Officially requested to 'Slow Down Sir' - City of Stirling

[bigadz]

hi peeps,
I've enjoyed reading this thread as I've also been quite fed up for a while with the whole being stuck in between angry/stupid/ignorant drivers and oblivious pedestrians. Many a time I've had to ask couples to not take up both lanes of a PSP/RSP (I'm not sure which is which anymore), swerve for a lady pushing a pram onto a PSP, without looking and whilst talking on the phone (i guess the pram must have "crumple zones"), stop for groups of people gathered over the entire width of PSP's to chat, and only last night I was involved in an collision where a cyclist in front of me failed to see a walker, who was wearing all black, until the last second, on a very dark section of path on the river in Maylands.
What i do love, however, is the [very short] section of path west of the causeway in South Perth that is divided for walkers and cyclists. What a great, common sense idea! Any possibility we can see more of these from councils, or whoever is responsible for them?

[ColinOldnCranky]

Well, you've just lost one person to your bike paths up in the northern suburbs! I'll stay down in the souther suburbs,where i'm not told how to ride.

You're going to tell me off for not having a bell? Tough, i'm not putting one on my bike. I have a voice & know how to use it whilst i'm cycling.

Crazy - I don't find people squawking "Bike!" to be as effective as a bell. I hear a bell and I am instantly aware, I hear a voice and it may or may not alert me in the very short time frame and regrardless it requires a bit more processing than a bell.. I ride the southern suburbs tooso how about fitting one for me and your fellow cyclists and peds?

Obviously this is addressed not just to Crazy. Too many cyclists, for some reason, find bells beneath them. And in my experience that would be close to a majority. What is it with this anathaema to a bell on the bike anyway? If it is hard to get to in an emergency then sure, use the voice as the fallback. The rest of the time use it.)

[blkmcs]

Well, you've just lost one person to your bike paths up in the northern suburbs! I'll stay down in the souther suburbs,where i'm not told how to ride.

You're going to tell me off for not having a bell? Tough, i'm not putting one on my bike. I have a voice & know how to use it whilst i'm cycling.

Crazy - I don't find people squawking "Bike!" to be as effective as a bell. I hear a bell and I am instantly aware, I hear a voice and it may or may not alert me in the very short time frame and regrardless it requires a bit more processing than a bell.. I ride the southern suburbs tooso how about fitting one for me and your fellow cyclists and peds?

Obviously this is addressed not just to Crazy. Too many cyclists, for some reason, find bells beneath them. And in my experience that would be close to a majority. What is it with this anathaema to a bell on the bike anyway? If it is hard to get to in an emergency then sure, use the voice as the fallback. The rest of the time use it.)

+1
I find a bell very effective.

Non cyclists just don't understand the tribal calls of the bell haters, but almost everyone associates a bell with a bike.

[casual_cyclist]

I don't find people squawking "Bike!" to be as effective as a bell. I hear a bell and I am instantly aware, I hear a voice and it may or may not alert me in the very short time frame and regrardless it requires a bit more processing than a bell.

I find a bell very effective.
Non cyclists just don't understand the tribal calls of the bell haters, but almost everyone associates a bell with a bike.

I have found the opposite. I have a bell and have used it in the past but I didn't find it very effective. I also found my bell "startled" peds a lot more than a voice call. Also, I often get thanked for calling but never got thanked for using my bell. I find a call can be a lot more personal and I thank peds on the way past or call good morning or good afternoon. Bells are pretty impersonal and don't do anything to break down ped/cyclist barriers.

[fixed]

Rather than screaming BIKE I find a ting of the bell from twenty metres out four or five seconds out, a "good morning" or "hello" and a "thanks" works pretty well, (while slowing down and anticipating the lemming move) YMMV

[Colin_T]

I use both the bell & my voice. If I'm feeling unsociable I use the bell, it's quite impersonal but effective. If I'm feeling pleasant and sociable I will say excuse me as I approach pedestrians. I repeat that several times if they don't respond straight away. Sometimes people just ignore you and then I say "LOOK OUT" and most people move. Again tho some don't and I had a lady school teacher deliberately stand in the middle of the path gossiping to her students about how to behave and she was blocking the path with her pupils. I had a chat to her about keeping left and road rules and how it was a shared path and how she should be setting a better example for her students.

Other times I've had to go bush and ride in the dirt to get past people hogging the paths. I had a lady abuse me for riding on the shared path around the South Perth foreshore many years ago before they provided separate lanes for cyclists. It was dusk and she had a go at me and made a big fuss about us being on the path and going too fast. We had lights and bells and gave her and her friends plenty of warning but she didn't care. We had a good ol argument, which attracted the attention of numerous onlookers. In the end we left with her calling us names and saying we need to slow down to walking pace, and be more visible. We replied by saying she was stupid & inconsiderate for wearing dark clothes when out at night and not having any lights, and not moving for other people.

[crazycanuck]

I understand some folks like bells but..I think they're annoying. In addition to that, people ring them 6-7 times which I think is excessive & rude. You want me to move out of your way, announce yourself & move on.

