new or used bike?
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new or used bike?
Postby Wanta-bike » Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:30 pm
atm, i'm consdiering either gettin a brand spanking new roadie, or a 2nd hand one.
my budget is absolutely no more than $2500. i'm mainly be using it as part of me training and commuting to and from work every so often (which may increase over time!). i know that in terms of reliablity, i really shouldn't go less than shimano 105's.... i've been offered a used look bike as follows:
- 2005 Look 555 road bike; 51cm
- frame: full carbon
- Shimano 9spd Ultegra shifters, cranks
- Dura Ace rear deraillieur
- Scud stem and bars
- Mavic Ksyrium Elite Wheels
- Michelin Pro Race tyres
the seller is asking $1800. apparently has been fully serviced with cables replaced
thus, am after your thoughts! should i go the used or get a new one? as for that price i can get a new one, tho running 105's and a mix of alum frame/carbon forks....
cheers in advance
jon
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Postby mikesbytes » Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:00 am
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Postby europa » Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:31 am
You want carbon? Fine. Good choice for many reasons, but buy new or make pedantically sure that frame is in pristine condition - absolutely no indication of a bingle. Carbon frames are tough, they aren't delicate little things that'll shatter at the slightest contact, but unless that bike has spent its career under YOUR bottom, you have no idea of what it has gone through or how well it has been looked after (remember, there is a difference between maintaining a bike properly and just keeping it shiny, amateur mechanics and even lousy pros can stuff things up).
Now, the other comment about 105. I don't know who you've been listening to but you don't have to buy 105 to get reliability. Ask Mike about Tiagra - he does over 12,000 km a year on a bike fitted with a Tiagra groupset, the bike is a couple of years old now and while he natters about a lot of things, you don't find him talking about unreliability.
Yes, as you step up through the range of groupsets, you get longer life and better quality components (I ride Ultegra and the difference between that and Tiagra is startling), but to say you have to start at 105 is nonsense ... and isn't it interesting that this is the start of the racing groupsets.
Mate, look around lots and buy the best you can. I'd counsell against buying a second hand carbon frame if you don't know the history of the bike.
Richard
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Postby LuckyPierre » Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:35 am
As you have probalby noticed, there's quite a few new bikes in the $2,500 range - but not many of them will be full carbon frames with full Ultegra (albeit 9-speed) and Ksyrium Elites. In fact, I don't think that you'll find one!
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Postby Bnej » Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:55 am
It has a Tiagra set, which so far (not long) I have found pretty good. The shifts and trim controls are nice, and the triple chain ring setup suits where I live very well.
A well kept set of any type will last for ages and work fine, they'll differ in weight, materials, etc. and certainly more expensive will be better, but OTOH if you wear out cheaper parts, you can save money replacing them, or you can upgrade as you go.
Won't comment much on the Look bike, but make sure it's your size and you get it adjusted for you. You can be very uncomfortable if it's too small/large. Also be sure you want to be bending forward that far, you may prefer a more comfortable riding position if you are not racing. My OCR has the seat about the same height as the bars and is plenty fast enough at this point in my road riding experience.
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Postby wndrdr1111 » Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:33 am
Where are you? If in melbourne then freedom machine has some really good deals on Giant OCR carbon bikes. You can get a 07 OCR C2 for $1999. That is a really good price for a full carbon bike with 105 running gear. OCR C1 is $500 more.
Like others said, you can get a really good deal on a used bike but you won't know the bike's history and it might not be a perfect fit (unless you were fitted on the same bike and know the frame size that suits you).
Good luck with getting the bike.
Cheers,
Tom
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Postby Wanta-bike » Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:54 pm
thankee for the inside info so far
1st off, yes i trust the seller. hasn't been in any sort of crash/accident. apparently the only "damage" to the frame is a chip near the bottom bracket....
i'm 76.8% sure that the frame will fit me as i'm only like 5'5" and ride a
small sized mtb (yes, i know the geometries are different.....); and i'm planning to test ride before i decide; as i definately know the consequences of an ill fitting bike
wndrdr1111: i am actually in melb and i've checked out their bikes. tho must've missed that 07 OCR C2.....
chees again for the help so far! will let u guys know how i go
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Postby stryker84 » Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:10 pm
just from a basic physics standpoint, if it's iron or alloy, there will be allowances for stretch and strain on the frame, with carbon it seems to me there'd be much MUCH less elasticity/flex in the frame, even though the material itself is strong, if structural integrity has been compromised, you're more likely to snap the frame.
not sure how this applies to the bike though, but just my 2c.
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Postby Mulger bill » Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:02 pm
Carbon frames, do they run some sort of insert in places like the BB and headset? I assume carbon wouldn't take kindly to threading?
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Postby Bnej » Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:11 pm
Anything that's screwed in, there's a metal thread inside. There are torque limits on most things you can damage by applying excessive force.Mulger bill wrote:I'm with Stryker re ignorance, but life is an education...
Carbon frames, do they run some sort of insert in places like the BB and headset? I assume carbon wouldn't take kindly to threading?
A chip or scrape can be harmless on a carbon frame, e.g, from a rock hitting the frame after bouncing off the road. It can also be from something more serious.
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new or used
Postby bigbuzz73 » Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:39 pm
I recently found myself in the same position as yourself... $2500.00 budget for a roadie after riding MTBs for years.
