Tyre size 23 v 25
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Tyre size 23 v 25
Postby Fletch » Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:20 pm
The roads in my area are mostly a rough aggregate surface and i'm currently running specialized turbo elites as recommended by LBS, I did look at the 25 roubaix but was talked out of them.
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25
Postby Nobody » Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:02 pm
http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewt ... =9&t=56857" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25
Postby jacks1071 » Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:38 pm
I'm using a set of Pro-Lite Merano A25W wheels at the moment (24mm wide rim) with 23mm tyres.
The 23mm tyres on these rims are wider than a 25mm tyre on a standard width rim. I'm still playing with tyre pressures but generally am running 90psi front, 100psi rear which is 10psi less than I would use with a 23mm tyre on a narrow rim.
Loving it on our chip-seal roads. On nice hot-mix I feel that the narrow rims and 23mm tyres are probably a little faster but on the rough stuff the wider tyres/rims feel like a very good performance increase.
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25
Postby Fletch » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:35 pm
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25
Postby macca33 » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:59 pm
cheers
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25
Postby jacks1071 » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:36 pm
Did you reduce your tyre pressures when you went to the 25's? General rule of thumb, reduce by 10psi when running 25's.macca33 wrote:I tried 25s and felt that they were a tad nicer a the start, but have recetly changed back to 23s and didn't notice a whole lot of diference the other way. Admittedly, I reckon you'd need a 6" wide tyre to absorb the shite roads that I ride on in West Gippy...lol.
cheers
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25
Postby macca33 » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:03 pm
sent from a MacGalaxy far, far away. ..
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25
Postby KL. » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:04 am
Hi jacks1071, your previous stance was that wide rims (23/24mm wide) were a whole lot of whoa, and rubbish, and that 25mm tyres on 20mm wide rims did that same, if not better, job.jacks1071 wrote:Wide tyres roll better on a rough road than a narrow tyre.
I'm using a set of Pro-Lite Merano A25W wheels at the moment (24mm wide rim) with 23mm tyres.
The 23mm tyres on these rims are wider than a 25mm tyre on a standard width rim. I'm still playing with tyre pressures but generally am running 90psi front, 100psi rear which is 10psi less than I would use with a 23mm tyre on a narrow rim.
Loving it on our chip-seal roads. On nice hot-mix I feel that the narrow rims and 23mm tyres are probably a little faster but on the rough stuff the wider tyres/rims feel like a very good performance increase.
Just, a few months ago you were quite adamant about this, so, that stance seems to have changed. Could you further clarify your current stance/opinion...
thanks KL :=)
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25
Postby Nobody » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:23 am
We all continue to learn through our varied experiences in life. Over the years I've seen people on here at opposite poles on various subjects slowly move to agreement over some things, myself included.KL. wrote:Hi jacks1071, your previous stance was that wide rims (23/24mm wide) were a whole lot of whoa, and rubbish, and that 25mm tyres on 20mm wide rims did that same, if not better, job.
Just, a few months ago you were quite adamant about this, so, that stance seems to have changed. Could you further clarify your current stance/opinion...
thanks KL :=)
I run wide 23/24.5mm rims (17/19 inner) with 23 tyres. This makes the tyres measure 24.5 on the front and 26 on the back. I've also tried the same tyres and bike on 21mm outer (15.7mm inner) rims. I changed the pressures until they felt about the same. I ride mainly on paths in Sydney and found I could feel the difference, but only just. The wider rims felt a bit more comfortable and the thinner rims a bit faster. In the end I stayed with the wider rims, but could understand those who have the opinion that it doesn't make any difference.
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25
Postby warthog1 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:37 pm
Gee it'd be nice to have the money to just change rim widths willy nilly like that. Rim brakes, disc brakes, narrow rims, wide rims? Hmmm what will I ride today?Nobody wrote:We all continue to learn through our varied experiences in life. Over the years I've seen people on here at opposite poles on various subjects slowly move to agreement over some things, myself included.
I run wide 23/24.5mm rims (17/19 inner) with 23 tyres. This makes the tyres measure 24.5 on the front and 26 on the back. I've also tried the same tyres and bike on 21mm outer (15.7mm inner) rims. I changed the pressures until they felt about the same. I ride mainly on paths in Sydney and found I could feel the difference, but only just. The wider rims felt a bit more comfortable and the thinner rims a bit faster. In the end I stayed with the wider rims, but could understand those who have the opinion that it doesn't make any difference.
