10 speed or 9 speed........or 8 speed
10 speed or 9 speed........or 8 speed
Postby MountGower » Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:45 pm
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Postby tinstaafl » Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:53 pm
I can't understand what the possible advantage is?
I know that you get three extra combinations but I only use about five or six right now.
I suppose that the extra combinations may be good for spreading the load over a few different cogs instead of the one favourite gear.
How much more finicky will the set be. Mine is already a pain with the smallest cable stretch. How fine are the tolerances becoming?
Robert
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Postby heavymetal » Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:55 pm
I use a 24 speed, because I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this what the LBS said), the 9 speed and above chains are thinner. Pedalling a tourer with a load does have a stretching effect on the chain.
I prefer the 24 speed as there is not too many gears, and I have fiddled with the ratios on my tourer a bit to get them nice and close. The bike is fitted with a 9 speed rear derailleur, but I'm running friction shifters, so I don't really need any more gears.
Anyhow my next bike, an expedition bike, is probably going to be 24 speed, but using one of those internal hubs, and an 8 speed cluster. This will rid me of the front chain rings and the associated problems I've had with them.
The reason that I'm not going for a Rohloff internal 15 speed is that I can't afford it
Kev.
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Postby europa » Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:59 pm
I've actually got a far wider spread of gears than a normal road cluster would have, yet the differences in gears (two tooth jumps for the most part) are rather slight - I can easily identify with the thought that 10 speed is too many.
Then there's the reliability issue - 9 speed is flimsy and 10 speed is even more so. Maybe it's not an issue, but you don't need mechanical issues when riding and it's when things get a bit tired that they start not to work as well.
But then again, I bet all of this was said when they went from five gears to six to seven to eight to ... And I'm sure the old timers rolled their eyes in horror when they introduced the freewheel, let alone the first derailleurs.
So I'm voting for none of the above. Nine speed was on the bike, but I would have been happy with eight and probably wouldn't have batted an eyelid if it had come with ten. Which isn't to say I don't change my bike - I'm about to fit a smaller granny, and changing the stem, changed the bar end shifters for brifters at purchase, etc.
Richard
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Re: 10 speed or 9 speed........or 8 speed
Postby MichaelB » Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:04 pm
No problems here - my new bike is 9 speed rear wioth Shimano 105, but was eyeing up a spare NIB part at a bargain price if ever I had an issue - not that I'd want to chnage it for any other reason.MountGower wrote:MichaelB wrote this in another thread:
I thought it could be frustrating for the original poster if I picked up on this comment and completely derailed the coversation.Eyeing off a 9 speed Ultegra rear derailleur (New - old stock) as well as a spare, but might be getting carried away.....
I recently started using a 10 speed group set. My old road bike actually has an 8 speed cluster, so I bypassed the 9 speed era. I'm not the type to turf the 8s just because the 9s are out.(My MTB has LX/XT 9 speed and I like it a lot). To be honest I am dissapointed with it for one reason. It's just too many gears as far as I am concerned. I get lost, I knew where I was by feel before, now I go to the big ring too early. I know I will get the feel soon enough though. I'm sure some other people are really happy with their 10 speeds and hopefully will convince me. I won't change it because I'm not into chucking things over small quibbles.
I got rid of gimmickry by getting a chromed, lugged steel frame but got the 10 speed gimmick with it. Oh well, it's not that bad, I'm just wondering how others feel about this.
I certainly understand why MichaelB is going for a brand new 9 speed. He is not going to pay for gimmickry and will get the same quality as if buying the new 10 speed derailieur(someone tell me how to spell that). The Ultegra matches up in quality with my MTB gear and I'm sure he'll love it.
Any thoughts?
Previously had a 7 speed rear on the MTB, and as I'm now road riding, I appreciate the smaller jumps in a 9 speed (MTB cluster was 11 - 28, and new bike is 12 - 26).
Only having two rings on tghe front is a chnage that makes the hills more of a challenge, but a 7kg lighter bike helps that ...
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Postby tuco » Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:38 pm
Don't 9s and 10s give the same top and bottom gears and it's just the extra between gears which make changing from one to another less noticeable?
It relatively flat here so I didn't see the point of the extra expense of 9 or 10 speeds.
Someone asked if 9 and 10 chains are thinner. I'm pretty sure they are.
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Postby mikesbytes » Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:54 pm
Bikes in the future will probably be 10 speed, whether we like it or not, so thats a major reason to get 10 speed. I run 9 speed and see no reason what so ever to change to 10 speed.
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Postby LuckyPierre » Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:16 pm
With Shimano gear, all HG chains are the same 'width', so the compatability chart shows that it can be used with 8 and 9 speed (and a lot of 7 speed too) cassettes and derailleurs. However, 10 speed is different (thinner) and isn't 'backwards compatible'. Similarly, the older UG (6 and some 7 speed) gear is thicker and isn't 'upwards compatible'. Because the HG spec crosses over into mtb gear, some (well, a lot really) of that is compatible too!
I've started to learn about Campagnolo stuff too, but it's still all Greek to me (or should that be Italian?)
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Postby Mulger bill » Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:52 pm
Deni runs 9x Tiagra
There's been 1x 3x 5x 6x 7x under me too over the years.
AFAIK, talking MTB, 7 and 8 speed chains are the same thickness, 9 speeds are thinner. Don't know of any 10x MTB gear at this time.
What worries me with these huge numbers is the dish on the back wheel to fit them in, Denis right hub flange looks to be almost right under the rim.
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Postby mikesbytes » Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:53 pm
Burn plenty of Glycogen
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Postby Halfanewb » Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:49 am
With the 7 i had often found myself in conditions where one gear was too high and the next selection was too low to maintain a "comfortable" cadence/speed combination over a long period.
The 10 spd cluster for me is definitely smoother for acceleration and easier on the legs as it doesn't require a greater amount of leg strength to accelerate and i can stay in my best torque/cadence combo. On the 7 speed this process used to leave my legs weakened by lactic acid buildup to the point where once i reached the desired speed/gear often i couldn't maintain it.
All of the above can be overcome with better fitness and riding technique for sure, but the 10 spd gives me more options and lets not forget the bling factor!
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Postby europa » Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:48 am
Richard
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Postby Halfanewb » Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:30 pm
But tbh even if it does wear out quicker the cost of a new cassette and chain is under $200 and for me thats an acceptable price in the grand scheme of things (looking at my quarterly rates bill of $387).
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Postby Mulger bill » Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:36 pm
Wish I knew, there's a fair bit of CFC stuff out there, not just XC either. Scott has put out a Freeride bike, and boutique Kiwis Lahar have an internal gearbox, full carbon Downhill race bike.
The situation with groups seems to be more evolutionary, lighter stiffer stronger, improved shifting and reliability. IMO, thin 10 speed chains are the weak link (groan) in the plan to sell 30 speed MTBs.
Suspension and shock design seems to be where a lot of effort is taking place, the holy grail being light, stiff, mechanically efficient and independant.
Slap me if you will, but it seems to me that roadie design has been pretty much perfected and standardised in the diamond frame, only material and construction method being different, is there really that much more development possible in roadie design? Not that component makers aren't trying hard to keep up broke with new "must have"widgets released almost daily.
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Postby europa » Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:04 am
Richard
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Postby mikesbytes » Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:28 am
I wouldn't expect to see any quantim leaps with racers like what has happened with MTB's.
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Postby mikesbytes » Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:54 pm
Burn plenty of Glycogen
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Postby heavymetal » Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:35 pm
Is that why it took you so long to dig that trench?mikesbytes wrote:The Doctor is for people like me who seriously over do it and need to be carted off in an ambulance.
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