Is it safe for kids to ride on the road?

g-boaf
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Is it safe for kids to ride on the road?

Postby g-boaf » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:53 pm

http://www.smh.com.au/executive-style/f ... 2zfo4.html

Some more inspiring click bait from SMH.

Personally, I think young kids don't have a place on the road given the way drivers behave around here (fish-tailing, burnouts, street racing, etc).

Perhaps if the speed limits were reduced to 30km/h on side streets, it might be more reasonable. And supplemented by signs indicating that "cars are guests".

The big problem with kids riding to school is that often schools discourage it (or forbid it) or otherwise, you have "mummy" in her big 2 ton heavy battering ram Range Rover or LandCruiser double-parking and only focused on her children and nothing else. I've seen them double park and when Police turn up, they'll proceed to have a roaring argument with the Police! :roll: Those types make it quite dangerous around school areas.

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Re: Is it safe for kids to ride on the road?

Postby ball bearing » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:01 pm

IMHO I do not believe that children under (AT) 10 years-old should be on the road, unless they are riding with a legal guardian. I know that some very young kids are super cyclists, but road riding requires skills that go far beyond handling a bike, it requires traffic sense.

From yesterday...

"A five-year-old boy who was hit by a car while riding his bike in Bunbury at the weekend has died in hospital."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-16/b ... section=wa

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Re: Is it safe for kids to ride on the road?

Postby g-boaf » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:10 pm

Yes, I did read that too. :( I don't think I can say anything more than what the emoticon suggests.

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queequeg
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Re: Is it safe for kids to ride on the road?

Postby queequeg » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:24 pm

I did a nice ride today and happened to be coming home at school pick up time.
As I went past the local public school, both sides of the road were lined with SUVs waiting for the kids to get out.
It was a very sad sight. When I went to primary school, just about everyone walked. Seeing all those luxury cars lined up at the public school made me weep for the future.
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Re: Is it safe for kids to ride on the road?

Postby Derny Driver » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:31 pm

Kids need to ride on the footpath until they are 12. I don't think cops would book 14 or 15 year olds for riding on the footpath either, even though it is "illegal". I ride a little motor scooter to work each day and the most dangerous time is when the mums are in their big rush to pick up their kids and race off to the shops or home or whatever. I have nearly been taken out several times in the afternoon madness.
My son started bike racing at age 14 and needed to train on roads, hence the scooter. Every time he trained, I went with him. just riding behind as rear guard buffer. Unless a person holds a driver's licence they do not know the road rules and are not able to anticipate what cars are doing. Road riding for under 18s is risky.
Even now he is 18 I go with him as often as I can. There is never a problem when the moto is there, cars give me a respectable distance no matter how slow we are going. Because I have ridden shotgun with him for 3 years, he now knows how to ride safely and avoid dangerous situations. When he goes out solo I am still slightly nervous but I know he is skilled up and I don't worry about him.
People with kids who ride, or wives who ride, should spend a grand and get a second hand scooter. You get to spend a couple of hours of quality time together, chatting, and you are keeping that person 100% safe. Riding alone is dodgy even for adults.

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Re: Is it safe for kids to ride on the road?

Postby bychosis » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:32 pm

While I don't think it is that dangerous for kids to ride on residential streets, the kids just don't have the road sense as a rule. No matter how much you try to drill into them about stopping, looking etc before crossing they just don't recognise the dangers EVERY time.

I will take my kids to school by bike next year when I can (RDOs) but, they won't be going unsupervised for a few more years yet, their school is a congested nightmare in the he mornings and afternoons without much in the way of footpaths either.
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Re: Is it safe for kids to ride on the road?

Postby il padrone » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:33 pm

queequeg wrote:As I went past the local public school, both sides of the road were lined with SUVs waiting for the kids to get out.

A scourge on our community. The most anti-social, selfish, "me-generation" behavour that makes the behaviours of a few lycra-louts look positively angelic.
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Re: Is it safe for kids to ride on the road?

Postby g-boaf » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:34 pm

yeah, the two private schools near my place are like that too. One is a catholic school, the other one I'm not sure about.

Roads lined with X5s, Prados, Range Rovers and other big SUVs. Surely many of these don't go that far. I remember much like you that if I wanted to get to school back when I was a boy, I had to walk the 1.5km distance. Rain, hail or stinking heat.

