UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

robbo mcs
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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby robbo mcs » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:14 pm

I have been up and down Winnats pass in Derbyshire, which was the site of this accident. For reference it is very steep descent. The road is quite narrow too. Certainly tests out your brakes. Not the kind of place where casual riders who haven't ridden for a year go.

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby RobertL » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:27 pm

I also recall a deadly crash where a female cyclist couldn't brake properly with rim brakes. In that case, hydraulic disc brakes would have saved her life.


Was that they case where she couldn't apply sufficient force because her hands were too small for the brake lever reach? And didn't that lead to some sort of action against the bike shop that sold her the bike for not setting it up for her correctly?
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biker jk
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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby biker jk » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:05 pm

RobertL wrote:
I also recall a deadly crash where a female cyclist couldn't brake properly with rim brakes. In that case, hydraulic disc brakes would have saved her life.


Was that they case where she couldn't apply sufficient force because her hands were too small for the brake lever reach? And didn't that lead to some sort of action against the bike shop that sold her the bike for not setting it up for her correctly?


Yes, that's the one.

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kb
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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby kb » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:23 pm

warthog1 wrote:She screamed "my brakes have gone" before hitting the dry stone wall.
Using my razor sharp detective skills. I'm tipping there may have been a problem with her brakes. ;)

That happened to my wife several years ago when she borrowed my bike. Childhood habits had her backpedalling. Whoops!
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Alex Simmons/RST
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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:15 am

Meanwhile, in Dubai, Elia Viviani's wheel change:

https://www.facebook.com/matteo.rausse/ ... 922399837/

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MichaelB
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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby MichaelB » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:47 am

Looks like the mech needs a bit more practice :lol:

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Newcastle Dave » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:18 am

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Meanwhile, in Dubai, Elia Viviani's wheel change:

https://www.facebook.com/matteo.rausse/ ... 922399837/


Say What !!

Must have been a mechanical issue - I can change a wheel on my disc brake cross bike a lot quicker than that (I could almost change a wheel on my car faster than that), and I am an absolute mechanical klutz

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Jmuzz » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:12 pm

I can't see any reason why disks won't match weight next Dura Ace generation, and then become lighter than rim has ever achieved thereafter.

They are really a bit oversized and agricultural at the moment, still decades behind race motorcycles.
Everything done to motorcycle sportsbikes brakes carries over to bicycles, there is better performance in smaller weight easily available.

Once that's settled the real fun of "Di2 ABS" argument will start, all a repeat of motorcycle history.

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biker jk
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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby biker jk » Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:27 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Meanwhile, in Dubai, Elia Viviani's wheel change:

https://www.facebook.com/matteo.rausse/ ... 922399837/


Never happened with a rim brake wheel...


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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby AUbicycles » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:52 pm

I saw the Dubai wheel change and initially wondered if it was neutral service and an incompatibility.

The mechanic was just not very swift - had trouble releasing the through-axle, seating the new wheel in the dropouts and then getting the through axle back to tension. It was the same speed as I would do a wheel-change.

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:40 pm

AUbicycles wrote:I saw the Dubai wheel change and initially wondered if it was neutral service and an incompatibility.

The mechanic was just not very swift - had trouble releasing the through-axle, seating the new wheel in the dropouts and then getting the through axle back to tension. It was the same speed as I would do a wheel-change.

Incompatibility is a problem now facing bikes racers.

In the recent Herald Sun Tour the Aqua Blue team were riding 1x set ups, which meant the gearing on all the neutral service wheels was pretty useless for them and they would be forced to wait for a team car. A A majority of races only permit one team car in the convoy, and you can't instantly cover riders you might have in the break and the peloton.

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby AUbicycles » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:13 pm

I need to start a new thread on 1x - look out for this Alex and I am interested in your views.

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:39 am

AUbicycles wrote:I need to start a new thread on 1x - look out for this Alex and I am interested in your views.

Not much to it.

Pretty much same top and bottom gears as a 2x but with much greater gaps between gear choices. The latter would do my head in.

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby WyvernRH » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:58 am

AUbicycles wrote:The mechanic was just not very swift - had trouble releasing the through-axle


Still not sold on the need for through axles with disk brakes, especially on road bikes. Even if it is a real problem a better solution would be to reverse the position of the caliper mount rather than introduce a completely new, incompatible wheel mounting system.
Helps sales tho I suppose.

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby LG » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:05 am

LG = Low Gear

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Jmuzz » Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:37 pm

MotoGP have been running covered disks, and it has zero to do with slice wounds.
If injury is a concern then cover them, weighs little and improves performance.
https://www.facebook.com/MotoGP/videos/ ... 797050769/

Done right it will improve aero, cooling, contamination, maintenance, durability, safety and fixes the current cosmetic problem of how to neatly route the line.

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby singlespeedscott » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:08 pm

LG wrote:Quite a nasty looking injury here http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/compton ... -in-lille/

Ow. Strange how its gashed in two spots though
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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby MichaelB » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:48 am

singlespeedscott wrote:
LG wrote:Quite a nasty looking injury here http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/compton ... -in-lille/

Ow. Strange how its gashed in two spots though


Don't CX have the discs with the rounded edges as well, or is that only mandated for road cycling races ?

Lack of real evidence of the actual details, but none the less, nasty injury !!

