New (Old) rebuild - looking for some build advice

zedries
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Re: New (Old) rebuild - looking for some build advice

Postby zedries » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:24 pm

uart wrote:Japanese bikes from that era were generally very nicely made. :D

BTW. Do you have an approximate weight for the bare frame and forks?


Yes I think its quite nicely put together when I inspected the welds etc. and with all the nice componentry I'm pretty happy with the find.

Unfortunately I haven't had the chance to get a weight as I only have those horrible white bathroom scales which say nothing except that I should probably be riding far more than I am at present! ha ha.

I'd say under 10Kg if I was to guess.

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Re: New (Old) rebuild - looking for some build advice

Postby uart » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:01 pm

zedries wrote:I'd say under 10Kg if I was to guess.


Haha, I'd certainly hope that it's under 10 kg for just the frame and forks. ;)

Seriously though, 10 kg is a very good weight for a fully built road bike of that vintage. I'm usually pretty happy if they come in under 11 kg all up.

For just the frame and forks though, you're looking at about 3kg as a reasonably light weight. Some old steel frame/fork combos are as light as about 2.5 kg, but they are pretty special. Normally about 3kg to 3.5 kg (depends a bit on the frame size) is about the right ballpark for a reasonable frame/fork set.

zedries
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Re: New (Old) rebuild - looking for some build advice

Postby zedries » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:03 pm

uart wrote:
zedries wrote:I'd say under 10Kg if I was to guess.


Haha, I'd certainly hope that it's under 10 kg for just the frame and forks. ;)

Seriously though, 10 kg is a very good weight for a fully built road bike of that vintage. I'm usually pretty happy if they come in under 11 kg all up.

For just the frame and forks though, you're looking at about 3kg as a reasonably light weight. Some old steel frame/fork combos are as light as about 2.5 kg, but they are pretty special. Normally about 3kg to 3.5 kg (depends a bit on the frame size) is about the right ballpark for a reasonable frame/fork set.



Ha ha - can you tell I'm a noob with the older bikes?

Thanks for the info. Now I'm keen to find out exactly what it is. the weekend is near!

zedries
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Re: New (Old) rebuild - looking for some build advice

Postby zedries » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:50 am

Probably time I updated this thread. - Been a little busy training and haven't had time to work on this beast as much as I would like.

Been getting a few bits and pieces together including this pair of centre pull brakes. Haven't test fitted hem ye but will do shortly and hopefully all is well and wih some new pads and a clean up they will be good to go:

Image

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10speedsemiracer
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Re: New (Old) rebuild - looking for some build advice

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:07 pm

zedries wrote:Probably time I updated this thread. - Been a little busy training and haven't had time to work on this beast as much as I would like.

Been getting a few bits and pieces together including this pair of centre pull brakes. Haven't test fitted hem ye but will do shortly and hopefully all is well and wih some new pads and a clean up they will be good to go:

Image


Ah memories, not all good, but still..memories. Had this exact pair of brakes on a Raleigh in the late 70s. To set them up properly you will need something like the Park Tool 4th hand cable stretcher although they are expensive. SuperB make a copy :

Image

which is much, much cheaper ($18 vs $50+) although I haven't used it to compare. The Park Tool unit is excellent and I use it on all brakes now, it just makes the process easier and more precise.

https://www.pushys.com.au/super-b-inner-cable-puller.html

Lastly, swap the Weinmann style pads for KoolStop Salmon pads, if you're interested in not bouncing off things. Hope you got the cable hangers/stops for the centre-pulls as well. Can be a pain sourcing them otherwise. I think Abbotsford Cycles carry some.

Good luck with the build, keep us updated.
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Thoglette
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Re: New (Old) rebuild - looking for some build advice

Postby Thoglette » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:22 pm

10speedsemiracer wrote:Ah memories, not all good, but still..memories. Had this exact pair of brakes on a Raleigh in the late 70s. To set them up properly you will need something like the Park Tool 4th hand cable stretcher although they are expensive. SuperB make a copy :

He-who-must-not-be-named flogs ... no, he doesn't. Scratch that.

Have a look around and see if you can find some thinner (shifter thickness) straddle cables, which should improve the braking (as you're not wasting effort bending the cable). If not, prebend the cable to match your straddle cable hanger. Thin cable works well on the roller hangers, thick not so well but still better than traditional hook style hangers.

