Will Vic allow bikes on footpaths soon (2017)?

flywheels
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:10 pm
Location: Vic. World, non tribal

Re: Will Vic allow bikes on footpaths soon (2017)?

Postby flywheels » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:32 pm

Thank you all (incl. AdelaidePeter for sharing the experience and find-bruce for OH&S info).

Several points of views raised, and appreciated. I would say:

Regarding bikes on paths
:
1) Work to have Group B (Ref. Thoglette 7-Nov-2017) riding behaviour allowed on footpaths (NOT footpaths only!)
2) Promote pedestrian-cyclist path sharing education.
Here we will have several groups and causes sharing the same goal, for examples: commuters, the Greens, parents, local councils, health promoters, cycling promoters.
3) Work to have more shared paths –easier with local councils (than with State etc).

Focussing on just 1) and 2) above…
    Good point about driveways being uncontrolled intersections. BUT pedestrians and <12 y.o. riders and posties are already using footpaths. Are they to be stopped? When allowed we can choose to either join them on the path or stay on the road. Motorists/cyclists/pedestrians are all to be educated in this case.
    NSW change.org petition focuses on ‘children, age >12’. I really disagree with classification by age. Some 16 y.o. may ride more sensibly or more terribly than some 35 y.o.
    Would you agree that defining by riding behaviour (such as speed) make good sense?
    Group-B riders will have options: road or footpath.

While we don’t like rules we need at least a set of guidelines.
    It’s part of education on both sides.
    It will assuage fears pedestrians have of misbehaving riders (they exist!)
    It will make the case more likely to be accepted.

QUESTIONS: Characteristics or guidelines for ‘Group B riding on footpaths’ are ….??
    Speed <= ? (Please continue the debate)
    Give way to ...
    Sound bells when- - -
    (Such cases as for drivers backing out of driveways already apply in regards to pedestrians.)
    Any apparel I think will be non-compulsory, but how about say in poor visibility? Just encouraged?
    How about ‘lights’ and ‘bells’?
    What else?
    To be the same as or different from when on shared-paths?
Thanks!

Bob_Hornsby
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:04 pm
Location: North Shore Sydney

Re: Will Vic allow bikes on footpaths soon (2017)?

Postby Bob_Hornsby » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:48 pm

At the same time, it would be good to add pedestrian crossings (with lights). I am sure we all use them. Not sure about current legislation.

flywheels
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:10 pm
Location: Vic. World, non tribal

Re: Will Vic allow bikes on footpaths soon (2017)?

Postby flywheels » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:23 am

Hi find_bruce , 'fat and old’ , Adelaide_Peter, Bob_Hornsby, among others interested,

If you were to draft up an ideal ‘Summary of Path (not Road) Rules and Guidelines for Cyclists and Pedestrians’, especially for Vic. if that’d make the task simpler, what would you write? Please.
Say, pretend you were the ideal legislator.

This is a short version of my previous post :-)
Last edited by flywheels on Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
baabaa
Posts: 815
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:47 am

Re: Will Vic allow bikes on footpaths soon (2017)?

Postby baabaa » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:21 am

Hey flywheels, when you keep asking questions around a topic like this, a bit of disclosure on what you intend to use this info for is always a good idea.

AdelaidePeter
Posts: 269
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:13 am

Re: Will Vic allow bikes on footpaths soon (2017)?

Postby AdelaidePeter » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:58 pm

flywheels wrote:Hi find_bruce , 'fat and old’ , Adelaide_Peter, Bob_Hornsby, among others interested,

If you were to draft up an ideal ‘Summary of Path (not Road) Rules and Guidelines for Cyclists and Pedestrians’, especially for Vic. if that’d make the task simpler, what would you write? Please.
Say, pretend you were the ideal legislator.

This is a short version of my previous post :-)


My ideal law would be short and simple: cyclists may use footpaths or pedestrian crossings (* from the footpath) at any time, but must always give way to pedestrians. The end.

(* "from the footpath" added because cyclists on the road shouldn't be able to ride through a crossing. This is technically redundant because it's covered by the road rule that you're not allowed to drive/ride across the stop line at a crossing, but it may be worth spelling out).

To help get a law accepted, I'd accept these compromises:
* Some sort of speed limit near pedestrians (like I suggested, 1 metre OR walking pace) as a compromise to get the law up, but I think it's unnecessary.
* Some sort of speed restriction for riding across driveways, because drivers aren't accustomed to checking for 30 km/h objects on the footpath. Walking (running?) pace across a driveway would be a reasonable compromise.
* A requirement to keep left where practical, which is the law here in SA (I think this one is totally unnecessary, but it's law here in SA and doesn't seem to do any harm).

flywheels
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:10 pm
Location: Vic. World, non tribal

Re: Will Vic allow bikes on footpaths soon (2017)?

