Next step
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Next step
Postby choco27 » Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:10 pm
What I would like to know is what should I do next? should I keep doing one 100km ride a week(approx 3 & half hours) to help get my weight down or should I do shorter rides with more intensity?
Thanks in advance for any advice
cheers
choco
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- g-boaf
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Re: Next step
Postby g-boaf » Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:03 pm
You could try doing 2 100km rides a week, or maybe 3. Or start trying to ride faster than before, take in some more hills if there are some nearby.
And one stage I was doing 4-5 100km rides per week. I was getting down under 60kg doing that, even with fairly rubbish eating habits. It takes some effort to get the body to accept doing that, but it can be done provided you don't ramp up the kms too suddenly. You've also got to take care of recovery, have a couple of rest days in between and your leg muscles get sore or tight, use a foam roller to free them up and ease up the soreness.
I did that because I wanted to - not for any other reason. My mind and heart isn't into racing, even though I've tried it a few times.
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Re: Next step
Postby macca33 » Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:02 pm
Crawf wrote:A bit of everything, keep the body guessing.
Sounds good - do hard efforts to raise your threshold and also remember to do some recovery rides too.
Great effort on your improved fitness/wellbeing too Choco.
cheers
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Re: Next step
Postby Xplora » Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:14 pm
Just be careful with your "next step". I injured myself after overdoing it, and I lost about 3-4 months of fitness. So much I think I'll have to drop a grade when I restart racing.
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Re: Next step
Postby choco27 » Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:19 pm
Actually you got it spot onXplora wrote:What do you want to do choco? Lose more weight? Get faster? Start racing? It might be worthwhile riding a single 160km instead of a pair of 100s, maybe once a fortnight. You'll naturally be digging deeper deeper deeper to get that extra distance managed. Exponentially harder. 100kms is hard, 200kms is three times harder, 300kms is 9 times harder. Once you've peeled off 120kms, you will be on autopilot.
Just be careful with your "next step". I injured myself after overdoing it, and I lost about 3-4 months of fitness. So much I think I'll have to drop a grade when I restart racing.
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Re: Next step
Postby Derny Driver » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:03 pm
I would start at the other end and learn how to ride 10km properly, then 20, then 30 and so on.
200k a week is not really a lot, and on the other hand it is enough. When I was tied up with job and family I used to do 4 x 50km rides each week, then race. It was enough to win B grade almost at will, and to be competitive in A grade. To be better than that I had to step it up a bit.
I would suggest you stick to rides of between 40km minimum and 60 maximum for a while. Learn to ride that distance correctly, that is with good pedalling cadence, nice still relaxed upper body and arms. Do that 4 or 5 days a week. Don't do consecutive hard days. Don't do more than 2 hard rides a week. Variety is very important. Vary where you go, some days hilly, undulating, others flat. Some days ride fairly hard in sections, some days just twiddle along nice and easy. If you want to ride flat out, make it only for 20km of the ride, not the whole way. Some rides can be short and fast, others longer and slower. after a few months of doing this sort of thing you could throw in ONE longer ride each week, say 80-100km. I see absolutely no benefit in riding more that 100km unless you are racing over distances like that, which you aren't. Most club races are 30-40km and people don't get dropped because of the distance, its because of the speed. When you get to the stage of starting racing you can do some really short interval stuff or track training or things like that to help build speed.
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Re: Next step
Postby Xplora » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:32 pm
I think having a big ride at least once a month really stretches your endurance abilities. The Strava Gran Fondo series has made so many riders I know ascend to the next level it's not even funny. It's adjusting your body from saying "yay I finished a 100" to "You know, I reckon I could do that 130 in 4 hours moving if the bunch went for it". I've averaged over 30kmh solo for 130kms in serious heat, that was the result of lots and lots of training, but also saying to myself that a 3 hour century isn't enough to brag about. Work towards consistently pulling 3 hour 100s on that ride, you'll do well.
Bear in mind also that Derny's genetics are quite good for cycling, his kids are quite handy on a bike too
In the end, you've done awesome, don't kill yourself, just work towards doing what you are doing a little bit faster, 1-2 minutes at a time.