Derny Driver wrote:Kids need to ride on the footpath until they are 12. I don't think cops would book 14 or 15 year olds for riding on the footpath either, even though it is "illegal". I ride a little motor scooter to work each day and the most dangerous time is when the mums are in their big rush to pick up their kids and race off to the shops or home or whatever. I have nearly been taken out several times in the afternoon madness.
My son started bike racing at age 14 and needed to train on roads, hence the scooter. Every time he trained, I went with him. just riding behind as rear guard buffer. Unless a person holds a driver's licence they do not know the road rules and are not able to anticipate what cars are doing. Road riding for under 18s is risky.
Even now he is 18 I go with him as often as I can. There is never a problem when the moto is there, cars give me a respectable distance no matter how slow we are going. Because I have ridden shotgun with him for 3 years, he now knows how to ride safely and avoid dangerous situations. When he goes out solo I am still slightly nervous but I know he is skilled up and I don't worry about him.
People with kids who ride, or wives who ride, should spend a grand and get a second hand scooter. You get to spend a couple of hours of quality time together, chatting, and you are keeping that person 100% safe. Riding alone is dodgy even for adults.


You are a dad, so the slightly nervous bit is natural. I agree with you that riding alone is dodgy even for adults. When there are a few more riders along, motorists are a little better behaved.

I can remember back when I used to work in southern-Sydney (Hurstville), most afternoons I'd be walking back to the station to go home and I'd see this school kid who couldn't have been any more than 15 or 16 on the road on his road-bike, in the full kit (probably part of a cycling club) very confidently navigating the Forest Road peak-hour traffic. And if I remember right, holding station in the centre of the lane too.

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Re: Is it safe for kids to ride on the road?

Postby human909 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:18 pm

I find such attitudes even more saddening when they come from cyclists. Kids across the world manage to do just fine out on the roads and in the wider community. Are Australian kids somehow dumber than those in other countries?

Kids are perfectly fine to handle suburban streets. Multi-lane major roads, well they are best avoided by the kids themselves. Much of my youth I spent on the streets on my bike. I can't say I had any issues.


ball bearing wrote:IMHO I do not believe that children under (AT) 10 years-old should be on the road, unless they are riding with a legal guardian.

g-boaf wrote:Personally, I think young kids don't have a place on the road given the way drivers behave around here (fish-tailing, burnouts, street racing, etc).

:? :cry:

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Re: Is it safe for kids to ride on the road?

Postby il padrone » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:20 pm

human909 wrote:I find such attitudes even more saddening when they come from cyclists. Kids across the world manage to do just fine out on the roads and in the wider community. Are Australian kids somehow dumber than those in other countries?

Kids are perfectly fine to handle suburban streets. Multi-lane major roads, well they are best avoided by the kids themselves. Much of my youth I spent on the streets on my bike. I can't say I had any issues.

+1
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Re: Is it safe for kids to ride on the road?

Postby g-boaf » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:36 pm

human909 wrote:I find such attitudes even more saddening when they come from cyclists. Kids across the world manage to do just fine out on the roads and in the wider community. Are Australian kids somehow dumber than those in other countries?

Kids are perfectly fine to handle suburban streets. Multi-lane major roads, well they are best avoided by the kids themselves. Much of my youth I spent on the streets on my bike. I can't say I had any issues.


ball bearing wrote:IMHO I do not believe that children under (AT) 10 years-old should be on the road, unless they are riding with a legal guardian.

g-boaf wrote:Personally, I think young kids don't have a place on the road given the way drivers behave around here (fish-tailing, burnouts, street racing, etc).

:? :cry:


You both might think otherwise, but given the way they drive around here, it's just not safe. Just 1 hour ago we had a LP570/4 Superleggera go blasting up the street at what I estimate was 105km/h in a 60 zone, going by the engine note and the gear ratios that car has. And then it turns off into a suburban street (the type you've suggested is quite fine for a kid) and still drives like that.

Would you be happy for your young children to be near that car, going that quickly? Not a one off either. He's been going backwards and forwards all afternoon and evening making a right nuisance of himself.

I'm all happy for kids to ride on roads, but the car drivers need to have the fear of god struck into them so that they will behave themselves better. Because the current laws and registration plates on cars seem to have little influence on some drivers.

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Re: Is it safe for kids to ride on the road?