Postby flywheels » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:06 pm

disclosure on what you intend to use this info for


Hey baabaa, Thanks for seeking clarification. Short answer is 'Hope', long answer is...

Firstly, in my 1st post I explained that I'd like to ride more but am terrified of riding on roads. So I hope to be allowed to ride on footpaths.
Later on, I explained that I am just one example. Many people would benefit.
So for my benefit as well as others' I keep consulting and finding ways to make that happen.
[BTW I spent some time in Europe so I do know the culture and am just back from a holiday in North America riding on footpaths, bike paths and roads. This thread here is about here -Vic.]

So.... The information, discussions, brainstorming and solutions here can lead to it happening. How or by whom will work out the same way as most things work out... collectively, some who are able to (this BNA? local BUGs? some famous advocate? a parent? another regular rider? etc etc) will hopefully raise the solutions for implementation. Part of the consultation is in fact how best shall we proceed.

I am also a parent (who suffered) and a regular rider (who suffered) and a driver (who are pro cyclists and pro cycling) and a pedestrian (who suffered and who are pro cyclists and pro cycling) so *** IF *** no one else better able will do anything, I will. (Keep trying, I mean.)

I'm just a regular little cog in the wheel, at most. I also declared 'no personal benefit' as some people seem suspicious and I don't know why.
(An aside only. Just in case....If some low-number-of-posts people committed some crimes in the past, those were their crimes. I disagree with guilty until proven innocent. I agree with innocent until proven otherwise. The basis of our law, right?)

Hope my intentions are clear(er).
Cheers

User avatar
outnabike
Posts: 2128
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:53 pm
Location: Melbourne Vic

Re: Will Vic allow bikes on footpaths soon (2017)?

Postby outnabike » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:36 pm

[quote="diggler"]It is legal in every State and Territory for anybody to cycle on a footpath. The exception is New South Wales and Victoria where people can ride on footpaths only to the age of 11. There is no reported carnage of pedestrian and cyclist collisions across Australia. The position in New South Wales and Victoria makes no sense. We have growing childhood obesity, competition for roadspace and a road toll that we want to reduce to zero. How does it make sense to make 12 year olds to ride on busy roads?
Quote]

Only to the age of 12...an eleven year old can ride.
Also what will complicate things, and may even cause a reversal in some states, is that if pedelecs start bowling into peds, things might get revised.
Just talking here, as motorbikes and pedelecs are already allowed on paths in Victoria as well. Post office motor bikes are slowly going pedelec in my area. It seems that no one ever complains and it's written into law, probably always will. :) I would think accidents by post workers would be minimal.

But what may well happen in my mind,is that cyclists might start hitting peds on paths, just due to the motorization of the pedelec vehicles. If folks run over each other in cars, why should they not know what acceleration is on a bike? And even kids can ride a pedelec right? Some cyclists don't want to actually stop or slow down even.

So they might then not allow anything motorised to go on paths. Not to mention road worthy problems on any thing motorised.
Me, I would like adults be allowed to ride on paths at intersections if it suits them. Some times it is safer and probably less hazardous.
It is hard to make a law out of bits and pieces though. :)
Vivente World Randonneur complete with panniers

flywheels
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:10 pm
Location: Vic. World, non tribal

Re: Will Vic allow bikes on footpaths soon (2017)?

Postby flywheels » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:41 pm

AdelaidePeter wrote: My ideal law would be . . .


Thanks!
I forgot one.... What kind of footpaths should or could be off-limit for bikes -without needing to add new
No Bicycle signs on so many of them? Maybe busy shopping strips/precincts or city blocks or some better wording?

What about walking paths?

User avatar
Thoglette
Posts: 3842
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:01 pm

Re: Will Vic allow bikes on footpaths soon (2017)?

Postby Thoglette » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:46 pm

flywheels wrote:What kind of footpaths should or could be off-limit for bikes

None.
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ

AdelaidePeter
Posts: 269
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:13 am

Re: Will Vic allow bikes on footpaths soon (2017)?

Postby AdelaidePeter » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:32 pm

double post
Last edited by AdelaidePeter on Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AdelaidePeter
Posts: 269
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:13 am

Re: Will Vic allow bikes on footpaths soon (2017)?

