby Derny Driver » Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:41 pm
Yes the derny is there to control the speed of the race. It starts very slowly and the riders jockey for position. Right behind the derny is usually favoured because you get the best draft and when it swings off the track you are at the front which means you cant get boxed in and can control the speed of the following riders to a degree. The derny swings off with 2 and a half laps remaining or 625 metres. Keirin racing favours riders who can sprint for long distances as opposed to pure sprinters who are good for around 300-350 metres maximum. Since the derny is doing around 45kph+ when it swings off the track, the race also suits riders with a high top speed as opposed to match sprinters who have a quicker acceleration. So using a derny to control the race speed up until the final laps, means that you get a very different outcome compared to a pure man on man match sprint. The match sprint and the keirin are the two blue riband events for the speed men, and because of the derny, they are two very different events.Cossie Phil wrote:I'm sure there is a logical obvious answer...though it was not obvious to me last night!
I was lucky enough to be given a 'heads up' about the CSC Cup at Dunc Grey last night and went along to watch a good nights racing with a few regulars from here:) Other than this, I would never have known it was on...could be why there weren't many spectators?
The highlight of the night for me was seeing Caleb Ewan finish in the final...awesome!! And also seeing a few LACC jerseys out on the track;)
Anyway, the Kieran...whats the go with the derny? It looked like it was holding up the riders...or is that the point? Something about a rolling start? I have no idea?
Cheers,
Phil.
Chris Hoy was a legend in the keirin race, he could go longer in the sprint than anyone else, and in the old days, Sid Patterson would have been a multiple world keirin champion if they had the event in the 50's and 60's (they didn't). He had an unbelievably long sprint and a high top speed.
-
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2012 5:35 pm
- Location: Hoxton Park
Re: Whats the point of the derny?!
Postby Cossie Phil » Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:56 pm
-
- Posts: 1346
- Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:35 am
- Location: Earlwood
- Contact:
Re: Whats the point of the derny?!
Postby vander » Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:23 pm
-
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 10:16 am
Re: Whats the point of the derny?!
Postby Row-D » Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:49 pm
As one of the LACC jerseys noted I can definitely say watching the CSC is great but getting out there on the track is even better. I had an absolute blast.Cossie Phil wrote:And also seeing a few LACC jerseys out on the track;)
-
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2012 5:35 pm
- Location: Hoxton Park
Re: Whats the point of the derny?!
Postby Cossie Phil » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:52 pm
-
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2012 5:35 pm
- Location: Hoxton Park
Re: Whats the point of the derny?!
Postby Cossie Phil » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:55 pm
-
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 10:16 am
Re: Whats the point of the derny?!
Postby Row-D » Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:33 am
Hopefully the Lidcombe track will be good to go by Christmas - see you down there.
- Derny Driver
- Posts: 3039
- Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:18 pm
- Location: Wollongong
- brentono
- Posts: 3698
- Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:33 pm
- Location: Perth DubyaEh.
Re: Whats the point of the derny?!
Postby brentono » Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:57 am
Though I did enjoy the old style motorpaced events immensely, great speed and action.
Your positioning was premier in these events. A great 10 kilo event. Won many
The motorpacing for training for Track is a given. And for spectators a great Race Event.
Sad it is rarely around these days.
-
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2012 5:35 pm
- Location: Hoxton Park
Re: Whats the point of the derny?!
Postby Cossie Phil » Sat Feb 15, 2014 1:53 pm
Nice action shot above DD!! Either that or the rider is doing a fantastic track stand;)
- foo on patrol
- Posts: 9008
- Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:12 am
- Location: Sanstone Point QLD
Re: Whats the point of the derny?!
Postby foo on patrol » Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:00 pm
Foo
Goal 6000km
- Derny Driver
- Posts: 3039
- Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:18 pm
- Location: Wollongong
Re: Whats the point of the derny?!
Postby Derny Driver » Sat Feb 15, 2014 4:14 pm
A friend of mine took the photo, he's a great photographer. I was the derny driver at the Bowral and Illawarra State track carnivals. This was at Illawarra, one of the Junior keirin races.Cossie Phil wrote:
Nice action shot above DD!! Either that or the rider is doing a fantastic track stand;)
I have a photo of the Bowral carnival last year with a string of riders behind me in the A grade motorpace, led by Caleb Ewen and Jack Edwards. I'll see if I can find it on my computer.