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25
Postby Nobody » Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:04 pm
Yes, well, being a family man like you, sometimes I have some money and most times I don't. Just going through a long don't phase now. Hope to have some money again in April.warthog1 wrote:Gee it'd be nice to have the money to just change rim widths willy nilly like that. Rim brakes, disc brakes, narrow rims, wide rims? Hmmm what will I ride today?
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Tyre size 23 v 25
Postby warthog1 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:03 am
The don't phases seem to be getting longer here too. Secondary school next year.Nobody wrote:[Yes, well, being a family man like you, sometimes I have some money and most times I don't. Just going through a long don't phase now. Hope to have some money again in April.
Must be getting really old now also
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25
Postby KL. » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:29 pm
KL. wrote:Hi jacks1071, your previous stance was that wide rims (23/24mm wide) were a whole lot of whoa, and rubbish, and that 25mm tyres on 20mm wide rims did that same, if not better, job.jacks1071 wrote:Wide tyres roll better on a rough road than a narrow tyre.
I'm using a set of Pro-Lite Merano A25W wheels at the moment (24mm wide rim) with 23mm tyres.
The 23mm tyres on these rims are wider than a 25mm tyre on a standard width rim. I'm still playing with tyre pressures but generally am running 90psi front, 100psi rear which is 10psi less than I would use with a 23mm tyre on a narrow rim.
Loving it on our chip-seal roads. On nice hot-mix I feel that the narrow rims and 23mm tyres are probably a little faster but on the rough stuff the wider tyres/rims feel like a very good performance increase.
Just, a few months ago you were quite adamant about this, so, that stance seems to have changed. Could you further clarify your current stance/opinion...
thanks KL :=)
So, it seemswarthog1 wrote:Gee it'd be nice to have the money to just change rim widths willy nilly like that. Rim brakes, disc brakes, narrow rims, wide rims? Hmmm what will I ride today?Nobody wrote:We all continue to learn through our varied experiences in life. Over the years I've seen people on here at opposite poles on various subjects slowly move to agreement over some things, myself included.
I run wide 23/24.5mm rims (17/19 inner) with 23 tyres. This makes the tyres measure 24.5 on the front and 26 on the back. I've also tried the same tyres and bike on 21mm outer (15.7mm inner) rims. I changed the pressures until they felt about the same. I ride mainly on paths in Sydney and found I could feel the difference, but only just. The wider rims felt a bit more comfortable and the thinner rims a bit faster. In the end I stayed with the wider rims, but could understand those who have the opinion that it doesn't make any difference.
Another approach to consider is 23/24/25 wide rear rim and 20/21/22 wide front rim
thanks KL
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25
Postby jacks1071 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:08 pm
Here is the basic run-down as I see it at this point in time:
Chip-seal roads, run wide tyres OR a wide rim. I havn't tried a tyre wider than 23mm on the Merano A25W but I feel it'd be pointless to go any wider as its quite fat. This rim is 24mm wide.
To achieve a similar width on a narrow rim a 28mm tyre would be required or if you'd like to go half-way then a 25mm will suffice.
A 25mm tyre on a 19.2mm rim is not as wide as a 23mm tyre on a 24mm rim.
If you ride where the roads are mostly hotmix stick with the lighter, narrow rims and tyres.
If the roads are rubbish or you are seeking comfort, go fat - either fat tyres or fat rims. You can achieve a similar contact patch either way.
If you do go fat, reduce the tyre pressure accordingly, the ability to run lower pressure is where the benefit is.
Other considerations. Wider tyres are heavier than narrower ones. Wider rims are heavier than narrower ones. Some people believe that wider rims are stronger than narrow rims, the jury is out on this - at this point in time I don't believe that to be true but time will tell and in 1 or 2 years I should be able to give you a more accurate opinion.
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25
Postby gabrielle260 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:48 pm
I'm feeling your pain Warthog!warthog1 wrote:The don't phases seem to be getting longer here too. Secondary school next year.Nobody wrote:[Yes, well, being a family man like you, sometimes I have some money and most times I don't. Just going through a long don't phase now. Hope to have some money again in April.
Must be getting really old now also
Paying one set of private school fees now and will have two lots in 12 months time. Plans for a new bike are now dependent on winning tattslotto.... Only one problem - I need to buy a ticket!
Andrew
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25
Postby gabrielle260 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:50 pm
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25
Postby thearthurdog » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:19 pm
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25
Postby KL. » Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:12 am
Yes, that is the objective of the wider rim ... that you can use a narrower tyre, such as a 23mm tyre (and even a 22mm tyre, for low rotating weight/mass) on a 23mm or 24mm wide rim, run lower air pressure (5 to 10 psi without incurring snake bites/tube pinch punctures) but achieve similar comfort and corner grip to that achieved by running a 25mm or 28mm tyre ( which have higher rotating weight) on a 20mm wide rim. It even reduces the need to run tubularjacks1071 wrote:... Chip-seal roads, run wide tyres OR a wide rim. I haven't tried a tyre wider than 23mm but I feel it'd be pointless to go any wider as it is quite fat. This rim is 24mm wide ...