Postby AdelaidePeter » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:35 pm

AdelaidePeter wrote:
flywheels wrote:
AdelaidePeter wrote: My ideal law would be . . .


Thanks!
I forgot one.... What kind of footpaths should or could be off-limit for bikes -without needing to add new
No Bicycle signs on so many of them? Maybe busy shopping strips/precincts or city blocks or some better wording?

What about walking paths?


I'd say cyclists could only be banned by specific "no cycling" signs. Anything else would be a legislative nightmare. Same for walking paths.

flywheels
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:10 pm
Location: Vic. World, non tribal

Re: Will Vic allow bikes on footpaths soon (2017)?

Postby flywheels » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:08 pm

Even for those who spend most riding time on the road, I hope all will help to allow safe cycling on footpaths and “progress cycling to become normal”.
Thank you, AdelaidePeter, Thoglette and outnabike. Great! I’m also keeping others’ previous inputs in mind.

Re speed. This can be a rule or just a guideline or a topic of discussion for educational purpose.
If there WERE to be a speed limit on footpaths or shared paths, would 15 km/hr be sensible and acceptable?
Perhaps with a clause on passing a pedestrian at a safe speed i.e. not far above their walking speed? How else should that be worded? (Of note, VicRoads 10 km/h passing a stopped tram.)

    Walking average 4.75 km/h to 5.43 km/h (Wikipedia)
    Jogging average < 10 hm/hr, whereas running > 10 km/hr
    (Not that we’re about motorised bikes, but) Segway trial Geelong, Bendigo 10 km/hr max.
    (Ditto) “ all States in Australia had mandated top speeds of 10 km/h for mobility scooters.”
    Cyclists average 15 km/hr on road, to max ~40 km/hr sustained on flat road.

In this not yet ideal setting, and for reluctant Vic governments, we may need both rules and education to protect pedestrians and sensible cyclists from the bad ones –at the same time promote the image of considerate cyclists.
(See also behaviours on the new London Cycle Superhighway versus Amsterdam…. Quote: news article comment “how the new cycling routes in London are used (and not used) by some aggressive louts - - -.
and Quote: news article comment “More paths are good, but if they fill up with aggressive cyclists that will be a deterrent.”)

g-boaf
Posts: 9486
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Will Vic allow bikes on footpaths soon (2017)?

Postby g-boaf » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:40 pm

flywheels wrote:Even for those who spend most riding time on the road, I hope all will help to allow safe cycling on footpaths and “progress cycling to become normal”.
Thank you, AdelaidePeter, Thoglette and outnabike. Great! I’m also keeping others’ previous inputs in mind.

Re speed. This can be a rule or just a guideline or a topic of discussion for educational purpose.
If there WERE to be a speed limit on footpaths or shared paths, would 15 km/hr be sensible and acceptable?
Perhaps with a clause on passing a pedestrian at a safe speed i.e. not far above their walking speed? How else should that be worded? (Of note, VicRoads 10 km/h passing a stopped tram.)

    Walking average 4.75 km/h to 5.43 km/h (Wikipedia)
    Jogging average < 10 hm/hr, whereas running > 10 km/hr
    (Not that we’re about motorised bikes, but) Segway trial Geelong, Bendigo 10 km/hr max.
    (Ditto) “ all States in Australia had mandated top speeds of 10 km/h for mobility scooters.”
    Cyclists average 15 km/hr on road, to max ~40 km/hr sustained on flat road.

In this not yet ideal setting, and for reluctant Vic governments, we may need both rules and education to protect pedestrians and sensible cyclists from the bad ones –at the same time promote the image of considerate cyclists.
(See also behaviours on the new London Cycle Superhighway versus Amsterdam…. Quote: news article comment “how the new cycling routes in London are used (and not used) by some aggressive louts - - -.
and Quote: news article comment “More paths are good, but if they fill up with aggressive cyclists that will be a deterrent.”)


Riding on pedestrian footpaths should require the rider to have flashing lights and wear a safety vest so they can be seen easily. They must also dismount at driveways and walk across road intersections.

That's my contribution for more and more rules and regulations to normalise riding. :roll:

Meanwhile in Europe, they actually don't have stupid speed limits for riding on footpaths and everyone just manages fine. How do I know? I've ridden there and recently.

Your efforts at normalising riding would be laughed at over in Europe. What you really want to achieve is to sabotage riding so that it doesn't become mainstream. That's how it seems.

flywheels
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:10 pm
Location: Vic. World, non tribal

Re: Will Vic allow bikes on footpaths soon (2017)?