-
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2012 5:35 pm
- Location: Hoxton Park
Re: Whats the point of the derny?!
Postby Cossie Phil » Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:14 pm
- bigfriendlyvegan
- Posts: 3977
- Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:18 pm
- Location: Denistone, NSW
- Contact:
Re: Whats the point of the derny?!
Postby bigfriendlyvegan » Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:28 pm
- Derny Driver
- Posts: 3039
- Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:18 pm
- Location: Wollongong
Re: Whats the point of the derny?!
Postby Derny Driver » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:06 am
Yes in the olden days they used tandems for motorpacing on the track ...or tripletsbigfriendlyvegan wrote: You don't need a motor bike to be a derny, just a "motor".
- HLC
- Posts: 722
- Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:23 pm
- Location: Sydney.
Re: Whats the point of the derny?!
Postby HLC » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:09 pm
Keirin is my favourite track event! So much so, i own a Japanese Keirin bike.
Anyway, as outlined above, it has it's place in Keirin racing, it also had it's place at the 100 lap motor pace training sessions at the speed dome in perth.
- Pravda
- Posts: 456
- Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:16 pm
- Location: Perth NOR
Re: Whats the point of the derny?!
Postby Pravda » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:18 pm
Motorpace racing is also completely insane! Check out this one from Iljo Keisse .
And HLC, Tuesday Track nights at the speeddome in Perth are my favourite night of the week. Motorpace training is the reason I'm racing B grade these days.
Puegeot Aneto 105
Kona Jake the Snake CX
- Derny Driver
- Posts: 3039
- Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:18 pm
- Location: Wollongong
Re: Whats the point of the derny?!
Postby Derny Driver » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:46 pm
6 days of Gent.Pravda wrote:Yessss love the keirin!
Motorpace racing is also completely insane! Check out this one from Iljo Keisse .
You can see Iljo putting on a great show for the crowd. Wheelies, with a last minute, last lap lunge for the line ...a spectacular victory!!
I was invited to attend the 2005 Gent 6 day by the organisers, Patrick Sercu and Roger de Maartelaere. (My uncle was a famous 6 day rider).
After watching Iljo win the derny races every night, in the same fashion, I asked Mr Sercu if they were "staged".
"Yes of course. Iljo is the local boy, his dad owns the bike shop in Gent. The crowd are not stupid. They know its a set up. But they love it. They stand on their chairs and scream for him. The derny races are just for show, for fun. The other races are not staged, just the derny races"
The derny races are amazing. During each night, most of the crowd are either chatting and socialising in the 3 under-track bars, or out in the middle of the track watching and socialising. But when the dernys start up, the engine noise and the noise of the boards as they ride around the track brings EVERYONE back to their seats. The crowd bang things, blow whistles, let off air horns, scream, jump up and down and generally go beserk. The derny races are late on the program and everyone is half-cut and they just go crazy. Its like nothing you've ever seen.
- Pravda
- Posts: 456
- Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:16 pm
- Location: Perth NOR
Re: Whats the point of the derny?!
Postby Pravda » Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:19 pm
Puegeot Aneto 105
Kona Jake the Snake CX
- Derny Driver
- Posts: 3039
- Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:18 pm
- Location: Wollongong
Re: Whats the point of the derny?!
Postby Derny Driver » Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:24 pm
Exactly mate, spot on. Im saving up and dreaming of going back to another 'Six'. Honestly, its like a cross between a disco, a circus, a carnival and a bike race. I cant even describe how amazing the live atmosphere is.Pravda wrote:Would love to get over and check out one of the big 6 day races. Not surprising they stage the Derny races, they'd be mayhem and I reckon crazy dangerous in a proper race environment. Sercu would know being Merckx's partner and with him almost dying in a derny race back in the day.
- brentono
- Posts: 3698
- Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:33 pm
- Location: Perth DubyaEh.
Re: Whats the point of the derny?!
Postby brentono » Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:45 am
Don't think there's any Keirin hater's here HLCHLC wrote:all the Keirin haters....