10speedsemiracer wrote:Lastly, swap the Weinmann style pads for KoolStop Salmon pads,.

+1
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zedries
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Re: New (Old) rebuild - looking for some build advice

Postby zedries » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:29 pm

Thanks very much - I have fitted something similar before so I should be able to manage without the tool.

I do have the cable hangers too and will definitely be ordering new pads. Many people have suggested the Koolstop Salmon pads so I will look into it.

Watch this space.

Z

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Re: New (Old) rebuild - looking for some build advice

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:16 pm

Thoglette wrote:
He-who-must-not-be-named flogs ... no, he doesn't. Scratch that.



Good pickup re the thinner straddles, I'd forgotten about that.
Only thing is, I couldn't figure out the quoted comment...(?) What did I miss ? Voldemort rode a Raleigh with Centre-pulls?
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Thoglette
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Re: New (Old) rebuild - looking for some build advice

Postby Thoglette » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:20 pm

10speedsemiracer wrote:Only thing is, I couldn't figure out the quoted comment...(?) What did I miss ? Voldemort rode a Raleigh with Centre-pulls?

It seems that certain people have an allergic reaction to hearing the name of the owner of Compass Cycles. However, like Velo-Orange, Harris Cycling and Yellow Jersey they have Useful Stuff for new (old) builds
Last edited by Thoglette on Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New (Old) rebuild - looking for some build advice

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:23 pm

Thoglette wrote:
10speedsemiracer wrote:Only thing is, I couldn't figure out the quoted comment...(?) What did I miss ? Voldemort rode a Raleigh with Centre-pulls?

It seems that certain people have an allergic reaction to hearing the name of the owner of Compass Cycles.


Ooohh, that muppet..

Thanks for clearing that up. I was lost.
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Re: New (Old) rebuild - looking for some build advice

Postby Thoglette » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:58 pm

uart wrote:For just the frame and forks though, you're looking at about 3kg as a reasonably light weight. Some old steel frame/fork combos are as light as about 2.5 kg, but they are pretty special.


Yes and no. Yes that most are around 3kg.

But 1.5kg is not unheard of for a steel frame (e.g. Waterford R33) and talking to "old timers" a sub 18lb build was commonly done "back in the day". Now of course you can build a complete CRP bike under 3.5kg so it's all relative.

Update: 3kg is the new "overweight"
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Re: New (Old) rebuild - looking for some build advice

Postby singlespeedscott » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:21 am

Nothing wrong with the Weinmann brakes, I find them to be some of the best brakes for modulation and I have no issues with stopping on high speed descent at all. Plus they swallow fat tyres and mudguards with ease.

The problem back in the day is the crappy brake pads and the usually associated steel rims that went with them. I run Shimano Ultegra cartridge brake pads on mine, cheaper than Kool Stop. You will need to use a washer behind the lock nut on the pad due to the thinner pad mounting point. The advantage with the Ultegra pads, besides the better braking material, is that they allow you to get the toe in just right. This greatly improves braking power and stops the dreaded howl that is associated with the old skool block pads.

You dont need to change the hanger cable as its the right length for the job. Plus it may be difficult to replicate the cable ends.
Image

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Re: New (Old) rebuild - looking for some build advice

Postby LG » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:39 am

Just wondering if anybody has a source for the double ended straddle cables for the weinmann? I've got some so badly rusted they're likely to break and don't have spares.
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Re: New (Old) rebuild - looking for some build advice

Postby WyvernRH » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:31 pm

LG wrote:Just wondering if anybody has a source for the double ended straddle cables for the weinmann? I've got some so badly rusted they're likely to break and don't have spares.


You can use a standard MTB brake cable and a screw-up solderless barrel nipple of the right size for the other end. If you want can even soft solder the solderless nipple if ou want to be really safe :) SJS Cycles and RetroBike in the UK sell them but they are commonly available from various web sources and engineering supplies places.

Image

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/cables/solderless-barrel-nipple-55-mm-x-7-mm/?geoc=AU

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Re: New (Old) rebuild - looking for some build advice

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:38 pm

LG wrote:Just wondering if anybody has a source for the double ended straddle cables for the weinmann? I've got some so badly rusted they're likely to break and don't have spares.