[Marty Moose]

Yeh I don't use a bell I scream "get out of the way walking looser" then I pass within mm and blow my nose, in this cold weather it works a treat. Not really I use my voice and say "excuse me" and always say "thankyou" very rare to get abused, I can't think of anytime using this method I've been spoken too in a bad way.

MM

[ColinOldnCranky]

In my case these days a few gentle "excuse me"'s are as good as a bell. I did for a while sing out "ding ding" but it did not always elicit a favourable response.

I suppose, to be less dogmatic, an "excuse me"has no down side if the rider is not hurrying too much, and that would be most riders on the Kwinana Freeway. Those riding faster (and I have little objection to that - there are many reasons people ride and there are many ways of motivating yourself) can say excuse me as pleasantly and often as they like but I am concerned about the possibility more than whether a ped or other cyclist gets annoyed. If nice is *really* what you seek, then it has to be slower riding when approaching slower people. Anything else is somewhere else on the continuum.

[Aushiker]

Hi

This "joint operation by the City of Stirling and WA Police" got a mention in the Stirling Scoop in the May 18, 2010 issue of the Stirling Times (page 23).

The interesting comments from the article titled "Operation Cycle Aware" where:

Last month cyclists on West Coast Drive, Watermans Bay where cautioned about matters such as speeding, wearing helmets and the use of lights. While some cyclists where aware that the Road Traffic Code applied to shared paths, many where genuinely unaware and were given information leaflets by the City.

The operation was a success and many cyclists who had not considered their speed to be a problem, agreed that 20kph was a reasonable speed for a shared path once they had reflect on the risks and became aware that all paths users have a responsibility to respect each other, in the same way that motorists need to be aware of cyclists on public roads.

I am interested in the leaflet so have asked the City of Stirling for a copy. Maybe I should also ask when they intended to mount Operation Pedestrian Aware and Operation Motorist Aware in the same locality

Regards
Andrew

[Aushiker]

Hi

For those interested the leaflet being handed out is this one, which can be downloaded from the Department of Transport website. My thanks to the City of Stirling Travelsmart Officer and the City's Special Projects & Support Engineer for the document.

Regards
Andrew

[Marty Moose]

One thing I don't get about the night requirements is why do we have to have reflectors fitted when the pedestrians don't have to carry light to illuminate the reflectors? Without outside light the reflector is useless!

I still don't ride on the paths much as I go over 20kph most of the time but if I did what are the chances of me killing someone? If I get hit by a car I'm sure the odds are much higher so how bout a "motorist aware program" instead of constant negative current affair programs.

Then we need a pedestrian how to read a "keep left" sign program and keep your dog on a lead program etc etc. To me it seems just another slam by big brother on cyclists program.

[soennecken]

West Coast Highway should be a one-way street for cars, with the other half of the road given over to cyclists riding in both directions.

Having lived on West Coast Drive for decades, and as a pedestrian, dog-walker, cyclist and car driver, I think that this is a marvellous idea, and would support it strongly if the City of Stirling contemplated implementing it.

[soennecken]

In fact many cyclists utilise the road and are safely overtaken in part because of the calming effect of the median islands.

After reading this there is no doubt where citywomble is coming from. what a fine little speech. Its good that some opf the powers that be feel a need to have someone placate us here.
Don't get me wrong it is good to have input from all sources that way we can be better informed, and thankyou for your information. The last post is stretching credibility just a tad far though on more than one point.
having lived near and ridden many times from northbeach to whitfords the narrow little sections; which seem to be worse just before the observatory and is shocking just before the MAAC club, which actually scared me onto the footpath a couple of times. Added the huge amount of work traffic that commute home on the west coast hyw; I can inform you that the median strips do nothing more than put mirrors nearer to me.

There are far too many of these stupid little median islands along West Coast Drive. They prevent motorists from safely overtaking cyclists. They also create a serious hazard during rubbish collection. I have several videos of motor vehicles overtaking the garbage truck on the wrong side of the traffic islands, sometimes against oncoming traffic. Apart from being dangerous, this is illegal (you can look for it in RTC 2000, which has been quoted too many times already in this forum). Half of the islands could be removed, still providing safe crossing points for pedestrians, and leaving much longer stretches for motor vehicles to overtake cyclists.

[gdl_gdl]

I can inform you that the median strips do nothing more than put mirrors nearer to me.

Completely agree! Even worse is when you know a car is about to overtake during the median strip and you can see a sandbank / rubbish mound approaching which means you are going to venture away from the kerb. With the medians in place, you know the car has no flexibility to move.

Cheers,

Gary

[Aushiker]

Bring this thread back from the dead as Mains Road (?) has advised on a speed limit change on a section of West Coast Drive, a reduction in speed from 60 km/h to 50 km/h. The section in question is from The Plaza (I assume that is North Beach Road) to Hepburn Avenue and it will come into play on Monday 10 December, 2012.

A small change in our favour I would suggest.