The other benefit is that the 23mm tyre can have increased puncture protection, with a small weight increase, and still having low rotating weight/mass
So, there should be no need to run a 25/28mm on a 23mm or 24mm wide rim, but you can, and be able to run even lower air pressure and achieve even more comfort
Note though, that the internal dimension is also important to achieving the good effect of the wide rim. If the internal dimension is the same as the 20mm wide rim, that you are changing from, then there is no real benefit (probably no benefit in this case, although perhaps some aero benefit, maybe!).
The following rim is a good example of a good wide/aero rim http://www.bikehubstore.com/category-s/167.htm
thanks KL
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25
Postby jacks1071 » Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:56 am
You're forgetting that a wide rim is heavier than a narrower rim all else being equal.KL. wrote:Yes, that is the objective of the wider rim ... that you can use a narrower tyre, such as a 23mm tyre (and even a 22mm tyre, for low rotating weight/mass) on a 23mm or 24mm wide rim, run lower air pressure (5 to 10 psi without incurring snake bites/tube pinch punctures) but achieve similar comfort and corner grip to that achieved by running a 25mm or 28mm tyre ( which have higher rotating weight) on a 20mm wide rim. It even reduces the need to run tubularjacks1071 wrote:... Chip-seal roads, run wide tyres OR a wide rim. I haven't tried a tyre wider than 23mm but I feel it'd be pointless to go any wider as it is quite fat. This rim is 24mm wide ...
The other benefit is that the 23mm tyre can have increased puncture protection, with a small weight increase, and still having low rotating weight/mass
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25
Postby KL. » Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:18 pm
Wide rim weights are coming down in weight, slowly but surely (this link is an example ... http://www.bikehubstore.com/category-s/167.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ), especially CF rims, although their internal dimension are not so wide because of their issues with heat dissipation (they are improving though, as are wide alloy rims)jacks1071 wrote:... wide rim is heavier than a narrower rim all else being equal.KL. wrote:Yes, that is the objective of the wider rim ... that you can use a narrower tyre, such as a 23mm tyre (and even a 22mm tyre, for low rotating weight/mass) on a 23mm or 24mm wide rim, run lower air pressure (5 to 10 psi without incurring snake bites/tube pinch punctures) but achieve similar comfort and corner grip to that achieved by running a 25mm or 28mm tyre ( which have higher rotating weight) on a 20mm wide rim. It even reduces the need to run tubularjacks1071 wrote:... Chip-seal roads, run wide tyres OR a wide rim. I haven't tried a tyre wider than 23mm but I feel it'd be pointless to go any wider as it is quite fat. This rim is 24mm wide ...
The other benefit is that the 23mm tyre can have increased puncture protection, with a small weight increase, and still having low rotating weight/mass
The really nice aspect is that the outer most weight/mass of the rotating wheel, the tyre and tube remains low with hopefully only a small increase in rim weight, while achieving a more comfortable ride (lower tyre pressure) with better corner grip
thanks KL
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25
Postby warthog1 » Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:02 pm
I ride with blokes who seem to buy new road bikes more often than I buy new clothesgabrielle260 wrote: I'm feeling your pain Warthog!
Paying one set of private school fees now and will have two lots in 12 months time. Plans for a new bike are now dependent on winning tattslotto.... Only one problem - I need to buy a ticket!
Andrew
Good thing I'm happy with my bike anyway
We went the catholic school route for primary but luckily the local state high has a very good reputation with a committed and passionate principal
Those private school fees must be hurting but its a great investment. Kids are more important than bikes any day
I need to remind myself of that more often sometimes
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25
Postby KL. » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:01 am
There are wide 23mm clincher rims that weigh less than 400gms such as the Velocity A23, Stans A340, HED C2, etc, and these rims/wheelsets have been around for a while ...jacks1071 wrote: ... wide rim is heavier than a narrower rim all else being equal.
thanks KL
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25
Postby Wakatuki » Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:40 pm
They do 'feel' faster they certainly corner better. IMO
Male 188cm, 96kg rider, Scott Foil 40 7.8kg... BW (before water)
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Re: Tyre size 23 v 25
Postby Rex » Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:36 pm
Some even rub.
I want to get 24mm wide rims but afraid I'll have issues.
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