Postby flywheels » Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:29 pm

g-boaf, Sarcasm is not constructive inputs at all.
You're not the only one who knows about Europe. Europe Europe Europe. That's over there. We're over here.
They might laugh over there till they come over here -we may have to ship their bodies back.
"What you really want to achieve is to sabotage...." Now that's personal and really an accusation.

I'll copy for you:
In this not yet ideal setting, and for reluctant Vic governments, we may need ....

a rule or just a guideline or a topic of discussion for educational purpose.


Any helpful inputs from others, to proactively make footpath cycling allowed, soon, please?

g-boaf
Posts: 9486
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Will Vic allow bikes on footpaths soon (2017)?

Postby g-boaf » Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:40 pm

But you are trying to normalise cycling by having more and more rules and regulations! That's not going to work. I suspect you are really trying to sabotage riding.

When you are riding through a town square with people walking about everywhere, you don't need some stupid 10-15km/h speed limit rule, you go slowly because there are people walking everywhere and you have to go slowly, that's just common sense. Same on paths, because they are narrow, they are often uneven, there could be a car coming out of a driveway that you cannot see.

Again, adding more and more rules is not going to make things better. You are not going to normalise riding by doing that. You are going to destroy it. You'll deter people from taking up riding. Which is really what I think you want to do.

You obviously got my point clearly, hence the note about my sarcasm. I've given you everything you need to go from. Throw away your guidelines and rules. They are not needed. They will not get more people riding.

You don't even need riding on footpaths if you get drivers to behave themselves on the roads. You should be able to ride on roads without fear. That's the key. That's what you really need to put your efforts on instead of more and more rules.

You shouldn't feel "terrified of riding on roads". Riding on footpaths won't fix that problem, it'll just legitimise it. It will make it okay for bad drivers to run bike riders off roads or road-rage against them.

flywheels
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:10 pm
Location: Vic. World, non tribal

Re: Will Vic allow bikes on footpaths soon (2017)?

Postby flywheels » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:15 pm

Thank you, g-boaf,
Firstly, please understand the context. I wrote in the same first sentence: allow safe cycling on footpaths and “progress cycling to become normal” I did not say that speed limit would normalise. Speed was an exploratory discussion how to get footpath cycling accepted in Vic.

What I meant in that one same sentence was that as we have more people cycling (wherever) safely and accepting each other e.g. pedestrians + cyclists we will progress along the line to normalising.

No, I do not want rules if not needed. IF people behave we won't even need laws -right?
I agree with AdelaidePeter, please read... the comments went on about some sort of speed etc... as a compromise if necessary...
(BTW oBikes. People are sensible? Anyway -digressing a bit.)

"I suspect you are really trying to sabotage riding." I wanted to let that pass , but feedback is better....
Please do not suspect anything so vile, it's really baseless and not very nice to fellow cyclists and forum members.

"get drivers to behave", can you? Within say 10 years? Yes, Please.
"don't even need riding on footpaths", for many they do want to ride on footpaths, for their own reasons and they should be able to, like at many many many places in other States and the rest of the world.
"put my efforts..." I think we need several directions. I sure will throw my all into the education bit, but footpath first, real soon.

Thanks!

User avatar
Thoglette
Posts: 3842
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:01 pm

Re: Will Vic allow bikes on footpaths soon (2017)?

Postby Thoglette » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:50 pm

flywheels wrote:Speed was an exploratory discussion how to get footpath cycling accepted in Vic.


No, it's simple: drop the ban, without excuses.

Victoria needs to pull itself out of the '80s and stop persecuting cyclists.
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ

g-boaf
Posts: 9486
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Will Vic allow bikes on footpaths soon (2017)?

Postby g-boaf » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:24 am

Thoglette wrote:
flywheels wrote:Speed was an exploratory discussion how to get footpath cycling accepted in Vic.


No, it's simple: drop the ban, without excuses.

Victoria needs to pull itself out of the '80s and stop persecuting cyclists.


Amen to that. Places elsewhere can allow riding on footpaths or town squares with needing speed limits, so they aren't necessary here either. Everyone gets along just fine.

The whole country needs to change, not just Victoria.

I'm still very suspicious of the motives behind all of this though...

BenGr
Posts: 647
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:26 pm

Re: Will Vic allow bikes on footpaths soon (2017)?

