New CX028 carbon disc build notes/review

waynohh
Posts: 1050
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:05 am

New CX028 carbon disc build notes/review

Postby waynohh » Wed May 17, 2017 10:24 am

As background, my previous bikes are:

2005 Giant XTC NRS (dual susp) (XT, Mavic)
2009 Giant XTC (XT, Hope/Mavic) 11Kg
2009 Giant XTC Alliance (XT, Hope/Mavic) 9.7Kg

2009 Scott CR1
Shimano Ultegra then SRAM Rival - 2x10, 50-34T, 11-25T
Mavic Ksyriums Elites, then Fulcrum Racing 3's which were total garbage, then Stans Alpha 340
Hutchinson Fusion tubeless 23mm
FSA K-Force carbon (80mm reach, 125mm drop) compact bars - 44cm
FSA carbon seat post
7.6Kg with pedals
Around $3700 in final config.

2011 Kinesis Crosslight FiveT (Rival, Mavic)
SRAM Rival - 2x10, 45-34T, 11-28T
Leftover Mavic Ksyirums and Aksiums
Conti Sport Contact - 35mm
FSA Omega alloy compact (80mm reach, 125mm drop) bars - 42cm
FSA carbon seat post
9.2Kg with pedals
Around $2000 in final config.

Basicially, I started commuting on mtb, but after persevering for a while with pre-existing injuries that made mtb uncomfortable, I finally switched to road and gave the mtb's away. Then I built a CX bike for commuting 70km a day and didn't have much motivation left to ride the road bike on the weekend. Then sold everything when my work changed. All were tubeless except the Crosslight.


Here's the specs of the new "multi-purpose" bike.
The hubs and tyres on this sucker roll pretty fast so this sucker should be good up to 200km or so.

Frame: "Miracle" CX028 - BB30, flat mount disc frame, 40mm clearance (which is overkill), 15mm front, 12mm rear
Tyres: Schwalbe G-One Speed TLE - 30mm
Rims: "Farsports" FSC30CM-25TCX - 25mm wide, 30mm deep, disc rims, no rim bed holes
Hubs: DT Swiss 350 straight pull centre lock disc, 15mm front, 12mm rear
Spokes: 28H 2x lacing
BB: "First" BB30 to GXP adapter - Press fit cups that thread together.
Cranks: SRAM S350-1 GXP 42T
Group: SRAM Rival 1x 11-36T
Brakes: SRAM Rival post mount
Discs: Shimano RT81
Axles: "Miracle' - Appear to be a copy of DT Swiss E-thru axles.
Stem: Deda alloy
Tape: Lizard Skins 3.2mm
Bars: "FCCB" - Appear to be a copy of early 3T Ergonova with external cable routing instead of internal, 77mm reach, 125mm drop. They also have definite copies of the FSA K-Force I used to use, but those don't have as good cable routing. Both have the same compact shape and flat tops.
Saddle: "GUB 1158" - Appear to be a copy of a Prologo Nago PAS from the downturned nose. I thought it was going to be a copy of the toupe which I had on both my bikes proviously. Also bought a bare carbon one as a spare. They don't cost much so if it doesn't work out I'll go pay retail from specialized.

Other garbage:
Shimano lockring for 15mm thru axle
Shimano adapters for flat mount frame to post mount caliper
Avid Bleed Kit
Valves, sealant, rim strips, etc

Cost:
$3300

Weight:
8.2Kg with tubes and pedals,
7.9Kg without pedals, cages, computer, etc.


Here are some I the off the shelf bikes I was considering. All of these would require an additional $300 at a minimum for different tyres and saddle. Some would need cassete or chainring changes and different bars.

2017 Cannondale CAADX Apex 1 $2700
2017 Norco Threshold Carbon Rival1 $2500 8.9Kg
2017 Vitus Bikes Energie Pro $2600 8.4Kg
Merida CycloCross 5000 $2820 8.9Kg
2016 Flanders Blade 3.0 Rival 1 $3000
Boardman Elite CXR 9.4 Sram Force $3500 8.4Kg
Bike16 Apollo ARCTEC CX Matte Carbon $3770
2016 Flanders Blade 3.0 Force 1 $3900
2016 Cannondale SuperX Rival CX1 $3900 8.2Kg
2017 Focus Mares Rival 1 $4000 7.7Kg
Colnago Prestige (Force - 2017) $4400
2017 Focus Mares Force 1 $5500
2017 Cannondale SuperX Force 1 $6300

Not on this list but the bike that I think is a bargain would be the Polygon Bend CT5. It comes with Schwalbe S-One 700x30c (not tubeless), compact bars, flat mount SRAM Rival calipers, very low gearing (probably too low).