Keirin is my favourite track event! So much so, i own a Japanese Keirin bike.
Anyway, as outlined above, it has it's place in Keirin racing, it also had it's place at the 100 lap motor pace training sessions at the speed dome in perth.
The OP made a valid point, and as you would know, even the Japanese who
originated the Keirin event, do not need a Derny
Meh-Still regret not shifting to Japan, and taking the circuit offer, back in the day.
As for Motorpaced Scratch Racing (and Training), a great spectacle, and it takes
a very good pacer, to maintain the correct speeds for the group, in either case.
Much in the reverse of a normal scratch race, the hardest place is getting on to
the rear. And the easiest is up on the Pacer.
Enjoy it HLC
-
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:46 pm
Re: Whats the point of the derny?!
Postby siennatrack » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:10 pm
the 4up motor pace on our track 200m steep banked velo
the noise of the old honda step through getting wrung out
the drivers in white overalls with the buttons undone to
create a wind break great stuff then years later I got my turn
with an ex Aussie sprint champion on the bike pacing me when he
dropped off the last rider by 10 lengths I started to wonder
but as we wound up I understood why the gap because when we
made our move around the other bikes I was already on top of the
gear .Some of my best memories.
- KGB
- Posts: 1629
- Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:49 pm
Re: Whats the point of the derny?!
Postby KGB » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:26 pm
I disagree here, although admittedly it was much better when the rules were looser and allowed more (any) contact and there was more jostling for position.Cossie Phil wrote:For my taste, I would like to see the derny going quick enough for the riders to work to stay on, if they arent working, I dont see the point in it being there.
The early laps with the derny were spent fighting for position while the pace was gradually increased until the riders were launched into the last couple of laps. If they were "working" to keep up with the bike then there would be very little jockeying... I guess kinda like now! Oh well, its still good to see 6 fast blokes being launched into a 2 lap screamer.
Besides all that - they are sprinters remember. If it was hard work to keep up with the derny I imagine there would be plenty of Keirin races where the field just sat there watching each other and let the derny ride off!
- g-boaf
- Posts: 21318
- Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm
Re: Whats the point of the derny?!
Postby g-boaf » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:39 am
Great video.Pravda wrote:Yessss love the keirin!
Motorpace racing is also completely insane! Check out this one from Iljo Keisse .
And HLC, Tuesday Track nights at the speeddome in Perth are my favourite night of the week. Motorpace training is the reason I'm racing B grade these days.
- General Australian Cycling Topics
- Info / announcements
- Buying a bike / parts
- General Cycling Discussion
- The Bike Shed
- Cycling Health
- Cycling Safety and Advocacy
- Women's Cycling
- Bike & Gear Reviews
- Cycling Trade
- Stolen Bikes
- Bicycle FAQs
- Serious Biking
- Audax / Randonneuring
- Retro biking
- Commuting
- MTB
- Recumbents
- Fixed Gear/ Single Speed
- Track
- Electric Bicycles
- Cyclocross and Gravel Grinding
- Dragsters / Lowriders / Cruisers
- Children's Bikes
- Cargo Bikes and Utility Cycling
- Road Racing
- Road Biking
- Training
- Time Trial
- Triathlon
- International and National Tours and Events
- Cycle Touring
- Touring Australia
- Touring Overseas
- Touring Bikes and Equipment
- Australia
- Western Australia
- New South Wales
- Queensland
- South Australia
- Victoria
- ACT
- Tasmania
- Northern Territory
- Country & Regional
- The Market Place
- Member to Member Bike and Gear Sales
- Want to Buy, Group Buy, Swap
- My Bikes or Gear Elsewhere
- Cycling Brands
- Cannondale
- Garmin
- Giant
- Shimano
- Trek
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users
- All times are UTC+11:00
- Top
- Delete cookies
About the Australian Cycling Forums
The Australian Cycling Forums is a welcoming community where you can ask questions and talk about the type of bikes and cycling topics you like.
Bicycles Network Australia
Forum Information
Connect with BNA
This website uses affiliate links to retail platforms including ebay, amazon, proviz and ribble.