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Re: Next step
Postby Derny Driver » Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:23 pm
Mate I wouldn't deny that my dad was quite a champ and my young bloke goes alright, but there has been plenty of light hearted banter in my family about how genes skip a generation .. I was just an average plugger. Nevertheless I think my observations run true as I have seen plenty of average or less than average guys punch above their weight with the right sort of training as I have described. Build up nice and gradually and vary what you do. Race regularly. Err on the side of less training rather than too much. Lots of sleep is absolutely vital. Also, you will struggle to lose weigh purely by bike riding, its a load bearing activity ..you will need to combine a specific diet with the riding.Xplora wrote: Bear in mind also that Derny's genetics are quite good for cycling, his kids are quite handy on a bike too
PS I only have one son, the other belongs to my brother, although he practically lives at my place.
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Re: Next step
Postby g-boaf » Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:18 am
While I did do a lot of 100km rides per week once, I don't do them now. It's only a single 130km+ ride per week, and it's at Z2 with cadence supposed to be more than 95rpm. Most of what I'm doing is barely more than 30km now that I look at it.
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Re: Next step
Postby wombatK » Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:49 am
Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us -Jerry Garcia
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Re: Next step
Postby choco27 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:17 am
Below are the big rides I have done in order off strava conditions eg wind affected me on some of them, thanks again for your advice and thoughts I'll mix things up from now on and see how things go.Xplora wrote:To add to what to Derny has said - the big thing is making sure your rides are a good solid length. You can't do 50kms in less than 90 minutes. So, DD was getting 4 good solid hitouts a week, plus the race. You don't build your base with super intense rides, but with nice long rides. Try and do your 100kms in 3 hours moving. Spend some more time on the front during your hundred.
I think having a big ride at least once a month really stretches your endurance abilities. The Strava Gran Fondo series has made so many riders I know ascend to the next level it's not even funny. It's adjusting your body from saying "yay I finished a 100" to "You know, I reckon I could do that 130 in 4 hours moving if the bunch went for it". I've averaged over 30kmh solo for 130kms in serious heat, that was the result of lots and lots of training, but also saying to myself that a 3 hour century isn't enough to brag about. Work towards consistently pulling 3 hour 100s on that ride, you'll do well.
Bear in mind also that Derny's genetics are quite good for cycling, his kids are quite handy on a bike too
In the end, you've done awesome, don't kill yourself, just work towards doing what you are doing a little bit faster, 1-2 minutes at a time.
115.3km
Avg Max
Speed 26.3km/h 52.9km/h
Heartrate 131bpm 169bpm
Calories 2,441
Elapsed Time 4:28:00
101.8km
Avg Max
Speed 29.3km/h 54.7km/h
Heartrate 149bpm 167bpm
Calories 2,223
Time 3:28:41
105km
Avg Max
Speed 28.1km/h 41.0km/h
Heartrate 149bpm 169bpm
Cadence 89 132
Calories 2,100
Temperature 13℃
time 3.44.22
107.2km
Avg Max
Speed 29.6km/h 60.1km/h
Cadence 91 126
Calories 2,318
Temperature 11℃
time 3.36.57
102.3km
Avg Max
Speed 28.2km/h 47.2km/h
Heartrate 144bpm 164bpm
Cadence 88 141
Calories 2,101
Temperature 10℃
time 3.37.49
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Re: Next step
Postby Ross » Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:31 am
Sounds like it. If I only rode 4 x 50km a week I wouldn't even see the back of E grade.Xplora wrote: Bear in mind also that Derny's genetics are quite good for cycling, his kids are quite handy on a bike too
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Re: Next step
Postby Xplora » Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:45 am
That might give you something more tangible to work towards. If you try this and end up on your back all afternoon asleep, maybe just do it for 10kms. Once you hit that 30, aim for 30.5, 31, 32. Don't do it for the whole ride straight away, this is "sorta" interval training.
Something I've realised in racing is that a lot of the game is knowing when to spend the bikkies - but it always happens right at the end. I prefer to break and TT home, but most of the sprinters are content to ride their 100 and put on the hurt in the last 2kms, letting the afterburners on with 300m to go. That last 2kms is really hard work if you've been attacking and breaking for the rest of the race (which is why I often get dropped by the bunch on the bell lap if I don't get away).