Postby BenGr » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:01 am

I'm currently living in a town in Canada, where cycling is uncommon. Of the cyclists I see around town, the vast majority ride on the footpath. Noone cares, despite it being illegal.

I also recieve far more aggression than I ever did riding in Melbourne (possibly even without adjusting for the significantly fewer vehicle interactions I now have). I've been shaved multiple times within minutes on near empty 4 lane roads, or copped verbal abuse from motorists who felt they shouldn't be required to change lanes on these same roads.

I credit this to the low numbers of cyclists, and the habbit of cyclists to just bend over.

Thankfully it's not all bad. On the open road it is rare for someone to pass without crossing fully into another lane, although with how little traffic there is this is nothing difficult.

Maybe I should add I think riding on footpaths should be allowed, but it should never become the standard.

RobertL
Posts: 587
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:08 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Will Vic allow bikes on footpaths soon (2017)?

Postby RobertL » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:37 am

We allow footpath riding in Qld. I don't see that we're that different to Vic. There are basically two rules for bikes on footpaths here:
1. Give way to all pedestrians.
2. If you encounter a bike going the other way (i.e. coming towards you), pass to its left.

That's it. And it seems to work.
Image

User avatar
antigee
Posts: 473
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:58 am
Location: just off the Yarra Trail but not lurking in the bushes

Re: Will Vic allow bikes on footpaths soon (2017)?

Postby antigee » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:14 pm

Much talk here about speed limits for cyclists but I’ll mention the issue of speed limits for motor vehicles and the impact that the relatively high urban road speed limits in Victoria have on intimidating cyclists, potential cyclists and pedestrians.

....and no mention of vehicle speed limits in the NSW article linked to above...
“A spokesman for Transport for NSW said there was currently no plans to amend the rules prohibiting 12-year-olds from riding on the footpath and that they were instead looking at different solutions including shared paths and bike lanes.”

Been thinking about this as my experience of riding to school with my daughter when she was at primary didn’t really make me a fan of riding on the footpath....
Take away the close passes and must get in fronts and add in blind reversing from drives, urgent turns into service stations, office car parks and drive thru’s. Pedestrians exiting shops, people waiting for trams. Get some driver confusion on needing to give way when turning into side roads...”it’s cyclist – no I won’t....there’s a child...yes I will”

also I like walking to the shops and walking the dog and find that I do have to give way to cyclists on the footpath as they are often too narrow or cluttered to allow parties to pass easily
Thinking back we ended up riding some of the way on quiet 40km/hr limited residential streets and only using the path on “busy main roads” that is roads with 60km/hr speed limits (read as target). My feeling is that any speed limit above the “norm” indicates to drivers that they have priority. (full stop)

At the weekend I found myself riding 50m or so along the footpath to reach a crossing at a highway intersection having come out of a quiet residential road the wrong side of the road to safely access the on road cycle lane and yesterday walking the dog through St Kilda at rush hour I saw a lot of cyclists using the path to link on road and off road cycle routes.

Here’s an example from St Kilda of a typical road layout on a 60km/hr limited highway and this is the type of road layout that you see more cautious cyclists take to the path to avoid :

Image
And possibly sensibly so?....impacts at 60km/hr have a very poor outcome for pedestrians and cyclists:

Image (source 20isplenty "20mph is plenty" is a sort of successful UK based campaign)

Drop the speed limit to 40km/hr and you still have the problem that drivers will fail to look for cyclists and choose to ignore their rights but at least the outcomes of collisions may be less devastating

As to other States.... suspect it works because of the relatively low use of bicycles for utility transport ... once you start upping the mix then taking away space from those that have the least makes no sense to me.
Try using Southbank as example of how well higher volumes of cyclists and ped’s mix and see if there are any takers?

To conclude... my vote would be allow cycling on the footpath but only when the posted (or unposted) speed limit is higher than 40km/hr

Should go hand in hand in hand with an extension of 40km/hr zones and education for drivers on how to safely enter and exit premises when they have to cross the footpath.

And I’ve no idea on how to deal with cyclists using the footpath and priority crossing side roads .....guess the simple solution is the default: Cyclists give way to turning cars? After all cyclists should give way to everything and as many drivers seem to think the give priority to pedestrians crossing a side road rule only applies at signalised junctions might as well do away with it at the same time as it would be safer for pedestrians (no please don’t).

None of this addresses the issues that should be addressed of course – road space use, driving culture and driving attitude but if it works and encourage a few more people to cycle then that can only be a good thing, how to campaign for it?

edit erroneous urls to pic links removed

User avatar
Thoglette
Posts: 3842
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:01 pm

Re: Will Vic allow bikes on footpaths soon (2017)?

