Bike Share

[birdbrain]

Why would any private operator be interested in any of these programs?

Want to buy Melbourne Bike Share? Bikes in near-mint condition (they've been little used), with secure parking at prime inner city locations. And now with courtesy helmets.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/buyer ... 2yqe5.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TORONTO - The City of Toronto has ridden to the rescue of the beleaguered Bixi bicycle sharing program.

Councillor Denzil Minnan-Wong announced Wednesday that the city has struck a deal with the bankrupt firm to obtain its fleet of bicycles and is now running its operations.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/12/04/ci ... ke-program" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[rodneycc]

Hmm Melbourne Bike share, Sounded like a good idea at the time and hats off to the Government for trying some kind of bike scheme but yeah its doing to die a slow and painful death I'd say.

I think the problem is two or three fold. 1) The Melbourne weather is not conducive to getting Mr and Mrs Melbournian off their fat backsides (I think I heard somewhere Victorian's have the most overweight population per capita in Oz). i.e Climate and motivation. 2) "The bikes themselves are all girls bikes" (well unisex), was one of my friends comments. And I reckon he might of been on the money with that comment. I had a good look the other day at one of the bikes and thought to myself I wouldn't really want to ride one of them and also couldn't see any half decent bike rider either casual or semi-serious would want to either. (i.e bike riders like their own bike and wouldn't use them).

So good luck to anyone who takes over this!

[mattwilkinson]

My sister hired a couple of bikes for like 4 hours and was charged $100

[rodneycc]

Yeah add the ridiculous cost. About $20 for two hours and then $10 per extra half an hour. Thought it should of been cheaper the longer you ride! Dumb and dumber pricing...

http://www.melbournebikeshare.com.au/pricing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[il padrone]

Hmm Melbourne Bike share, Sounded like a good idea at the time and hats off to the Government for trying some kind of bike scheme but yeah its doing to die a slow and painful death I'd say.

It'd be real good if I could take my hat off to the government, but I can't even wear it because I have to wear this damned helmet

I think the problem is two or three fold. 1) The Melbourne weather is not conducive to getting Mr and Mrs Melbournian off their fat backsides (I think I heard somewhere Victorian's have the most overweight population per capita in Oz). i.e Climate and motivation.

As opposed to the weather in Dublin ?? Or in Montreal ?? Or any one of the many hundreds of other successful Bikeshare schemes in countries with much more severe weather than Melbourne's.

2) "The bikes themselves are all girls bikes" (well unisex), was one of my friends comments. And I reckon he might of been on the money with that comment. I had a good look the other day at one of the bikes and thought to myself I wouldn't really want to ride one of them and also couldn't see any half decent bike rider either casual or semi-serious would want to either. (i.e bike riders like their own bike and wouldn't use them).

The bikes are all essentially the same in Bikeshares around the world. People everywhere else are not deterred by any "girl's bike" image. You're just a poseur rodneycc

Bikeshare is not aimed at cycle enthusiasts (yes they have their own bikes), it's aimed at the average non-cyclist commuter, shopper, tourist, and people with just a need to get about town.

[il padrone]

My sister hired a couple of bikes for like 4 hours and was charged $100

Well she went into it with her eyes closed then, more fool her.

These are not the sort of bikes you book a hire for your weekend holiday ride. The scheme is not intended for longer term hires, it is designed to get the bikes used for short jorneys - up to half an hour (or maybe an hour in some schemes) then dock the bike. If you need a return journey, hire a new bike when you return. This sort of journey would have cost her zilch!

The only downfall of Melbourne's Bikeshare (apart from the helmet law) is that there are too few bikes and the docking stations are too sparsely scattered. European schemes work on a docking station about every 200m.

[toolonglegs]

The other downfall might be trying to charge for it... my local bikeshare is just part of the public of the public transport system. If you have an ongoing public transport pass for buses on trains then using the bikes is free. If you don't have a monthly pass then it is still free up to 30 minutes at a time but you have to register online to receive your card.
Tourists can also register at the machines... you pay about 1 euro per day for trips under 30 minutes ... but you must pay a deposit of 150€.

