driver stabs cyclist

jindydiver
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Re: driver stabs cyclist

Postby jindydiver » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:48 am

Bah77 wrote:
ball bearing wrote: How was the cyclist to know that the person who threatened him and attacked him with a knife was 76
Maybe assess the situation before you ram someone with your bike? If he had stopped a couple of meters short he would have seen the guys age, and possibly the knife


You see a ramming, I see a guy coasting up to stop at the door and old mate in the car attempting to door him and piling out with a knife. I have always thought that giving drivers a piece of your mind is a waste of time, might make you feel better but doesn't change the behaviour of the driver one bit, and this instance shows us how it can turn very nasty very quickly. Australia is changing, we see more use of very harmful recreational drugs and if someone is driving like an A-hole you should consider that their judgement might be impaired. If drivers are more apt to escalate to real violence, as seems to be happening, then maybe it is wise to not go chasing opportunities to get into a knuckle on with drivers.

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ColinOldnCranky
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Re: driver stabs cyclist

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:40 am

10speedsemiracer wrote:
ColinOldnCranky wrote:
Derny Driver wrote:I would have sat the fat punt on his backside, knife or no knife.

In a sense you have just justified the action of the 76 year old.

Put yourself in the position of being 76. A 52 year old male on a bike is highly likely to be able to do you serious harm. And you have no idea of the guys state of mind, but he HAS just bailed you up for whatever reason.

That 76 year old is most likely very vulnerable to an attack by a 52 year old - Hell, I was only two years out of basketball at that age. But as your statement attests, there are plenty of tools out there who are just as likely to throttle a 76 year old. Your approach certainly doesn't sound like the alternative, to indulge in reasonable and controlled discussion.

I suggest that should you ever take on a 76 year old for whatever reason, then you are part of the problem.


Er, he pulled a knife....

So if I'm out riding, nearly get side-swiped into the flora whilst being accompanied by my wife/daughter/any other, then attempt to raise the driver's awareness of his behaviour which results in being threatened with a knife, the knife-wielder is the victim (?). My argument is that a 76yo should know better, and that the rider would have no way of knowing how old, feeble or decrepit the driver was at the time. His experience was a near-miss, and then a verbal altercation involving some knife-brandishing.

And that is why I commended OP on his restraint.
Pls read my post again 10Speed. You are fine. It's Derny Driver's testosterone that I am critical of. He states that he would assault the 76 old and NOT because of any knife.

Sorry to have confused.
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ColinOldnCranky
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Re: driver stabs cyclist

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:49 am

Just to be clear to all, my earlier post in reponse to Derny Driver is NOT about someone pulling a knife, It is about anyone who thinks that they should assault someone who passes close to them.

And especially if going at someone massively inferior physically. Do not be surprised it they over-react. We all have genuine reason to fear someone seriously injuring us, and to some vulnerable people it may make sense at the time to get in a first cheap shot. There are just too many nutters out there.

For an example of a cyclist going over the top and giving the other party cause to get that shot in first look no further than the recent spat between DurianRider and some motorist. He can seem pretty scary and likely to subject someone to a serious assault. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4219992/Vegan-cyclist-unleashes-foul-mouthed-tirade-driver.html

Or Taypet21, another serial pest and over the top aggressor.
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ball bearing
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Re: driver stabs cyclist

Postby ball bearing » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:37 pm

Here is the video taken by the cyclist's rear camera. It gives a better view of just how close the pass was.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/video/watch/3 ... -motorist/

I wonder how many other cyclists the angry little man has intimidated over the years.

Years ago I was waiting at some lights with my two year old daughter in her baby seat. We were right next to the curb when a nice fellow in a SECWA company car squeezed by and actually struck the baby seat. The light changed just as he struck us, he took off at a good clip and I chased him for a few blocks before catching him at another intersection. I let him know exactly how I felt about him endangering me and my little girl. The coward refused to exit the vehicle.

I did report it and, surprise surprise, nothing happened. SECWA claimed that they could not identify who was driving at the time and the police said there was no evidence.

I suppose I should have just let it slide, right?

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Re: driver stabs cyclist

Postby NASHIE » Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:12 pm

ball bearing wrote:Here is the video taken by the cyclist's rear camera. It gives a better view of just how close the pass was.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/video/watch/3 ... -motorist/

I wonder how many other cyclists the angry little man has intimidated over the years.

Years ago I was waiting at some lights with my two year old daughter in her baby seat. We were right next to the curb when a nice fellow in a SECWA company car squeezed by and actually struck the baby seat. The light changed just as he struck us, he took off at a good clip and I chased him for a few blocks before catching him at another intersection. I let him know exactly how I felt about him endangering me and my little girl. The coward refused to exit the vehicle.

I did report it and, surprise surprise, nothing happened. SECWA claimed that they could not identify who was driving at the time and the police said there was no evidence.

I suppose I should have just let it slide, right?