Postby human909 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:46 pm

g-boaf wrote:You both might think otherwise, but given the way they drive around here, it's just not safe. Just 1 hour ago we had a LP570/4 Superleggera go blasting up the street at what I estimate was 105km/h in a 60 zone, going by the engine note and the gear ratios that car has. And then it turns off into a suburban street (the type you've suggested is quite fine for a kid) and still drives like that.

Would you be happy for your young children to be near that car, going that quickly? Not a one off either. He's been going backwards and forwards all afternoon and evening making a right nuisance of himself.

I'm all happy for kids to ride on roads, but the car drivers need to have the fear of god struck into them so that they will behave themselves better. Because the current laws and registration plates on cars seem to have little influence on some drivers.


That sounds like idiocy. But I'm not sure how are kid riding along the road is at more risk of this behaviour than a adult riding along the road. I agree that there are some massive problems with road attitudes and motorist's behaviour. But affects adult cyclists as badly if not worse than child cyclists.

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Re: Is it safe for kids to ride on the road?

Postby il padrone » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:52 pm

Sounds to me like even pedestrians walking along those streets are not safe :o

Report to Police :idea: . Not enough people do this. If every resident on your street rang and reported this, the police might just get the idea - something needs to be done. We get some of that sort of tomfoolery on our streets, but mostly on Friday/Saturday nights after 10pm - not a time when I would allow young kids to go riding.
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Re: Is it safe for kids to ride on the road?

Postby TraceyG » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:59 pm

Derny Driver wrote:People with kids who ride, or wives who ride, should spend a grand and get a second hand scooter. You get to spend a couple of hours of quality time together, chatting, and you are keeping that person 100% safe. Riding alone is dodgy even for adults.


Hey Derny Driver, are you really suggesting that adult female cyclists need to be supervised or protected on the road? I suppose you think we shouldn't be in the workforce either, or perhaps we are not fit to drive alone as well?

That is a ridiculously outdated and offensive attitude based purely on gender.

Well, excuse me if I refuse to subscribe to it, cos this female cyclist - who also happens to be a wife AND a CEO - is just as safe and capable as any other equally experienced male cyclist and driver on the road.

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Re: Is it safe for kids to ride on the road?

Postby Derny Driver » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:28 pm

TraceyG wrote:
Derny Driver wrote:People with kids who ride, or wives who ride, should spend a grand and get a second hand scooter. You get to spend a couple of hours of quality time together, chatting, and you are keeping that person 100% safe. Riding alone is dodgy even for adults.


Hey Derny Driver, are you really suggesting that adult female cyclists need to be supervised or protected on the road? I suppose you think we shouldn't be in the workforce either, or perhaps we are not fit to drive alone as well?

That is a ridiculously outdated and offensive attitude based purely on gender.

Well, excuse me if I refuse to subscribe to it, cos this female cyclist - who also happens to be a wife AND a CEO - is just as safe and capable as any other equally experienced male cyclist and driver on the road.

My wife was harassed on a daily basis, she was yelled at, whistled at, had things thrown at her and was knocked off her bike once. When I started riding with her on the scooter, suddenly the problems stopped. And we enjoyed spending the time together as well.
Im actually quite an advocate for the rights of women, so I really don't mind what you think of me since you don't even know me. You are reading things into my post which aren't there.

I said riding ALONE is dangerous, male or female.
Me on a scooter makes 2 ... for the son, the wife, whoever. And a scooter is mnore visible than a bike.

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Re: Is it safe for kids to ride on the road?

Postby human909 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:37 pm

Derny Driver wrote: You are reading things into my post which aren't there.

They certainly seemed to be there. Though maybe you didn't mean it. After all you did mention children and wives. You didn't mention brothers, friends or other guys. The inference was there for the reader.

Derny Driver wrote:I said riding ALONE is dangerous, male or female.

Most of us can't afford to have an escort for every ride. I personally don't see that riding alone is dangerous.

Oh and from the research I've seen and from personal experience it seems that male cyclists are at greater risk on the roads from motorists than female cyclists.

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Re: Is it safe for kids to ride on the road?

Postby g-boaf » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:43 pm

I don't think the angry motorist necessarily looks at cyclists as either male or female.

Cyclist equals enemy. Cyclist must be taught lesson.

That seems to be the standard mindset which is reinforced by shock jocks and by outdated share the road messages that are continually twisted by motorists into share the road equals "get out of my way or else".

That message in particular has outlived its usefulness and needs to be replaced with something that cannot be misconstrued.

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Re: Is it safe for kids to ride on the road?