[rodneycc]

Hmm Melbourne Bike share, Sounded like a good idea at the time and hats off to the Government for trying some kind of bike scheme but yeah its doing to die a slow and painful death I'd say.

It'd be real good if I could take my hat off to the government, but I can't even wear it because I have to wear this damned helmet

Hi IP not sure how this is coming to come put with a tapatalk with the quotes ( and my dodgy typing) so bear with me.

Helmets are apparently free for a trail period at the moment so thats a good incentive for some ( I guess not for you hey). But I was of the same thinking as you when the law got brought in all those years ago ( and I use to be guilty of riding around with the Stackhat strapped to the handle bars rather than my head in the early days) but I guess I just see helmets like seat belts now - just another safety device.

I think the problem is two or three fold. 1) The Melbourne weather is not conducive to getting Mr and Mrs Melbournian off their fat backsides (I think I heard somewhere Victorian's have the most overweight population per capita in Oz). i.e Climate and motivation.

As opposed to the weather in Dublin ?? Or in Montreal ?? Or any one of the many hundreds of other successful Bikeshare schemes in countries with much more severe weather than Melbourne's.

Yeah thats a fair point there. And I will add that Melbourne's strong culture of Football meat pies kangaroos and Holden cars has been gradually weaking the last 10 or 20 years. The love affair with the car is certainly on the wane which can only be good for bike share and cycling in general. Melbournians lack of physical movement is still a concern though ( to say Bris or Perth who in my mind are a lot healthier).
But have lived here all my life and with my European heritage also ( Italian father) so I can't be too critical of the place. I just don't see Kath and Kim using the bike share scheme if I had to use a cultural example.

2) "The bikes themselves are all girls bikes" (well unisex), was one of my friends comments. And I reckon he might of been on the money with that comment. I had a good look the other day at one of the bikes and thought to myself I wouldn't really want to ride one of them and also couldn't see any half decent bike rider either casual or semi-serious would want to either. (i.e bike riders like their own bike and wouldn't use them).

The bikes are all essentially the same in Bikeshares around the world. People everywhere else are not deterred by any "girl's bike" image. You're just a poseur rodneycc

Bikeshare is not aimed at cycle enthusiasts (yes they have their own bikes), it's aimed at the average non-cyclist commuter, shopper, tourist, and people with just a need to get about town.

Cmon IP, everybody has a little poser in themselves. Even your good self looking at your profile picture (which is very stylish by the way). Wonder how many people do a cost benefit analysis and buy the bike they should buy rather than buying the good looking all black model that looks like Mad Max's Interceptor . I'll take 2 of those thanks. One in a Giant Propel and the other in a Cannondale.

PS - love your work on BNA IP. Always very interesting point of view even if I don't agree with it. Cheers.

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[il padrone]

Thanks for the favourable comment

Helmets are the killer, no question. Only two bikeshares have significantly failed to get high useage - both of them in Australia with the MHL, Melbourne and Brisbane. Yes you can buy a helmet or carry and use your own, but most people (heck even me) will not bother with carrying a helmet about just because they might use a bikeshare bike today. The system's success relies on a high degree of spontaneity and a convenient, easy way to get about town. The need to carry a helmet destroys all that.

The fact that our government cannot see this (or is not willing to admit it) is a level of incompetence and dereliction of public duty with our taxes that is outrageous. The Auditor-General should haul them over the coals.

[rodneycc]

Ok thought that might happen with the quote swallowing up the content without ending the quotes. Oh well. Btw I didn't say myself they looked like girls bikes, my friend did but later concured with his observation. I know that's only two people's opinion without asking anyone else but you know I don't think we would be the only ones to think that. But just not that but rather our attitude of why bother if the bike isnt going to be anything special. Id rather a dedicated bike shop looking after the scheme with some brand name bikes rather than the vanilla approach but I guess the cost wouldn't be viable.



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[il padrone]

5000 trips per day.

People - ride - them

[rodneycc]

Thanks for the favourable comment

Helmets are the killer, no question. Only two bikeshares have significantly failed to get high useage - both of them in Australia with the MHL, Melbourne and Brisbane. Yes you can buy a helmet or carry and use your own, but most people (heck even me) will not bother with carrying a helmet about just because they might use a bikeshare bike today. The system's success relies on a high degree of spontaneity and a convenient, easy way to get about town. The need to carry a helmet destroys all that.