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby trailgumby » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:21 am

singlespeedscott wrote:
LG wrote:Quite a nasty looking injury here http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/compton ... -in-lille/

Ow. Strange how its gashed in two spots though

I suffered a similar gash to my shin once. Quite deep like that. Needed multiple stitches. What did I hit? Not the disc. I hit a very blunt log. - very hard - and split my shin open smacking it between blunt object and the bone.

Exactly the same mechanism involved as when that rider went down on the cobblestones shortly after or in the same race as the Ventoso incident and ended up with a gash over his patela identical to this woman's photo. It was blamed on a disc rotor. Video footage shows he went nowhere near a disc rotor and simply split open his skin on impact with the cobblestone. I'm sure everyone's heard the expression "split his head open" - same mechanism.

Where it skin over bone like this I expect a similar mechanism caused the "cut" - rather than a cut, it was a split. It doesn't rule out the disc entirely, but makes it much less probable.

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby andrewjcw » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:08 am

As Gumby says, injuries like this are quite common on areas where skin is just covering the bone. Just hitting something hard will cause it, doesn't have to be sharp at all.

Either way it's unfortunate and looks impressive, but is in context a pretty freak mild accident. Worse accidents like fractured clavicle/wrist are many times more common, and serious accidents like spinal/pelvic fracture are probably more common and many times more severe.

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby LG » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:27 am

I have also managed to cut myself on a variety of objects including rocks, tree branches, logs and on one memorable occasion the edge of some yellow tongue flooring which involved a trip to hospital and stitches, I even have the scars to show most of these. As mentioned, wounds are often the result of a heavy force meeting an immovable object, I can see the argument for this, the object doesn't need to be sharp and doesn't need to be spinning.

What I struggle to understand is the immediate argument that a wound like this couldn't be caused by a disc rotor, it must have been something else unless all other theories are disproved. Have disc rotors not caused injuries in the past? I don't know, I wasn't there for this incident, but Katie rides a disc braked bike and is not advocating against the use of discs, the only mention is tangling with 2 other riders. Maybe it was on a hard surface or the edge of a barrier, I don't know, but cyclocross tracks often aren't the most solid surfaces. I'm not advocating for or against discs, as mentioned in numerous previous posts they are just one of innumerable possible way to be injured during a bike race.
LG = Low Gear

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby andrewjcw » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:25 pm

Who's arguing it couldn't have been caused by a rotor?

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Comedian » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:24 pm

LG wrote:What I struggle to understand is the immediate argument that a wound like this couldn't be caused by a disc rotor, it must have been something else unless all other theories are disproved. Have disc rotors not caused injuries in the past? I don't know, I wasn't there for this incident, but Katie rides a disc braked bike and is not advocating against the use of discs, the only mention is tangling with 2 other riders. Maybe it was on a hard surface or the edge of a barrier, I don't know, but cyclocross tracks often aren't the most solid surfaces. I'm not advocating for or against discs, as mentioned in numerous previous posts they are just one of innumerable possible way to be injured during a bike race.


What gets me about this thread and others.. is how the pro disc-ers :mrgreen: will argue that adding discs to a road biking peloton does not create additional risk. I get that they might argue the quantum of that risk - but that it doesn't add some additional risk is beyond me. :roll: Typically they argue that because of the existing risks that the addition of however many riders x 2 disc rotors adds no risk whatsoever. :roll:

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:07 pm

Comedian wrote:
LG wrote:What I struggle to understand is the immediate argument that a wound like this couldn't be caused by a disc rotor, it must have been something else unless all other theories are disproved. Have disc rotors not caused injuries in the past? I don't know, I wasn't there for this incident, but Katie rides a disc braked bike and is not advocating against the use of discs, the only mention is tangling with 2 other riders. Maybe it was on a hard surface or the edge of a barrier, I don't know, but cyclocross tracks often aren't the most solid surfaces. I'm not advocating for or against discs, as mentioned in numerous previous posts they are just one of innumerable possible way to be injured during a bike race.


What gets me about this thread and others.. is how the pro disc-ers :mrgreen: will argue that adding discs to a road biking peloton does not create additional risk. I get that they might argue the quantum of that risk - but that it doesn't add some additional risk is beyond me. :roll: Typically they argue that because of the existing risks that the addition of however many riders x 2 disc rotors adds no risk whatsoever. :roll:

It's really only answerable with sufficient race accident data, which we will never see.

The use of disk brakes in road races can both add and reduce injury risk because there are various risk factors, some of which may be positively influenced by use of disk brakes, some negatively, others neutrally and a few factors will depend on the race scenario. What the overall difference is we'll likely never know due to the lack of data.

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Re: UCI expected to approve Road Disc Brakes for 2016

Postby Jmuzz » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:29 pm

Disks can also reduce injury due to better braking. Shorter stops, less front wheel lockup stack, less chance or a rim explosion, less chance of weak brakes.
All things considered it is not an answer anyone can give, not going to be much in it.

If there is any proof of slice injury then simply require covers and they will be adapted quickly.
The ban was a mistake which only prevented cover support from being developed. If the option was there then this generation of calipers would be designed to support a cover screwed onto their mounts and the option would be there whether to keep it or remove it, rather than just a ban and back to where it started again.

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