Postby Derny Driver » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:19 am

human909 wrote: The inference was there for the reader....
I personally don't see that riding alone is dangerous.
[/quote]
Ive re-read what I wrote and still cant see any inference that suggests that I think female cyclists need to be supervised. If people are seeing that, well its not my intention.

Riding alone IS dangerous, riding with a partner is much safer because 2 cyclists abreast are more visible to drivers. I know for a fact, from personal experience, that riding next to, or behind a cycling friend/wife/son/daughter/brother, on a scooter or motorbike, reduces the risk of incidents with cars by 100%. In 5 years of doing this, I have NEVER had a horn honked at us, never been abused, never had a car come dangerously close. Before knocking the idea, people should try it. If people have to ride alone (and most people do) then go ahead.

The reason children under 10 years old are not allowed on road is not due to a nanny state or over-protective adults. Its because studies show their peripheral vision and hearing is not yet fully developed.
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Re: Is it safe for kids to ride on the road?

Postby il padrone » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:25 am

Derny Driver wrote:The reason children under 10 years old are not allowed on road

Umm.... which road rule was it that you are going by for that statement????

Nothing but utter twaddle my friend :roll:


From that link you gave:

When are children ready to ride?

Children mature at different rates, both physically and psychologically. Every child is unique and ages are only a guide. Parents and guardians need to use their own best judgement about a child's skill and maturity
Last edited by il padrone on Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is it safe for kids to ride on the road?

Postby DavidS » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:26 am

human909 wrote:I find such attitudes even more saddening when they come from cyclists. Kids across the world manage to do just fine out on the roads and in the wider community. Are Australian kids somehow dumber than those in other countries?

Kids are perfectly fine to handle suburban streets. Multi-lane major roads, well they are best avoided by the kids themselves. Much of my youth I spent on the streets on my bike. I can't say I had any issues.


ball bearing wrote:IMHO I do not believe that children under (AT) 10 years-old should be on the road, unless they are riding with a legal guardian.

g-boaf wrote:Personally, I think young kids don't have a place on the road given the way drivers behave around here (fish-tailing, burnouts, street racing, etc).

:? :cry:


I agree. I was riding on major highways when I was 8. Remember those were the days when, despite the fact that the population was about half it is today and car ownership was less common, the road toll was about triple what it is today, and kids riding bikes on the road was seen as normal. What the hell went wrong? Why do we now feel that cycling is too dangerous for kids, even more, why do we feel it is so dangerous we need to wear a helmet? What the hell went wrong??

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Re: Is it safe for kids to ride on the road?

Postby queequeg » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:42 am

Half of the streets in my local area don't even have a footpath, so it doesn't leave any option other than to use the road, except of course we have to deal with morons who think that a 50km/h limit is just a suggestion, not a rule.
I guess when they build streets these days, they figure that nobody walks anywhere so why bother with a footpath.
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Re: Is it safe for kids to ride on the road?

Postby Derny Driver » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:45 am

il padrone wrote:
Derny Driver wrote:The reason children under 10 years old are not allowed on road

Umm.... which road rule was it that you are going by for that statement????

Nothing but utter twaddle my friend :roll:

That would be the RTA / NSW Government rule for children under 12.
Section 6
http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety/do ... sheets.pdf

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Re: Is it safe for kids to ride on the road?

Postby Derny Driver » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:52 am

il padrone wrote:From that link you gave:

When are children ready to ride?

Children mature at different rates, both physically and psychologically. Every child is unique and ages are only a guide. Parents and guardians need to use their own best judgement about a child's skill and maturity

The link never talks about riding on roads. Its about riding to school on the footpath with your parents.

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Re: Is it safe for kids to ride on the road?

Postby il padrone » Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:16 am

Derny Driver wrote:
il padrone wrote:
Derny Driver wrote:The reason children under 10 years old are not allowed on road

Umm.... which road rule was it that you are going by for that statement????

Nothing but utter twaddle my friend :roll:

That would be the RTA / NSW Government rule for children under 12.
Section 6
http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety/do ... sheets.pdf

That is not a road rule, simply a set of recommendations for child supervision on the streets - riding or walking. There is no road rule that says "children under 10 years old are not allowed on the road".
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Re: Is it safe for kids to ride on the road?

Postby g-boaf » Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:26 am

Gee, the lynch mob is out in force isn't it?

If I'd known the topic was going to get this kind of response, I wouldn't have posted it. :|

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