Brakes:

I assumed groupsets now would be flat mount by default, due to Shimano making the flat mount "standard", and me not paying enough attention. In reality, I probably would have still got the same frame instead of an older post mount frame. SRAM flat mount calipers are hard to come by.
Internal cable routing means cutting and bleeding brake lines. It also means an extra $60 for a bleed kit.
The rear brake lever has a lot more travel and less feel than the front. I've bled the front once and the rear 3 times and have no leaks. I'm starting to think this is by design for some stupid reason. If that's the case then you'd be screwed if you wanted to swap the right lever to the front caliper. Apart from that it's not noticable.

Frame:

I have full length outer for the single gear cable, running it above the bottom bracket.
The rear brake line runs in the groove next to the cable guide under the bottom bracket.
The headset, seat post, clamp, thru axles don't come with the frame and are extra cost.
The frame also doesn't come with chainstay protection, bottle cage bolts (M5) or bolts for the rear flat mount calipers (M5x35).
I've had to order another seat post from a different vendor with a clamp that isn't the entire length of the saddle rails.
The bars from Miracle are total garbage. Aliexpress gave me a refund for those and I ordered different bars from FCCB. The FCCB ones are excellent. I've ordered a second 40cm set for my GF's Trek Domane which comes with 44's.
The FCCB bars have a deep groove for external cables underneath. They fit the brake lines easily. The gear cable I put just behind the goove. You can't feel the brake lines on the tops at all and only just feel the gear cable if you stretch your fingers underneath. I'd wager they'd fit both brake and gear cables.
Both the replacement seat post and bars are cheaper than the Miracle crap.

Wheels:

Originally I ordered a wheel build from CRC with WTB Frequency I-19 rims on Hope hubs. They cancelled my order because the hubs weren't in stock, even though they showed in stock. I wish I'd just waited for them to come back in stock and re-ordered, or better yet just ordered the rims and some DT350's and got them built locally.

Instead, I ordered the chinese carbon wheels. They were out of stock and took about 3 weeks to ship. The rim profile pictured on the site shows that the rim has UST style bead locks inside the rim. The actual rims received have nothing of the sort. They have an outer width of 25mm, but inside is only 18mm.

The rim diameter seems to be a bit small and the G-One tyres wouldn't inflate without tape.
I added WTB tape (yellow same as stans) and then the tyres inflated easily enough.
There's no point not having rim holes when you need to tape the bloody things anyway.

With the tape, the tyres simply fall off the shelf anywhere within the recommended pressure of 50-80psi, due to the rim not having the bead locks.

Next step was to look at all the Bontrager TLR rim strips which include bead locks and try to find ones with the correct width.
I ordered 2 of the narrowest strips from my local Trek store. The first one went on without issue, the second one wouldn't go under the bead hook on about a third of one side. They stretch when applied so you don't get any second chances if they don't go on perfectly first time.

At this point I've blown around $70 on tape and strips, and the trek store takes a week to order in the strips, hence wishing for the WTB UST style rims.

The 30mm tyres measure 30mm on the rim.
I thought pehaps I'd get slightly more width, but obviously not with the inner width being only 18mm.


Conclusions so far regarding the Chinese stuff:

Most of the open mould quality is rather good in relation to basic functionality.
Where these Chinese guys fall down seems to be understanding simple things that make the best products.
The exception are the FCCB bars, which have a better design than what I can get retail.

Here's examples of what I mean:

Wheels: Work great using tubes. Tyres on by hand Utterly fail for tubeless even though marketed as tubeless specific. Instead of changing and testing a rim profile that actually works, the only difference is the spoke holes.

Miracle seat post: The super wide clamp removes any possible adjustment. It's seems they just choose a seat post at random to rip off without any thought of whether other better designs exist which they could rip off instead.
Miracle bars: The gritty clamp area wasn't centered on the bars, the clamp area for levers was off, and worst of all the shape of the tops was garbage - they should have ripped off a better design, same as the seat post.


Before finishing my bike, I found a 2013 Trek Domane 5.2 for my GF. That frame looks like it would easily take 32mm tyres.
After replacing cables, front mech, bars and saddle for her the whole bike will be around $1600.
That is a lot of bike for half the price of mine.