I think Moruya Cycles still carries :

http://www.moruyabicycles.com.au/contents/en-uk/d203_brake-cable.html

or FleaBay...
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Re: New (Old) rebuild - looking for some build advice

Postby LG » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:10 pm

Thanks I tried ebay about a month ago and could only find US sellers and postage was a killer. Moruya don't have them listed, only the single ended shimano. I'll try Richard's suggestion with the screw on nipple thing, and keep an eye out for scrap bikes for salvage. The Mafac system is great by comparison with the gear cable end on one arm and clamp on the other arm,
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Re: New (Old) rebuild - looking for some build advice

Postby Thoglette » Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:16 pm

Velo Orange have a DiaCompe one for $2.

You'd need to check the length, of course.

On postage, you should be able to find a few people hereabouts willing to share postage costs.
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Re: New (Old) rebuild - looking for some build advice

Postby Derny Driver » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:13 pm

Thoglette wrote:Velo Orange have a DiaCompe one for $2.

You'd need to check the length, of course.

On postage, you should be able to find a few people hereabouts willing to share postage costs.

Count me in if anyone is ordering. They have lots of great stuff.

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Re: New (Old) rebuild - looking for some build advice

Postby LG » Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:25 pm

Well if anyone's interested in a VO order I can arrange if you wish. I had a look last night and have around $20 worth of stuff to include
LG = Low Gear

zedries
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Re: New (Old) rebuild - looking for some build advice

Postby zedries » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:48 pm

I'm in too I suspect. Wouldn't mind getting some new cables although I haven't had the chance to properly inspect the ones which came with the brakes.

I did manage to get some other parts from Moruya Cycles including the cable bridge. Top people to deal with.

I'm in Sydney if there is a buy happening.

Loving all the conversation people - Feel like I'm getting smarter by osmosis.

Z

zedries
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Re: New (Old) rebuild - looking for some build advice

Postby zedries » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:52 pm

singlespeedscott wrote:Nothing wrong with the Weinmann brakes, I find them to be some of the best brakes for modulation and I have no issues with stopping on high speed descent at all. Plus they swallow fat tyres and mudguards with ease.

The problem back in the day is the crappy brake pads and the usually associated steel rims that went with them. I run Shimano Ultegra cartridge brake pads on mine, cheaper than Kool Stop. You will need to use a washer behind the lock nut on the pad due to the thinner pad mounting point. The advantage with the Ultegra pads, besides the better braking material, is that they allow you to get the toe in just right. This greatly improves braking power and stops the dreaded howl that is associated with the old skool block pads.

You dont need to change the hanger cable as its the right length for the job. Plus it may be difficult to replicate the cable ends.


Right - I guess I should really double check the hanger cable then.

I have some pads sitting around from spare callipers from my road bikes including ultegra and other shimano bits so I might line them up and see how they sit before I splash out on new fancy pads. I have some old school looking aluminium rims at the ready so only time will tell on this little gem.

I'll keep you all updated next week.

Got a triathlon in Newcastle this weekend so will be trying to stay afloat and not pass out from my terrible swim fitness.

Z

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Re: New (Old) rebuild - looking for some build advice

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:27 pm

The other option for the centre-pulls is good quality MTB pads, which provide a slightly larger braking contact patch, if you don't want to spend the $s on KoolStop. I've done this, and have also tried it on some DiaCompe 1970s side-pulls. Makes a difference, just an incremental one though.

Or you could go nuts and fit the KoolStop Salmon MTB pad :

Image

Which I haven't tried but can imagine would work very well. I did it with both Jagwire pads (ok) and Shimano Deore pads (better).
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Re: New (Old) rebuild - looking for some build advice

Postby singlespeedscott » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:27 pm

The MTB pads tend to howl under light braking.
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Re: New (Old) rebuild - looking for some build advice

Postby find_bruce » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:34 pm

singlespeedscott wrote:The MTB pads tend to howl under light braking.

Which makes them much more effective than a bell :twisted:

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Re: New (Old) rebuild - looking for some build advice

Postby singlespeedscott » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:45 pm

They work, but no better than road pads. Which have the added bonus of being noise free.
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