The fact that our government cannot see this (or is not willing to admit it) is a level of incompetence and dereliction of public duty with our taxes that is outrageous. The Auditor-General should haul them over the coals.

Yeah maybe that's why they are trialing free helmets. But you are also right about needing more stations to end your ticking meter journey. Interesting to hear Brisbane not really working either. I thought of all the places in Oz. Qld would be the place most likely to succeed.

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[il padrone]

From a study into reasons for non-use:

http://helmetfreedom.org/1818/study-con ... ike-share/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The authors note:


“Both schemes have approximately 0.3–0.4 trips per day per bike according to information supplied by the operators to the authors…..most other schemes internationally report usage rates of around 3–6 trips per bike per day.”

Every bike share scheme in the world except for Brisbane and Melbourne allows people to ride without helmets (which is perfectly safe).

No recommendations from this study to remove the helmet requirement though ??? (Study funded by CARRS-Q)

[rodneycc]

Ps yeah after watching the vid I get the convenience issue with carrying the helmet now as well.

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[rodneycc]

The other downfall might be trying to charge for it... my local bikeshare is just part of the public of the public transport system. If you have an ongoing public transport pass for buses on trains then using the bikes is free. If you don't have a monthly pass then it is still free up to 30 minutes at a time but you have to register online to receive your card.
Tourists can also register at the machines... you pay about 1 euro per day for trips under 30 minutes ... but you must pay a deposit of 150€.

I think this would be a great idea to improve Melb bike share scheme to try and tie it on with public transport via the myki swipe card. Might just improve two birds with one stone. Or kill botj systems

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[high_tea]

Thanks for the favourable comment

Helmets are the killer, no question. Only two bikeshares have significantly failed to get high useage - both of them in Australia with the MHL, Melbourne and Brisbane. Yes you can buy a helmet or carry and use your own, but most people (heck even me) will not bother with carrying a helmet about just because they might use a bikeshare bike today. The system's success relies on a high degree of spontaneity and a convenient, easy way to get about town. The need to carry a helmet destroys all that.

The fact that our government cannot see this (or is not willing to admit it) is a level of incompetence and dereliction of public duty with our taxes that is outrageous. The Auditor-General should haul them over the coals.

Yeah maybe that's why they are trialing free helmets. But you are also right about needing more stations to end your ticking meter journey. Interesting to hear Brisbane not really working either. I thought of all the places in Oz. Qld would be the place most likely to succeed.

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Hmm. I am a former Brisbane bikeshare user for the following reasons:

1. The signup/renewal procedure is too hard. When it came time to rassle with their website again, I just didn't bother. This was the big one for me.
2. The locations weren't much chop, not for where I was going anyway*. I could either ride on the road, which wasn't particularly pleasant, or on the footpath, which wasn't all that much quicker than walking. Especially not when the stations weren't located ideally for me.

Thing is, it was really just a convenience thing. It didn't really let me go anywhere I wasn't prepared to walk to. It saved a bit of time, which was nice, but I think I was exquisitely sensitive to inconvenience. When all something does for me is save a few minutes, it needs to be only slightly harder than walking or I'll just walk instead.

I haven't experienced the Dublin bikeshare scheme, but I have cycled in Dublin. I found it far more cycle-friendly than Brisbane in terms of climate, terrain and driver attitudes. I imagine that helps bikeshare uptake considerably. Helmets, meh, the helmet thing didn't especially bother me.

Assuming my attitude of exquisite inconvencience-insensitivity is typical of potential bikeshare users, it follows that you have to do a lot of things right to draw lots of punters. Brisbane, unfortunately, does quite a few things wrong.

[rodneycc]

Yeah thats another thing the same down here. I can maybe understand tourists using them but workers getting from A to B short distances (who mind you a lot would also use public transport hence that idea in tying it in is a good one) would rather walk or take a tram. So trams would be the big killer of the schemes is what I can see.