Andrew

[ColinOldnCranky]

Bring this thread back from the dead as Mains Road (?) has advised on a speed limit change on a section of West Coast Drive, a reduction in speed from 60 km/h to 50 km/h. The section in question is from The Plaza (I assume that is North Beach Road) to Hepburn Avenue and it will come into play on Monday 10 December, 2012.

A small change in our favour I would suggest.

Andrew

Damn. Does that mean I now have to slow down? Aaaaaaaaaaaarrgggggggggggg.

[Trepidious]

Bring this thread back from the dead as Mains Road (?) has advised on a speed limit change on a section of West Coast Drive, a reduction in speed from 60 km/h to 50 km/h. The section in question is from The Plaza (I assume that is North Beach Road) to Hepburn Avenue and it will come into play on Monday 10 December, 2012.

A small change in our favour I would suggest.

Andrew

It's not as impressive as you might think. 'The Plaza' is a little street near Sorrento Beach Resort and BWS is, just south of the boat harbour - it's really only a small section of the road where we have a cycle lane anyway.

The rest of West Coast Drive south of The Plaza and all the way past Karrinyup road has been 50 km/hr for as long as I can remember. Doubt it's going to change much for cyclists but it's a bit of common sense imo to standardise the speed limits.

[rolandp]

I have to agree with Trepidious. For me, the only benefit will be I will feel slightly safer when turning right at the round-about from West Coast Drive onto Hepburne Ave.

Now, if they reduced the speed on North Beach Rd to 30km (there are sections where traffic is lucky to reach this limit), then I would be impressed, as I try to avoid cycling on the shared path due to the volume of pedesdrians (anyone see the irony in City of Joondalup indicating their section of the shared path be funded by their Bike Plan.

[wellington_street]

Now, if they reduced the speed on North Beach Rd to 30km (there are sections where traffic is lucky to reach this limit), then I would be impressed, as I try to avoid cycling on the shared path due to the volume of pedesdrians (anyone see the irony in City of Joondalup indicating their section of the shared path be funded by their Bike Plan.

Cycling infrastructure is not just for commuters or lycra warriors. The volume of cyclists using the path is probably higher than the number using the road.

[rolandp]

So some cyclists are not allowed to ride the shared path. All pedesdrians are. Why then was it 100% funded by the City of Joondalup's Bike Plan?

OK for a proportion of it to be funded, but why the 100%.

[wellington_street]

So some cyclists are not allowed to ride the shared path. All pedesdrians are. Why then was it 100% funded by the City of Joondalup's Bike Plan?

OK for a proportion of it to be funded, but why the 100%.

What cyclists are not allowed on the shared path?

[wellington_street]

There has been some debate over the hazards posed by the medians on West Coast Drive and the jury is about 50/50 on whether they actually make the road safer. Hopefully further improvements can be made and a request for the installation of a bike lane and reduction in motor traffic lane to empower cyclists (and slow traffic speeds) is currently with state government agencies.

5 years on from this post and no action has been taken by any agency to provide a safer riding environment along West Coast Drive.
citywomble, can you enlighten us at all?

[rolandp]

There has been some debate over the hazards posed by the medians on West Coast Drive and the jury is about 50/50 on whether they actually make the road safer. Hopefully further improvements can be made and a request for the installation of a bike lane and reduction in motor traffic lane to empower cyclists (and slow traffic speeds) is currently with state government agencies.

5 years on from this post and no action has been taken by any agency to provide a safer riding environment along West Coast Drive.
citywomble, can you enlighten us at all?

I'll take the first stab at this one. Around 3-4 years ago, there was a local government grant for COS to install cycle lanes around the Karrinyup Rd roundabout. This didn't occur as they couldn't get agreement from MRWA, so the grant went unspent.

You now have CoJ rebuilding the West Coast Dr in their control (ie the north section and ends around the surf club). This includes pulling up every pedestrian crossing (or more commonly called medium strips) and adjusting the eastern edge. The tarmac has been totally relaid, the pedestrian crossings reinstalled (including cutting into the shared path, so further reducing the effective width of the shared path), and just needs road markings- and no sign of cycle lanes. Potentially the road lanes may be slightly wider as a result, but the number of cars that overtaking me and you can hear the 'clink' of their tyres as the travel over the temporary metal road markings, suggests they still don't have the required width to pass me safely.

I'm too fast for the shared path (when I was told off 5 years ago, I felt I was travelling safely for the RSP) and the road I get beeped at and told to ride on the footpath by some motorist (their wording).

If there was a cycle path on West Coast Hway, I would use it, but there is not either. Even a medium strip would be nice, but there are sections of West Coast Hway with nothing, and those cars are doing 80kph.

So the choices are limited, and I take West Coast Dr, and ride on the road.

My personal view, reduce the speed limit on this road. I'm taking a stab, it is a rat run for motorists instead of West Coast Hwy. We're not getting the support for cycle lanes, so at least reduce the speed.

[Thoglette]

I'm taking a stab, it is a rat run for motorists instead of West Coast Hwy.

That's as much of a stab as guessing that the sub will come up tomorrow morning.

Some enforcement would be a start. I get beeped at when observing the speed limit IN MY CAR