No you shouldn't let it slide and you did all you could to let him and others know. But had he exited the car, what then ?

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Re: driver stabs cyclist

Postby ball bearing » Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:20 pm

NASHIE wrote:
No you shouldn't let it slide and you did all you could to let him and others know. But had he exited the car, what then ?


Then we could have discussed things on equal terms rather than him believing that being in a metal cage and me being on a bike gives him certain entitlements and a sense of superiority.

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Re: driver stabs cyclist

Postby NASHIE » Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:40 pm

ball bearing wrote:
NASHIE wrote:
No you shouldn't let it slide and you did all you could to let him and others know. But had he exited the car, what then ?


Then we could have discussed things on equal terms rather than him believing that being in a metal cage and me being on a bike gives him certain entitlements and a sense of superiority.


Understood, but with that you then take the risk of the equal term encounter going to the next level, which with the some of nut cases out there, is just not worth the risk.
Close passes don't bother me as much as others, but did have a recent pass that made me and son gasp. We were single file at the time and I chatted to the driver at the next set of lights. I didn't rant and rave and long story short, he was a rider himself and just misjudged and appologised. So everyones not out there to intentionally let us know they are superior.

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Re: driver stabs cyclist

Postby tallywhacker » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:11 am

10speedsemiracer wrote:....
And that is why I commended OP on his restraint.

fortunately this was not me although I have been threatened with a screwdriver in the past. My suggestion on incidents like these would be to just stay on your bike, ride on and report. These days you really don't want to escalate an incident with someone who you don't know how mentally stable they are or what they have taken.
I have also found that mouthing off and giving assessments on the drivers virility, mental state or family lineage can also cause problems. There is only one winner in a car vs bike as I have found out more times than I care for.

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Re: driver stabs cyclist

Postby RobertFrith » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:55 am

ball bearing wrote:I did report it and, surprise surprise, nothing happened. SECWA claimed that they could not identify who was driving at the time and the police said there was no evidence.

SECWA? Was the incident that long ago :-) For all the OH&S stuff they go through Western Power are completely knobbled by a foul work culture. Other companies are different. I had a Boral ute attempt to turn right over me when crossing an intersection a few days ago. With nothing but the time of day, description of the vehicle and vague description of the driver I made contact through an online form and within 24 hours they had identified him, counselled him and got an apology. I've had similar from BHP for a close pass from a semi trailer.

Back to the topic at hand; to the best of my knowledge it's an offence to carry a weapon in the cabin of your car. The knife should have been in the boot, not at hand. Same goes for long torches, baseball bats. Probably screwdrivers.

jindydiver
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Re: driver stabs cyclist

Postby jindydiver » Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:49 pm

RobertFrith wrote:
ball bearing wrote:
Back to the topic at hand; to the best of my knowledge it's an offence to carry a weapon in the cabin of your car. The knife should have been in the boot, not at hand. Same goes for long torches, baseball bats. Probably screwdrivers.


Don't believe you for one second. I can drive around with my rifle in the "cabin of my car" and do so fully within the law.

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Re: driver stabs cyclist

Postby XIX » Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:33 pm

jindydiver wrote:
RobertFrith wrote:
ball bearing wrote:
Back to the topic at hand; to the best of my knowledge it's an offence to carry a weapon in the cabin of your car. The knife should have been in the boot, not at hand. Same goes for long torches, baseball bats. Probably screwdrivers.


Don't believe you for one second. I can drive around with my rifle in the "cabin of my car" and do so fully within the law.


Sure, but you are not allowed to pick it up, and it is only to transport it from your holding location to a place that it is licensed to be used and directly back within reason. It can also not be loaded and the ammunition must be in an entirely separate part of your vehicle and secured.

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RobertFrith
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Re: driver stabs cyclist

Postby RobertFrith » Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:06 pm

Firearms are exempt under Section 8 of the Weapons Act 1999.

If you have something about yourself or are conveying some thing that plod believes you intend to use to scare or harm someone you're on the wrong side of the law. I know a security guard who was questioned about his torch on the passenger seat at a random breath test.

8.(1)
Other articles carried or possessed as weapons
Except as provided in subsections (3) and (5) and section 10, a person who carries or possesses an article, not being a firearm, a prohibited weapon or a controlled weapon, with the intention of using it, whether or not for defence —
(a) to injure or disable any person; or
(b) to cause any person to fear that someone will be injured or disabled by that use,
commits an offence.
Penalty: imprisonment for 2 years and a fine of $24 000.

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Re: driver stabs cyclist

Postby jindydiver » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:19 pm

RobertFrith wrote:Firearms are exempt under Section 8 of the Weapons Act 1999.

If you have something about yourself or are conveying some thing that plod believes you intend to use to scare or harm someone you're on the wrong side of the law. I know a security guard who was questioned about his torch on the passenger seat at a random breath test.