If you aren't pretending you're Greipel in the sprint to the coffee shop, start doing it. This is as close to race conditions as you will ever see. Trek Rouse Hill's coffee sprint actually an enormous grind from 5kms out, with some good gentle hills to thin out the pack before the final bang. This is just like a race. Everyone gets on their limit right at the end. You can't do this alone, by the way. You need the red mist to spur you on. You can collapse at the coffee shop
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Re: Next step
Postby Ryanhyltoncummins » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:39 pm
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Re: Next step
Postby foo on patrol » Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:55 pm
Ahh but it is how you do them there Ks!Ross wrote:Sounds like it. If I only rode 4 x 50km a week I wouldn't even see the back of E grade.Xplora wrote: Bear in mind also that Derny's genetics are quite good for cycling, his kids are quite handy on a bike too
I know a bloke that rides Masters 8 or 9 I believe and is only a second slower than he was 35yrs ago and only does 100klms a week.
Here is my take on things for you Chocco!
Not knowing how much riding you have done over the past 12mths, I would be doing some standing starts, till you are on top of the gear and then roll out of it. Do these half a dozen times three times a week.
Never been a big believer in do doing stupidly big Ks just do a big ride once a month. Big/long rides do on a small gear and the shorter ones, you hammer yourself but not day after day.
Foo
Goal 6000km
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Re: Next step
Postby choco27 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:41 pm
I've only been riding from the start of this year and will turn 50 next month, age doesn't bother me still feel the same as I did when I was younger the common feedback is mix up what I'm doing I'll let you guys know in a months time how things have progressed using advice from everyone here.foo on patrol wrote:Ahh but it is how you do them there Ks!Ross wrote:Sounds like it. If I only rode 4 x 50km a week I wouldn't even see the back of E grade.Xplora wrote: Bear in mind also that Derny's genetics are quite good for cycling, his kids are quite handy on a bike too
I know a bloke that rides Masters 8 or 9 I believe and is only a second slower than he was 35yrs ago and only does 100klms a week.
Here is my take on things for you Chocco!
Not knowing how much riding you have done over the past 12mths, I would be doing some standing starts, till you are on top of the gear and then roll out of it. Do these half a dozen times three times a week.
Never been a big believer in do doing stupidly big Ks just do a big ride once a month. Big/long rides do on a small gear and the shorter ones, you hammer yourself but not day after day.
Foo
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Re: Next step
Postby foo on patrol » Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:32 pm
Foo
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Re: Next step
Postby choco27 » Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:58 am
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Re: Next step
Postby Xplora » Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:03 pm
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Re: Next step
Postby cerb » Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:06 pm
I think DD is spot on in his details above.
But again, emphasizing Xplora's point. I know quite a few people who have ramped up training too quickly and done themselves injuries which have then kept them off the bike for 3-6 months and still affect their performance for months after that. It is a 'low impact' sport, but it does place high stresses on the body as a whole when racing or doing endurance riding.Xplora wrote:Recovery is key
Recover properly and give your body time to adjust to changes you make. A week or two off the bike now and again will slow your improvements temporarily, but may let you keep going for a lot longer. Ramp your training gradually up and down over a few weeks, don't increase and decrease in big steps!
Personally, I take the 3 months of May-July off 'training' and just do social rides, before starting to build again for crit season in October.
*looks at date* hmmm... better get on that!
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Re: Next step
Postby Xplora » Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:35 pm
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Re: Next step
Postby Pedaling » Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:38 pm
Some of the things that helped my cycling are;
1. You lose weight in the kitchen, not on the bike. Portion size!
2. Pedaling technique at different cadences. Get some coaching!
3. Stretching to avoid injuries and help you become more aero on the bike.
4. Concentrate on your breathing.
5. Listen to your body, if you're tired, make your training suit. Eg, do some "silly spins".
6. Don't confuse training and racing.
And most importantly, have fun!
Cheers,
Darrin.
2012 C59 Colnago
2013 Giant TCR
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Re: Next step
Postby choco27 » Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:52 am
Doing most of the things you've listed Darrin I haven't yet done any racing although guys keep putting pressure on me to come out but I honestly want to spend a good 12 months on the bike before hand really enjoying my riding as is at the moment, going on holidays and be off the bike for 3 weeks although might do some MTB around San Francisco next weekPedaling wrote:Hey Choco, great advice above.
Some of the things that helped my cycling are;
1. You lose weight in the kitchen, not on the bike. Portion size!
2. Pedaling technique at different cadences. Get some coaching!
3. Stretching to avoid injuries and help you become more aero on the bike.
4. Concentrate on your breathing.
5. Listen to your body, if you're tired, make your training suit. Eg, do some "silly spins".
6. Don't confuse training and racing.
And most importantly, have fun!
Cheers,
Darrin.
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Re: Next step
Postby Xplora » Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:28 pm
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