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jasonc
Posts: 9432
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:40 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: New CX028 carbon disc build notes/review

Postby jasonc » Thu May 25, 2017 7:13 pm

great build. next commuter will have discs
Image

chalkie
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:14 pm

Re: New CX028 carbon disc build notes/review

Postby chalkie » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:23 pm

Do you have a link for the source of your handlebars, please. Googling has not thrown up a sensible result.
Thanks

User avatar
MichaelB
Posts: 8298
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:29 am
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Re: New CX028 carbon disc build notes/review

Postby MichaelB » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:00 am

Some interesting comments there waynohh re the variable quality re the items that you got. I guess, that is the crux for most of the items - the more you pay, the better the quality control is.

If possible, can you provide a link to the FCCB bars ?

When you said the Miracle bars and seatpost were not up to scratch, was it basic design or quality ?

Even though the rear brakes have been bled multiple times, it still sounds like air in the system. Let it settle, and try again.

thanks for the info

waynohh
Posts: 1050
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:05 am

Re: New CX028 carbon disc build notes/review

Postby waynohh » Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:12 pm

I bought a second set of the same bars from the same seller for my GF's 56cm domane in 40cm size.
The only thing to note is routing the cables under instead of in front is trickier with most shifters.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2017-se ... 0.0.9q6AcB

Bars with weird shape tops.
"HB014"
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Miralce ... 0.0.MdNj4p

Original post is not bad, it just has a super wide clamp that limits adjustment.
"SP09"
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-Fa ... 0.0.MdNj4p

I bought one of these to get a narrower clamp area. It's not like brand name single bolt posts where the top loop is low profile. It was almost impossible to get the saddle (Specialized Power Comp) in the clamp due to how high the stack is above the rails.
220g in 350mm length, yet to be cut down - it's resting right on top of the bottle cage screw.
"SP08"
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Sh ... 0.0.9q6AcB

I also bought the cheapest 2 bolt post I could find, the finish was ok, but it measured 26.8mm, so I got a refund for that garbage.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Carbon- ... 0.0.BKXUlK

Miracle store:
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/114868 ... 0.0.5hy3gb
Axles:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2017-QR ... 0.0.PIdgzA
Headset:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-sh ... 0.0.hn6W64
Clamp:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Miracle ... 0.0.hn6W64

Wheels:
I've bottomed out the front once and the rear a couple of times on gutters, with no noticeable damage/impact.
Still, Mavic's new Road UST standard will be a godsend compared to the loose tolerances these types of wheels and tyres.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/FSC30CM ... 0.0.PIdgzA

Lights:
I've bought 2 of these from 2 diff vendors. Super fast to remove and charge. Bright enough for on road, wouldn't use for mtb. And use superflashes on the rear.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/WHEEL-U ... 0.0.PIdgzA
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/GACIRON ... 0.0.yqdDFm

Finish is generally good, tolerances for some things are garbage and in those cases you get a refund if it's not as advertised.

waynohh
Posts: 1050
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:05 am

Re: New CX028 carbon disc build notes/review

Postby waynohh » Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:23 pm

MichaelB wrote:Some interesting comments there waynohh re the variable quality re the items that you got. I guess, that is the crux for most of the items - the more you pay, the better the quality control is.


I'd definitely pay for more compliance, which is not something engineered into the Chinese stuff.
I'll take the simplicity of the Chinese internal cable routing over the Domane nightmare any day though.

User avatar
MichaelB
Posts: 8298
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:29 am
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Re: New CX028 carbon disc build notes/review

Postby MichaelB » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:04 pm

waynohh wrote:I bought a second set of the same bars from the same seller for my GF's 56cm domane in 40cm size.
The only thing to note is routing the cables under instead of in front is trickier with most shifters.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2017-se ... 0.0.9q6AcB

.


seems very similar to my 3T Ergonova

waynohh
Posts: 1050
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:05 am

Re: New CX028 carbon disc build notes/review

Postby waynohh » Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:40 pm

MichaelB wrote:
waynohh wrote:I bought a second set of the same bars from the same seller for my GF's 56cm domane in 40cm size.
The only thing to note is routing the cables under instead of in front is trickier with most shifters.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2017-se ... 0.0.9q6AcB

.


seems very similar to my 3T Ergonova


Yes, exactly like the initial version, before they changed to internal cr.

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