I bought a new Bianchi Via Nirone 7 Alu/Carbon. I didn't want a full carbon frame, just forks and rear stays for a bit of comfort. I'm an ex RAAF Aircraft Fitter and having worked on F/A 18 Hornet airframe, I've had a bit of experience with carbon fibre. I must agree with Europa, in that any damage to carbon fibre is a bit like an iceberg... what you see is only the tip!
An example I recall is seeing a 12 mm spanner dropped on a Hornet wing that left a tiny dent. On carrying out an ultrasonic inspection, it was found an area of about 200 mm square had to be replaced. The damage that occurs in this material is like a spider web below the surface.
Buying second hand you have no idea what is below that "tiny little knick" in the carbon... Caveat Emptor when buying second hand.
Good luck with your purchase... Enjoy the experience, it's heaps of fun!
Wayne
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Re: new or used
Postby Wanta-bike » Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:11 pm
haha! nice analogy! i'm a (junior) marine scientist, and know exactly what u mean!bigbuzz73 wrote:Hi Wanta-bike,
....in that any damage to carbon fibre is a bit like an iceberg... what you see is only the tip! ....
well i've re-read the email i got from the seller regarding any damage to the frame. apparently the chip near the BB is from the chain dropping off on its first ride. i guess we'll see when i have a goooooood look over the whole thing. hopefully soon-ish!
cheers once more ppls! greatly appreciated!
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Re: new or used
Postby heavymetal » Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:14 am
Another one. So am I. I've been out 20 years almost. I used to fly...... a deskbigbuzz73 wrote:I'm an ex RAAF
Kev.
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Re: new or used
Postby MichaelB » Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:55 am
Snap, me too. Ex Aircraft Systech working on P3 Orions. Out since 1995.heavymetal wrote:Another one. So am I. I've been out 20 years almost. I used to fly...... a deskbigbuzz73 wrote:I'm an ex RAAF
Kev.
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Postby Wanta-bike » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:21 pm
well, as it turns out, that Look 555 road bike got sold to another person thus the needles point towards gettin a brand spankin new one!
after much hunting around and lookin on the net n' stuff, its pretty much come down to a few bikes:
- Giant OCR C2 or C1 ("105's" or "Ultegra" respecitvely....)
- Shogun Team Issue
- a full carbon Azzurri bike (not sure whether to get the "105" or "Ultegra" spec'd bike....)
- that Cell bike that's about $2300-ish, carbon frame, ultegra gear....
for some reason i want a full carbon frame, tho not entirely sure that it'll be necessary. the shogun has carbon forks and seat stay, running ultegra gear - only $1900!
only problem i have about Cell bikes are that i'll have to order it over internet and i can't ride the thing b4 i get it. anyone have a cell bike here?
again, any info would be greatly appreciated
cheers in advance,
jon
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Postby amattinson » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:27 pm
They also sell Scott bikes so that may be another option within your price range and you can always go to the shop in Stanmore and talk to them.
Cheers
Andrew
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Postby Wanta-bike » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:34 pm
yeah, i'd love to go into their store and have a chat to em, but they're in NSW, i'm in melb, Vic. thus, the reason for having to order over the net
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Postby Bnej » Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:13 pm
If you're used to MTBs you might find the OCR geometry more comfortable at first. Think some of the TCRs might also be in your range, which are the more race oriented Giants.
That said, I've seen quite a few Cell bikes around and they don't look bad.
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Postby wndrdr1111 » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:33 am
Any particular reason why you want a full carbon bike? My brother just bought a Giant OCR1 (carbon forks, stays and seat post) with 105 running gear for around $1600 from freedom machine. He loves it, although my personal preference would be for ultegra running gear as it just feels a little nicer. I think freedom machine still have specials on OCR C series bikes. Check out their website.
Good luck and keep us posted!
Cheers,
Tom
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Postby LuckyPierre » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:48 am
I rode a full carbon, full Ultegra bike with a retail price of $2,499 the other day. So, what's old about that do I hear you say? It was a Nishiki, that's what.
It seems that the Nishiki brand is being floated in a few stores by a supplier to see how it goes. The bike was a good example of the mi-$2000 price point and felt light and responsive over my short (30 minutes) reasonably flat ride.
Until I started my 'secret project', I was going to buy the carbon monocoque Azzurri Primo - which is around the mid-$2000 price point and I think is good value for money - especially if you friendly enough with the shop to get Ultegra level wheels as well.
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Postby Wanta-bike » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:40 pm
not 100% sure why i want full carbon, tho it does giv u a "comfier" ride and i've been told that transfer of energy is much more efficient. weight wise, the bikes i've been lookin at are all about 8-9ish kgs.... also that toss factor of sayin "i've got a full carbon bike"wndrdr1111 wrote: ....Any particular reason why you want a full carbon bike? My brother just bought a Giant OCR1 (carbon forks, stays and seat post) with 105 running gear for around $1600 from freedom machine. He loves it, although my personal preference would be for ultegra running gear as it just feels a little nicer. I think freedom machine still have specials on OCR C series bikes. Check out their website....
yeah i've cheked out the freedom machine's website and they got some pretty sweet deals on their giant bikes. quick question ppls:
when giant says that their "OCR C1, C2 and C3's are a "carbon composite" frame, does this mean its carbon mixed in with alloy? as opposed to "monocoque carbon" that i've noticed is on azzurri bikes?
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