Postby Thoglette » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:51 pm

antigee wrote:As to other States.... suspect it works because of the relatively low use of bicycles for utility transport ... once you start upping the mix then taking away space from those that have the least makes no sense to me.


Find me a brick wall! It works EVERYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD.

Victoria and NSW are not "special" in any way, shape or form. No matter how hard certain bureaucrats and surgeons might like to think so.

More to the point, much of the rest of the non-anglophone, developed world has long since stopped giving away space (and excuses) to motor vehicle traffic. E.g., the speeds tolerated in residential and town centre areas are much lower (e.g. 30kph) than the anglosphere.
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ

User avatar
Aushiker
Posts: 22208
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:55 pm
Location: Fremantle, WA
Contact:

Re: Will Vic allow bikes on footpaths soon (2017)?

Postby Aushiker » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:28 pm

On the subject of bicycle path speeds, this paper by Boufousa, Hatfield & Grzebietab (2018) might of interest.

Speed was measured for 5421 riders who were observed cycling on shared paths across 12 metropolitan and regional locations in Sydney, Australia. Multivariate regression analysis was carried out to examine rider and environmental factors that contribute to riders cycling above the median speed.

The study found that observed riders travelled at a median speed of 16 km/h (mean 18.4 km/h). Nearly 80% of riders travelled at 20 km/h or less and 7.8% at speeds of more than 30 km/h. Riders were significantly less likely to cycle above the median speed on shared paths that had an average volume of over 20 pedestrians/hour. Riders were significantly more likely to travel above the median speed on paths that had a centreline (OR: 1.71, 95% CI: 1.41–2.07), on wider paths (over 3.5 m) (OR: 1.34, 95% CI: 1.12–1.59) and on paths with visual segregation between cyclists and pedestrians. Visual segregation, where cycling and walking areas are differentiated by the type of material or by paint colour used, was the strongest predictor of travelling above median speed on shared paths (OR: 3.9, 95% CI: 3.1–4.8).

User avatar
Thoglette
Posts: 3842
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:01 pm

Re: Will Vic allow bikes on footpaths soon (2017)?

Postby Thoglette » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:55 pm

Thanks. I note the observation
Boufousa, Hatfield & Grzebietab (2018) wrote:In fact, there is little evidence, either in Australia or internationally, to support imposing any speed limit on shared paths.
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ

AdelaidePeter
Posts: 269
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:13 am

Re: Will Vic allow bikes on footpaths soon (2017)?

Postby AdelaidePeter » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:00 pm

antigee wrote:Been thinking about this as my experience of riding to school with my daughter when she was at primary didn’t really make me a fan of riding on the footpath....
Take away the close passes and must get in fronts and add in blind reversing from drives, urgent turns into service stations, office car parks and drive thru’s. Pedestrians exiting shops, people waiting for trams. Get some driver confusion on needing to give way when turning into side roads...”it’s cyclist – no I won’t....there’s a child...yes I will”


Cyclists should always give way to pedestrians, so near stores you just have to go slow.

Driveways I agree are an issue. Since drivers aren't expecting someone fast on the footpath, I'd advise going walking pace unless visibility is very good. In practice, you don't get cyclists going at speed on footpaths in the suburbs for this very reason. If this does become an issue (and I don't believe it has been one in states/territories which allow footpath cycling) I wouldn't object to some sort of speed limit near driveways as a compromise to ensure footpath cycling remains/becomes legal.

antigee wrote:also I like walking to the shops and walking the dog and find that I do have to give way to cyclists on the footpath as they are often too narrow or cluttered to allow parties to pass easily


You shouldn't have to give way. You should of course make sure your leash doesn't make the footpath unpassable, but you have to do that for pedestrians anyway.

antigee wrote:As to other States.... suspect it works because of the relatively low use of bicycles for utility transport ... once you start upping the mix then taking away space from those that have the least makes no sense to me.


If cyclists always give way to pedestrians, then they're never taking pedestrian space away. (As you can probably tell, I'm a bit of a fan of the "cyclist always gives way to pedestrians" rule - it works well and covers most objections to footpath cycling).

I think you'll find that when bicycle volumes get large, it sorts itself out. The more confident ones see that the footpath is busy and so take the road. Those who aren't worried about going slow through pedestrians and other cyclists on the footpath, go slow on the footpath. That's what I see on the busier streets here in the Adelaide.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users