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[human909]

Wow so many people missing the point here. Helmets and the small scale of the system are the killers.

Why would any private operator be interested in any of these programs?

For their marketing and branding potential.

Councillor Denzil Minnan-Wong announced Wednesday that the city has struck a deal with the bankrupt firm to obtain its fleet of bicycles and is now running its operations.[/i]

Not at all relevant to the private operation of Melbourne's scheme. In Melbourne the operator wouldn't have to pay for the fleet!

But just not that but rather our attitude of why bother if the bike isnt going to be anything special. Id rather a dedicated bike shop looking after the scheme with some brand name bikes rather than the vanilla approach but I guess the cost wouldn't be viable.

I think you underestimating these bikes. Those bikes are very special, not cheap and certainly a better universal utility bike that 90% of bikes in most bike shops. These bikes are not targeted at cycling enthusiasts, nor should they be!

Yeah thats another thing the same down here. I can maybe understand tourists using them but workers getting from A to B short distances (who mind you a lot would also use public transport hence that idea in tying it in is a good one) would rather walk or take a tram. So trams would be the big killer of the schemes is what I can see.

Trams do not stop people from cycling in other countries, why would they stop them in Melbourne?

[rodneycc]

In winter I'd suggest people would rather catch a train\tram than a bike in the rain. And in summer the same because of the heat. Also most people live outside the city so they have already paid for transport in some way to get in and would be unwilling to fork out anything more for another mode of pt.

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[RonK]

In winter I'd suggest people would rather catch a train\tram than a bike in the rain. And in summer the same because of the heat. Also most people live outside the city so they have already paid for transport in some way to get in and would be unwilling to fork out anything more for another mode of pt.

This is a misunderstanding of the intent of the scheme - it's intended for short journeys in the CBD, not to commute.

[human909]

There are a multitude of reasons why people may choose not to ride a bicycle and instead take alternatives. These also exist in most cities around the world.

But you know what? When its there and its available then people give it a go. And then they do it again. And then such schemes take off. The problem is that people can't give it a go because it a helmets which they didn't take into the city that morning.

[rodneycc]

Yeah someone needs to design a flat pack helmet at zero cost

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[RonK]

It's quite apparent that there are many who like to push negative views about bike share schemes simply to support their anti-MHL agenda.

But it seems to me that they are being held to unreasonable standards. Let me ask - are all the seats on all the buses, trains, tram occupied every journey? Do buses, trains and trams profitable, or at least cost neutral? Of course they are not. Surely cyclists have a common interest to support bike schemes, not denigrate them.

Despite having four bikes of my own to choose from, I find the Brisbane scheme very convenient for my short trip to the office. I can ride in my office clothing, don't have to faff about with showers and changing, don't have to worry about bike security, and on a steamy Brisbane summer morning I'll arrive at the office much fresher than if I walk.

I don't find the web site at all difficult as a subscriber, but the system is too hard for casual users and visitors to get started and needs improvement. The single issue that prevents greater use is the lack of safe routes on the city streets. Brisbane CBD is divided by through roads bearing fast traffic and a maze of one-way streets. The only bike route is along the river bank, and that's not where many people need to go.

[human909]

It's quite apparent that there are many who like to push negative views about bike share schemes simply to support their anti-MHL agenda.

It seems quite apparent that those who like to push negative views about the lack of space in this conference room simply to support their "there is an elephant in this room" agenda.

But it seems to me that they are being held to unreasonable standards. Let me ask - are all the seats on all the buses, trains, tram occupied every journey? Do buses, trains and trams profitable, or at least cost neutral? Of course they are not. Surely cyclists have a common interest to support bike schemes, not denigrate them.

Unreasonable standards? No. I would love to see the scheme work well and not be hamstrung by stupid laws.

Despite having four bikes of my own to choose from, I find the Brisbane scheme very convenient for my short trip to the office. I can ride in my office clothing, don't have to faff about with showers and changing, don't have to worry about bike security, and on a steamy Brisbane summer morning I'll arrive at the office much fresher than if I walk.

Do the Brisbane bikes have air-con?

[RonK]

Do the Brisbane bikes have air-con?

Yes - of course.