8.(1)
Other articles carried or possessed as weapons
Except as provided in subsections (3) and (5) and section 10, a person who carries or possesses an article, not being a firearm, a prohibited weapon or a controlled weapon, with the intention of using it, whether or not for defence —
(a) to injure or disable any person; or
(b) to cause any person to fear that someone will be injured or disabled by that use,
commits an offence.
Penalty: imprisonment for 2 years and a fine of $24 000.


You were very clear.....
to the best of my knowledge it's an offence to carry a weapon in the cabin of your car..... Same goes for long torches, baseball bats. Probably screwdrivers.

I was pointing out that you were over egging the pudding, and your reply confirms this, cheers.

jindydiver
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Re: driver stabs cyclist

Postby jindydiver » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:23 pm

XIX wrote:
jindydiver wrote:
RobertFrith wrote:


Don't believe you for one second. I can drive around with my rifle in the "cabin of my car" and do so fully within the law.


Sure, but you are not allowed to pick it up, and it is only to transport it from your holding location to a place that it is licensed to be used and directly back within reason. It can also not be loaded and the ammunition must be in an entirely separate part of your vehicle and secured.


The claim was...."it's an offence to carry a weapon in the cabin of your car", and this is just plain wrong.

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Re: driver stabs cyclist

Postby trailgumby » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:25 pm

Bah77 wrote:
ball bearing wrote:
Bah77 wrote:Maybe assess the situation before you ram someone with your bike?

Was he charged with assault for the alleged deliberate action?
So if he wasnt charged then he did nothing wrong? Interesting take, i wonder how that logic would go on certain other threads in this forum.

You dont think if the cyclist had stopped a couple of meters away he could have seen the knife and the gentlemans age?


I suspect the cyclist was intending to pull up beside the driver's window and was surprised by the driver being out of the car and charging towards him. That's my reading of what happened.

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Re: driver stabs cyclist

Postby Aushiker » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:30 pm

jindydiver wrote:I was pointing out that you were over egging the pudding, and your reply confirms this, cheers.


What rubbish ... Rob said to the "best of his knowledge." All that is required is a clarification, it is hardly "over egging the pudding" as you put it. Comprehension skill failure or what?

jindydiver
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Re: driver stabs cyclist

Postby jindydiver » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:37 pm

Aushiker wrote:
jindydiver wrote:I was pointing out that you were over egging the pudding, and your reply confirms this, cheers.


What rubbish ... Rob said to the "best of his knowledge." All that is required is a clarification, it is hardly "over egging the pudding" as you put it. Comprehension skill failure or what?



You miss the point entirely. The "best of his knowledge" is incorrect and I said I don't believe it (his knowledge that is, shared with us all), and his subsequent post shows clearly he agrees he overstated the case. :D

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Re: driver stabs cyclist

Postby Aushiker » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:46 pm

jindydiver wrote:
Aushiker wrote:
jindydiver wrote:I was pointing out that you were over egging the pudding, and your reply confirms this, cheers.


What rubbish ... Rob said to the "best of his knowledge." All that is required is a clarification, it is hardly "over egging the pudding" as you put it. Comprehension skill failure or what?



You miss the point entirely.


Nope. I suggest you read carefully what I actually said; not what you think I said.

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RobertFrith
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Re: driver stabs cyclist

Postby RobertFrith » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:58 pm

Yeah, you're getting a bit keen jindydiver :-/
Have a careful read of the extract of the statute that I made; an offence is committed if a person "carries or possesses" "an article" which they intend to use or threaten to use as a weapon.
The law in WA specifically excludes firearms as they're covered by another act. The law could well be different in your state.

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Re: driver stabs cyclist

Postby jindydiver » Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:19 pm

RobertFrith wrote:Yeah, you're getting a bit keen jindydiver :-/
Have a careful read of the extract of the statute that I made; an offence is committed if a person "carries or possesses" "an article" which they intend to use or threaten to use as a weapon.
The law in WA specifically excludes firearms as they're covered by another act. The law could well be different in your state.


You are arguing specifics now when earlier you were claiming you believed "it's an offence to carry a weapon in the cabin of your car". Clearly now you see my point that there are indeed circumstances where carrying any of those things you listed are perfectly fine carried in the cab of your car?

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Re: driver stabs cyclist

Postby outnabike » Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:33 pm

Back in the day we used to call this a pissing contest..... :lol:
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Re: driver stabs cyclist

Postby redned » Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:11 pm

I have forgotten what this thread was about!

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Re: driver stabs cyclist

Postby Cheesewheel » Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:34 pm

As an update, I read that the driver was fined for the close pass and some other charge regarding the stabbing (apparently the knife in question was a box cutter).

Seems like the close pass laws default to the category of laws that are never enforced unless you p off the cops or are otherwise a doofus in public.
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RobertFrith
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Re: driver stabs cyclist

Postby RobertFrith » Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:32 pm

outnabike wrote:Back in the day we used to call this a pissing contest..... :lol:

I concede! :-)

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